2002 F-250 7.3L diesel.. good, bad, ugly

[rideair]

Two are sitting in my driveway, 2000 CC 4x4, 8' bed, bullbar and lift gate. 2002 Excusion 4x4, Eddie model. Both have over 300,000 miles on them (yeh, we like to drive) no what I would call major issues, just standard stuff for anything with that many miles (water pump, alt., ball joints, one turbo, etc....) we live on a dirt road so rough driving is standard for us. Have used both to pull from VA-FL-MO-MA-IL and everything in between many of times. Tire to run would be the LTX's we also get about 70k out of ours. Currently have a Stiction issue on the Excursion, trying to clear it up via Hotshot which seems to be working.

Bought the truck in Sept. 1999, Excursion Feb 2003, when the engines finally die, a long block will go in in the hope they will last until I won't care anymore.

Enjoy,

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by oldfulltimer

Carl,

Forgot to mention that my F-350, 7.3 has a 4:10 rear end and is not a 4X4. Figured that with all the travel we would do as full timers, the one MPG probable difference between the 2X4 and 4X4 would add up in several year. When not towing, we got about 17 MPG but that was with a full load in the eight foot bed as that was my basement and garage. Truck weighed in at about 8000 pounds. Ran Michelins on truck and would get about 70,000 on a set. Also ran Amsoil in the engine, tranny and rear end.

My friend who had an F-350 gas job, non-dually, also towing a 34 footer would get 9 MPG on a good day with a tail wind and about 8 normally. Not sure what he got when not towing but it certainly was quieter in the cab.

Hope this helps you.

thanks for the info..

Not sure why but for the most part the ones i see for sale are crew cab and 4x4 model. Trying to find a 2 wheel drive, super cab or extended cab model is like finding hens teeth.

When running the amsoil did you do extended fill schedule or regular.

my buddy was saying he gets 12-15 towing an SOB 29fter and 20ish depending on his foot non towing.

I was reading on the ford diesel forum and see a lot of "things" to look for on trucks..

So, when looking at a used unit, what are the main things you guys have seen as issues, especially with units that are somewhat higher mileage say over 150K.

I was seeing stuff with steering box, ball joints, turbo leaks, transmissions etc. What issues are you seeing with you now older units..

thanks for all the input. it helps make the process of buying a used (diesel) truck a bit less daunting.

[msmcv51]

Last summer I sold a F150 crew cab, It got 11mpg towing and 17mpg empty highway. Bought a F250 6.8 V10 with a 4.10 gear, it get 10 mpg towing and 15 empty highway. The F150 had a K&N air system to get its Mpg which was a 10% increase. The mpg for the F250 was last summer before putting on a K&N air system, if it gives 10% increase it will about equal the F150


With all that said, I have found that it seems that with the lower cost of gas and oil changes that the cost per mile is less with the gas engine. I am not even including the higher initial cost of the diesel.


Now maybe my V10 is not as powerful as the diesels, but it does a very good job at the speeds that I drive. It does the job at an all around lower cost. Finally, let me say that I take to the road to have a good time, not to make good time!!!

[pappy19]

I have a 2008 F-250 with the V-10 and 4.10 gears. I can stay with all diesels except for the latest versions, but my maintenance costs are way less than a diesel as is the initial cost. Not to mention the extra cost of diesel fuel. But we are not here to argue the aspects of diesel vs gas rigs. The fellow is interested in knowing more about a '96 Ford 7.3. That is a very good diesel engine with very few engine issues. As is with all diesels, the fuel must be very pure and filtered very well or by by injectors, a big number to replace. Also, turbo's wear out, inter-cooler ducts wear out and fail, coolant must be changed regularly or you will get cavitation and cylinder failure, weak tranny that needs help. All that being said, that year of Ford was unbeatable compared to the other species, Chevy and Dodge, and the Ford had much less problems and a lot of power. I had one and it was a great ruck as was my 2002 7.3, but the very best truck I have ever owned is the one I own now, my V-10.


Also, a question was asked regarding Amsoil and long term use without changing the oil; I would not recommend that at all. You are way better off using good dino oil, not synthetic, and regular oil changing. Many users of Amsoil have wound up with mega iron problems after long term use and high mile oil changes. If you are interested in engine oils, go to www.bobistheoilguy.com web site and learn all there is to know about engine oils.

[carl2591]

that brings up the what is normal mileage between oil change question. I believe i read somewhere it was 7500 non towing or 5000 with towing.

not sure what is correct.

how about the fuel and water separator filers.. when should they be changed??

how about trans and rear end grease..

thanks to all with input.

PS:: pappy what kind if tongue weight with the slide. ??

[excellaf350]

The 99-03 7.3 PSD is one of the most sought after diesels for a reason. They were strong, reliable and fairly fuel efficient. When Ford went to the 6.0 they did it for emissions. The 7.3 just couldn't meet the newer emissions requirements. it had to be a smaller displacement engine. Unfortunately the international 6.0L was a giant disaster. There are plenty of people out there who had them with pretty good luck. Mostly private personal vehicles. In the world of fleets this motor almost bankrupted a lot of people. and still continues to do so today.


I had an 04 6.0 for my work truck in a F450. It finally dies at 237k with a blown head gasket. Over the life of the vehicle we spent $58k in repairs and almost all were engine related. Personally I wouldn't touch a 6.0L if you gave it to me for free. Sad part is the truck itself was pretty nice.


When I started my search for a tow vehicle I strictly searched for a 7.3, anything 08 or newer was just too expensive. I bought an 03 F350 srw, ccsb, 4x2/ Only had 35,000 miles on it. I just rolled it over to 42,000 miles last week. The truck is HD enough to haul me, the wife, the kids, the gear and my 29' Excella where ever I want. Set the cruise at 70 and she doesn't even come out of gear on a 5% grade. In stock form its a great platform and will pull anything AS makes. The weak point of that truck is the 4R100 trans for sure. Keep the fluid changed on a regular basis and don't beat on it. Drive it like a normal vehicle and it will treat you just fine. My bro just sold his with 170k on it original trans still going strong. I have one at work with 240k still original trans. So its possible just not the norm.


Flat level towing I can see 14 mpg at 65. But generally in the 12 to 13 range. The biggest prob I have is the small 29 gal tank. Before a trip I will stop and stuff fuel into the tank till its filled all the way up the fill neck. I can fit an extra 6.2 gal of fuel in this way. Doesn't seem like much but its an extra 75 miles.


I love the 7.3 and will hang on to it. Especially cause of the mileage. They are out there with low miles but you will pay for it. I paid $20,500 for mine it needed batteries, a starter and glow plug work, and a set of tires. Wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

[excellaf350]

Originally Posted by carl2591

that brings up the what is normal mileage between oil change question. I believe i read somewhere it was 7500 non towing or 5000 with towing.

not sure what is correct.

how about the fuel and water separator filers.. when should they be changed??

how about trans and rear end grease..

thanks to all with input.

PS:: pappy what kind if tongue weight with the slide. ??

oil every 5000 is the way to go. Anything with a HUEI system will benefit from clean oil. I work for a Cat dealer and have access to load of oil so I do mine every 2000 or so. Fuel filter every other oil change, trans every 25k, front and or rear dif every 50k. Its on the early side but I'm a big believer of rather do it early than late. Just use quality fluids. what ever your are comfortable with. I use Mobil 15w40, Mobil synthetic in the rear dif and semi synthetic in the trans. Be careful with the trans Ford spec I think was Merc III and book said DO NOT use Merc V but they stopped making Merc III and now Merc V is acceptable. Its been reformulated to be backwards compatible. Just don't use Merc SP its an instant trans killer in the 4r100

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by carl2591

that brings up the what is normal mileage between oil change question. I believe i read somewhere it was 7500 non towing or 5000 with towing.

not sure what is correct.

how about the fuel and water separator filers.. when should they be changed??

how about trans and rear end grease..

thanks to all with input.

PS:: pappy what kind if tongue weight with the slide. ??

I change oil at 5k, fuel and air at 10k, no separate water filter that I am aware of, I just open the tap up at every oil change and drain a cup or so off, or when the light comes on. Trans was getting done annually ~25-30k miles. Rear end... don't remember. Need to check the antifreeze a couple of times a year to make sure it has enough additives in it. I was putting a booster bottle in about every 15,000 miles. Got the test kit and the booster stuff from one of the fleet service places along with Standyne fuel additive.

Aaron

[pappy19]

Originally Posted by carl2591

that brings up the what is normal mileage between oil change question. I believe i read somewhere it was 7500 non towing or 5000 with towing.

not sure what is correct.

how about the fuel and water separator filers.. when should they be changed??

how about trans and rear end grease..

thanks to all with input.

PS:: pappy what kind if tongue weight with the slide. ??

I am good with 3-4,000 mile oil changes and I use the cheapest dino oil from Chevron, Delvac, used to be called Delo 400. There isn't a rougher service on a diesel engine that is a logging truck. Most all use Chevron Delvac. Diesel fuel filter are usually good for 10-15k. Tranny every 25K and add another tranny cooler for $100. My tongue weight is about 1100 and my AS weighs in at 10,800. My truck with all my crapola including my 47 gallon tank, weighs 8400.

[pappy19]

Originally Posted by carl2591

thanks for the info..

Not sure why but for the most part the ones i see for sale are crew cab and 4x4 model. Trying to find a 2 wheel drive, super cab or extended cab model is like finding hens teeth.

When running the amsoil did you do extended fill schedule or regular.

my buddy was saying he gets 12-15 towing an SOB 29fter and 20ish depending on his foot non towing.

I was reading on the ford diesel forum and see a lot of "things" to look for on trucks..

So, when looking at a used unit, what are the main things you guys have seen as issues, especially with units that are somewhat higher mileage say over 150K.

I was seeing stuff with steering box, ball joints, turbo leaks, transmissions etc. What issues are you seeing with you now older units..

thanks for all the input. it helps make the process of buying a used (diesel) truck a bit less daunting.

Under no circumstances should you consider a Ford diesel made from 2003-2011. Way too many problems with the engine. Any 7.3 or the newer 6.7 are both very well designed diesel engines. The oldest 7.3 is in the 1994-1996 trucks and are excellent tow trucks, but as all truck require maintenance, these do too. The 1999-2003 7.3's were the boss trucks in their day and are still a great truck. Finding one that is for sale that hasn't been beat to crap, is another story. Most folks that have a good one, don't sell it. Even with the weak auto tranny, the 7.3 can be fixed and last a long time. All diesels have their quirks and problems, including the Cummins and the Chevy's, but the 7.3 had the least problems of them all. If the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 had been anywhere close to the 7.3, the other 2 species would have bit the weenie. Dodge and Chevy can thank the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 for all of their diesel success in sales.

[SuperTrouper]

I bought a 2002 EX with 195K on the clock and all maintenance records. Looks like they replaced the turbo and front hubs at some point. Tranny is original. I installed a DP Tuner chip (towing 80HP plus 5 other tunes including engine brake which closes the exhaust back pressure valve) plus Pyro and tranny temp gauges. I found the 80HP towing tune to make a tremendous difference in power and response of the engine. You need to watch the Pyro when putting your foot in it though. You can breach 1200 degrees in EGTs quick and start pumping coal soot out the pipe on big grades. The Ex is Running great at 233K now. No oil leaks or burning. I had to put heavy duty bendix brakes and rotors on. R4100 tranny is running OK but drops the torque converter lock under 50 MPH. When it stars failing I plan to take it to John Woods Transmissions. He has a 1 day on location rebuild deal that make the tranny bulletproof for towing.

The downside of the 2002 EX as other have mentioned is the limited turning radius (leaf springs) and sheer size of the vehicle. When backing up in a parking lot I often feel that I should toot the horn 3 times to let others know that I'm leaving port. One thing I always do now when towing is see a way OUT of a parking lot before going IN. My main reason for the EX was the 7.3 and space for our family of 6 plus gear. Also LOVE the 44 gal tank.

Brad

[carl2591]

I wanted to let you powerstroke guys know about a informative youtube channel i found that is put on by a guy in atlanta GA area.

powerstrokehelp - YouTube

in just watching several videos i found out a WHOLE lot of info. one i was watching

BUYER BEWARE FORD POWERSTROKE DIESEL - YouTube

called

BUYER BEWARE FORD POWERSTROKE DIESEL

it tells a sad story of a guy who thought he bought a 2001 7.3L with 85K mileage only to find out two years later when he found him self at Powerstroke Diesel, the motor had some 300K plus miles and how that can happen.


There is some much to learn about the trucks. I feel fortunate to have found not only airforums but this you-tube channel and website powerstrokehelp.com the guy is bill hewitt

[excellaf350]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Under no circumstances should you consider a Ford diesel made from 2003-2011. Way too many problems with the engine. Any 7.3 or the newer 6.7 are both very well designed diesel engines. The oldest 7.3 is in the 1994-1996 trucks and are excellent tow trucks, but as all truck require maintenance, these do too. The 1999-2003 7.3's were the boss trucks in their day and are still a great truck. Finding one that is for sale that hasn't been beat to crap, is another story. Most folks that have a good one, don't sell it. Even with the weak auto tranny, the 7.3 can be fixed and last a long time. All diesels have their quirks and problems, including the Cummins and the Chevy's, but the 7.3 had the least problems of them all. If the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 had been anywhere close to the 7.3, the other 2 species would have bit the weenie. Dodge and Chevy can thank the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 for all of their diesel success in sales.

couldn't agree more. Its a real shame the 6.0 was such a POS. When its running good they make great power and are pretty good on fuel. But the design flaws are so terrible that the this one lone engine has hurt ford truck sales probably forever. Im a GM guy by heart. the Duramax is a great engine regardless of the Ford failures the Duramax engine commands big money because they just don't break down. Couple it with the 6 speed Allison and you have a great truck.
The 6.4 was much better than the 6.0 but still had its issues. Mostly DPF related. I've heard that a DPF delete will fix most of the 6.4 issues but I have no first hand experience like I do with the 6.0 and 7.3.

Originally Posted by SuperTrouper

I bought a 2002 EX with 195K on the clock and all maintenance records. Looks like they replaced the turbo and front hubs at some point. Tranny is original. I installed a DP Tuner chip (towing 80HP plus 5 other tunes including engine brake which closes the exhaust back pressure valve) plus Pyro and tranny temp gauges. I found the 80HP towing tune to make a tremendous difference in power and response of the engine. You need to watch the Pyro when putting your foot in it though. You can breach 1200 degrees in EGTs quick and start pumping coal soot out the pipe on big grades. The Ex is Running great at 233K now. No oil leaks or burning. I had to put heavy duty bendix brakes and rotors on. R4100 tranny is running OK but drops the torque converter lock under 50 MPH. When it stars failing I plan to take it to John Woods Transmissions. He has a 1 day on location rebuild deal that make the tranny bulletproof for towing.

The downside of the 2002 EX as other have mentioned is the limited turning radius (leaf springs) and sheer size of the vehicle. When backing up in a parking lot I often feel that I should toot the horn 3 times to let others know that I'm leaving port. One thing I always do now when towing is see a way OUT of a parking lot before going IN. My main reason for the EX was the 7.3 and space for our family of 6 plus gear. Also LOVE the 44 gal tank.

Brad

I bought a 4x2 and the benefit is the coil spring front suspension. I get the better turning radious but the short bed only got a 29 gal tank. I really with I had that 44!!!

Originally Posted by carl2591

I wanted to let you powerstroke guys know about a informative youtube channel i found that is put on by a guy in atlanta GA area.

powerstrokehelp - YouTube

in just watching several videos i found out a WHOLE lot of info. one i was watching

called

BUYER BEWARE FORD POWERSTROKE DIESEL

it tells a sad story of a guy who thought he bought a 2001 7.3L with 85K mileage only to find out two years later when he found him self at Powerstroke Diesel, the motor had some 300K plus miles and how that can happen.


There is some much to learn about the trucks. I feel fortunate to have found not only airforums but this you-tube channel and website powerstrokehelp.com the guy is bill hewitt

Bill has been around for years. A lot of Ford fourm guys make fun of him but IMO he has a lot of knowledge on the Ford trucks. Either way you wouldn't get me in a 6.0. Put it this way, if the ambulance shows up out front of my house with the 6.0 in it to take me to the hospital... I'd take my chances walking.


I got a rare find in my 42,000 mile, 03' 7.3L. its original mileage for sure I can track it thru the registrations since it was new. Had it for 2 years not bought it with only 35k on the odo. I don't plan on giving it up any time soon.

[SuperTrouper]

Yeah I watched Bills videos before I bought my 7.3. He's a bit doofy but honest and gives information freely in hopes of helping others. There may be a little self promotion in there as well but it's all well intended.

[carl2591]

too funny about the ambulance with the 6.0 and walking.

I remembered him talking about guys getting the 6.0L trucks at auction for 6-7K and bringing to him for the upgrades of about 10K and selling them for 23K.. a 6k profit,, not bad.. the video was posted in 2012.

I can tell you I have learned more about the 7.3 than i think guys that have owned them for years know.

I did hear him say the 2006-7 model 6.0L was the best not needing a whole lot of upgrades. Plus i hear the transmission in that model is the best.

he is not all that far from me here in NC.. atlanta is some 8 hrs. wonder if i can find a good '07 6.0L and take it to him to upgrade.

[excellaf350]

having driven an 04 with the 6.0 for 240k miles, and having a fleet of over 50 trucks ranging from 03-07, I can tell you one thing... I don't care how much the truck costs if it has a 6.0l in it you wont find me buying it. I would consider it if it were free... maybe.


They make great power and sound bad ass but they cost a fortune to fix and break down a LOT. my company spent $58,000 in repairs to the truck over its life. figure 10k to 12k was breaks and tires and stuff... but the remaining $45k-$48k was spent under the hood. I lost track of injectors at least 2 dozen probably more. a turbo, aftercooler, 3 egr coolers, FICM, radiator, HEUI pump, oil cooler, the list goes on and on... And my truck was one of the good ones! We had some that were so bad they just paid Ford for a new engine at 100k just to get a warranty back on them. The later 06-07 trucks were definitely worse than the earlier 04-06's


My truck weighed in at just under 16,000 lbs and could haul a 7000 lb trailer at 75 like it wasn't even there. I'm not naïve, these were fleet trucks, and I drove mine like I stole it from day 1. But it was ALWAYS broke. We actually bought a spare truck and just left it at the dealer so we could have something while one of them was in the shop. it never failed the spare was being used and it would break. we needed like 3 spares sitting at the dealer for us. I was religious with oil changes and filter maintenance. Every 5k I stopped at the ford quick lane and get it done.


I wouldn't touch a 6.0L if it had diamonds dropping out the tail pipe. But to each his own. I do know people who have them and are relatively trouble free. All are personal trucks and have had some "bullet proofing" done. mainly head studs and egr delete.

[carl2591]

If it had diamonds coming out the tail pipe it might get one and use the diamond to get money for the upgrades needed to make it less a PIA.

Yeah on the 6.0L not a good buy unless a LOT of upgrades done.. another thing bill was talking about was the difference between 6.0 and 7.3 along with more bolts around cylinder on 7.3 was the valves..

The 7.3 has two larger heavy duty valves and the 6.0 has 4 lighter duty valves. after a bit of hard towing the 6.0 valves can get real hot and start to break down. i guess other than the new 6.7L engines its best to go with 7.3L

Here is my back of the napkin calc.. with a 7.3 getting 12-13 MPG towing and a gasser get 11-13 towing and the cost of diesel at .35 cent higher it does not make sense when you factor the 15qt oil at 5bucks a qt and if an injector goes out oh hell,, 300 buck for that min..

not sure i see the number working out on 2002 7.3L for 13k vs f-150 with 5.0 coyote motor with regular spark plugs for 13K.

In looking at the eco boost units the cost difference is appx 13K vs 2002 7.3L so the diesel might be a better deal going forward just need to keep up maintenance and use only motorcraft fuel filters, the patented ones.

So the debate rages on.. older diesel or newer gasser.. flip a coin???

[excellaf350]

I'm a diesel guy you will never convince me that a gasser is better ... But wether to go diesel or gas I think depends on what your planned use is.
How far, how often and how much will you tow? If you are planning a 6000 lb trailer with flat level towing one weekend a month and keeping it under 150 miles I say you can do gas just fine. Tell me you plan to do 3000 miles a month to the mountains and I will say your crazy to even think of a gasser.
pound for pound diesel has more BTU's of heat than gas. Thats a fact. More heat means more work, more work means easier for you to do it I think your napkin calculations are a bit off. With the right gear set up a 5.0L F150 will do it for sure. I think its a pipe dream to think you will get 13 mpg towing a 6000 lb trailer and your wife and kids in the truck. My educated guess will be more like 10.

Here are my first hand experiences. For work I use to have an F450 with the 6.0L diesel (5r110 trans). it weighed in at 15,800 lbs. I drove it hard and still got 9/10 mpg on the highway. I could toss one of our 6000 lb trailer on the back and it didnt give a hoot. Would cruise at 75 and not have to come out of OD to pull a hill. Fast forward to the present. We bought a new E450 with the triton 5.4L V8 (5r110 trans)and 4.56 gears. Its rated at 14,000 and weighs in at 13,900. Will she do 80? yeah... does she like it? hell no. Cruises at 3000 rpm on the highway and even the slightest hill its out of OD and screaming at 4200 rpm up the hill. I average a woping 6.5-7 mpg daily. And it is so far underpowered I can barely tow that 6000 lb trailer. Tow/haul mode is a must and it lives at 4000+. MPG drops to 5.

my little crew of airstreamers has 2 chevy diesels, 2 dodge and 2 ford diesels. and 1 1500 dodge with a hemi. The hemi guy is always teh first to scream over the CB that he is low on fuel and he has a hard time keeping up with the rest of us. Does he make it to the destination? sure... just no where near as easily as the rest of us. But he has fun and the kids love camping so we all do it and help out where ever we can.

[excellaf350]

anyway back to the original question. The 7.3 was and still is one of the best becasue the later 6.0 and 6.4 had sooo many issues. Had the 6.0 been a trouble free motor the 7.3 would have been left rotting away in the junkyards. The 6.0 made 75 more HP and 50 lb more tq with 20% less cubes.

any crew cab long bed truck is going to be a bear to park at the local grocery store. Get a short bed youll be better off. the older 99/03 had leaf springs with 4x4 this made the problem even worse and really killed the ride comfort. But it was the way it was done 14 years ago. Find yourself a 4x2 (like I did) and you get coil front end... smoth ride and great turning radious. Buy newer than 03 and you also get coils with 4x4. I wouldnt fear the v10 either as an option. Another awesome motor and a great truck that will pull.

GM and Dodge also have nice options but thats for another thread. Honestly cant believe I have said what I said cause im a GM guy at heart. I just couldnt find a qualitly duramax in my price range.

[RVDreamer]

I put over 200K miles on my 6.0 King Ranch. Never a problem. Only oil changes and new filters, tires, etc. No real expenses. I had great mileage and plenty of power.
Sometimes I think a lot of the complaints are blown out of proportion. Ford still is the top selling truck and the F-150 is the top selling vehicle period.
I now own a platinum 2013 F-250 super duty. I love it and couldn't be happier.