2 WD F150 Towing Stability Issue

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by njaspers

I traded my five month old '17 F150 Max Tow 3.5L CC 4x4 for an F250 last month in anticipation of March delivery of our 25RB Signature. I simply could not warm up to the F150. It felt like it was skating just driving down the road. The electric steering is too light and felt so artificial. I had to re-learn how to corner with its too quick snap back to center. Frankly, it reminded me of a 1976 twin I-beam, six cylinder F150 work truck that I drove three decades ago. It took me a long time to own a Ford after that lifeless steering experience. Ugh.

That's interesting. Our company fleet 2017 F150 handles like it's on rails.

[pteck]

I do find it interesting how many proponents of 2WD there are on the boards. I'll acknowledge the payload advantage. Part of the difference the OP might be feeling may be the difference between 2WD vs 4WD, something that specs sheets can't show. Steering heft/feel, and more axle weight on the front end.

I do agree with others that have mentioned tires. They can be a rather huge variable to stability under significant load. LT tires would be preferred in this respect.

I would highly recommend the OP check the alignment as well. New cars often settle after the first few thousands of miles. The alignment may be marginally in range when unloaded, but may be out of spec once loaded with WD applied, and riding 1/2" or so higher at the front axle.

For the naysayers saying a 1/2 ton can't handle a 27' AS? Seriously!? This is well within manufacturers specs. I know you know this, but choose your own layman interpretation and opinion.

[jcl]

I found it interesting that the OP added air bags. To what end?

Does the vehicle have a low payload, and it needed them to get closer to level? If so, that suggests checking tires and shocks as they would have been spec'd by the manufacturer for that low payload.

If the air shocks are being used in conjunction with the WD equipment, scale tickets will be required to ensure that sufficient weight is being returned to the front axle, as the air shocks can mask it by making the truck level when the real problem is a light front axle.

[xrvr]

If you added air bags either your truck is overloaded or yourhitch is out of afjustment. Also the tires on your new truck may nit be the same as the ones on your other truck. Get lt tires.

[LaBigDogs]

Towing our 2011 25fb, I have owned the 2011 F-250 4X4 and ditched it in 6 months because of overkill and poor handling and ride. Purchased the 2011 F-150 4X4 6.5 .... Flawless, smooth, solid feel. Replaced it with the 2013 F-150 4X4 6.5 bed this one had max tow and the axle ratio proved to be an overkill, however once again flawless. Replaced it with the 2015 F -150 4X4 6.5 bed and upgrade to the 2015 27fb (only 300 lbs more than our 25fb gross wt) once again flawless and a solid feel. All trucks above I replace the tires with stiffer sidewalls and larger tires. I also installed roadster active suspension. With about 38,000 miles logged across in the F-150 towing in the US and Canada I can say the F-150 is a beast. Never one problem with stability or sway, very sure footed. Now we have replaced our 2015 with the 2018 Ford F-150 4X4 6.5 bed with Max Tow. We now have a few thousand miles on it and ready to tow our 27fb. I installed the Roadmaster Active Suspension. I will tow with the original tires to check out the handling, I am thinking that the standard tires may work. Headed out next week on our 1st voyage with the 2018. Climbing and descending the highest mountains across the USA, crowded freeways or back roads the F-150 is the perfect match for our Airstrem it is solid, stable and smooth-N-fast! Love it! We are looking at the 2018 Classic and at it's gross wt of 10K we will still be about 30% below our max tow weight with the F150.

[jim6090]

Can't speak to the Ford issue. 2016 Ram 1500 with air suspension. 2017 30 Flying Cloud. Tried many setups and could not get comfortable until I sprung for a Pro-Pride hitch. Hardly know trailer is behind us. Without the Propride I would have traded for a 2500. Propride saved me a lot of money.

When I replaced tires with Michelin Defender 10 Ply. BUT I keep them at 50 lbs. Little stiffer ride, but made towing even better.

[ROBERT CROSS]

....get the hitch set up as close to full FA weight returned. Visit the scales, proper load distribution, proper TP etc.

Air bags or air suspension? P rated tires? pressures?

Bags do nothing but remove RE squat. They do nothing for payload or "improve" the way the suspension works.
Bushings, shocks, tires,(pressure)...yes.

Good Luck

BTW...do not get the PPP to 'fix' the problem....get the problem fixed first.

Bob

[Andrew T]

Hi Gmauger. Does your 150 have 18 or 20” tires? Brand & Model of tires?

If you want to be sure about your hitch setup I can send you a sheet that goes over how to fine tune it.

I do have some issues with the Equalizer brand and trying to keep them adjusted properly. The bars are so stiff that driving through a dip will tend to twist the receiver resulting in some loss of weight transfer.

Sending a picture of the setup is a big help as well. Andy

[LaBigDogs]

Page 36 of the 2018 RV & Trailer Towing Guide explains the set up for the F-150 Aluminum body for towing.

1 Load trailer similar to the way it will be loaded for the trip with 10% tongue load and park on level ground
2 Adjust trailer tongue jack to get trailer level or just slightly nose down
3 Load tow vehicle similar to the way it will be used for the trip and park vehicle on level ground
4 Adjust and secure weight distribution ball mount height per manfacturer’s
instructions so tow ball is the same height as trailer coupler when trailer not connected to tow vehicle
5 Measure top of front fender lip above the center of the wheel to ground
6 Record this value as “H1”
7 Connect trailer to tow ball with no weight distribution bars attached (make sure tongue jack is fully retracted)
8 Measure top of front fender lip above the center of the wheel to ground
9 Record this value as “H2”
10 Adjust weight distribution bars per manufacturer’s instructions to get tow vehicle top front of fender lip to “Target Height” and making sure trailer is level to slightly nose down
11 Complete coupler latching, electrical connections, safety chains and emergency braking system attachments

Weight Distribution Hitch Setup for the F-150 is "Weight Distribution Factor is 25%

[Andrew T]

Unfortunately that method does not give you stability at highway speeds. I tried everything to make it work without success.

What led to it was testing done with the ball too far out from the bumper, insufficient ball mount angle and weak hitch receivers.

Andy

[Profxd]

“What led to it was testing done with the ball too far out from the bumper, insufficient ball mount angle and weak hitch receivers. ”
This I completely agree with. WD hitch manufacturers put the pin hole in the shank 3 inches from back end. Vehicle manufacturers put the pin hole in the receiver to far forward, the shank is short of reaching through the receiver causing excessive play and flex. The easy solution is to drill a new hole in the shank allowing it to be inserted further.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Profxd

“What led to it was testing done with the ball too far out from the bumper, insufficient ball mount angle and weak hitch receivers. ”
This I completely agree with. WD hitch manufacturers put the pin hole in the shank 3 inches from back end. Vehicle manufacturers put the pin hole in the receiver to far forward, the shank is short of reaching through the receiver causing excessive play and flex. The easy solution is to drill a new hole in the shank allowing it to be inserted further.

This only addresses the issue of the manufacturer’s shank, which is easily replaceable. It doesn’t touch on the ball mount angle or weak hitch receiver, both of which are within the tow vehicle manufacturer’s full control.

The real issue IMO is that some believe that the manufacturer’s recommendation for front axle load restoration is based on it being optimum for safety and handling, as “they are the manufacturer and know best” instead of it being set too low due to poor attention to detail and the specifying of undersized receivers.

[ROBERT CROSS]

OSFA does not apply to all at any time....we need that 3in for the TowTector.

I don't find it hard to rationalize less damage all the time.

Bob

[Profxd]

Originally Posted by jcl

This only addresses the issue of the manufacturer’s shank, which is easily replaceable. It doesn’t touch on the ball mount angle or weak hitch receiver, both of which are within the tow vehicle manufacturer’s full control.

The real issue IMO is that some believe that the manufacturer’s recommendation for front axle load restoration is based on it being optimum for safety and handling, as “they are the manufacturer and know best” instead of it being set too low due to poor attention to detail and the specifying of undersized receivers.

If you insert the shank the full length of the receiver, it makes a more solid connection transferring weight with less receiver flex. Your reducing the length of the rear overhang which is a always a good thing. If inserting the shank fully through the receiver reduces vertical play then yes it does address the angle problem. This will reduce the amount of head tilt required to achieve the same amount if WD.

The reason for reducing FALR is an attempt to keep a balance between restoring grip on the front axle and transferring too weight off the rear with WD reducing the understeer gradient. Ford’s recommendation of only 25% on the f150 is odd, the truck will sag a large amount especially with larger tongue weights. They supposedly performed the SAE test like this and are compliant which is hard to believe. The consumer isn’t happy with sag so they crank up the WD to get level or closer to it. This unloads the rear overload spring which leaves a relatively large amount of weight suspended by the softer top part of the spring and less lateral support. If they’re lucky the trailer is well designed/loaded and balanced with proper CG and low yaw inertia so it tows well without issue. Others are not so lucky and end up a poor towing combination.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Profxd

The reason for reducing FALR is an attempt to keep a balance between restoring grip on the front axle and transferring too weight off the rear with WD reducing the understeer gradient.

I would have said that the reason for reducing FALR is an attempt to prevent the receiver from bending.

It is possible to have 100% FALR and a significant percentage of the tongue weight still on the rear axle (all of the tongue weight less the portion carried by the trailer axles). If the primary concern is the understeer gradient, then imagine how unsafe the truck must be when not hitched or loaded.

When an SUV has a lighter duty hitch that gets reinforced to handle the forces involved in a proper WD setup, it gets used on here as a reason that the SUV is an inappropriate tow vehicle.

When a pickup truck has a lighter duty hitch that would bend if not reinforced, apparently it is a design feature.

[Profxd]

Originally Posted by jcl

I would have said that the reason for reducing FALR is an attempt to prevent the receiver from bending.

It is possible to have 100% FALR and a significant percentage of the tongue weight still on the rear axle (all of the tongue weight less the portion carried by the trailer axles). If the primary concern is the understeer gradient, then imagine how unsafe the truck must be when not hitched or loaded.

When an SUV has a lighter duty hitch that gets reinforced to handle the forces involved in a proper WD setup, it gets used on here as a reason that the SUV is an inappropriate tow vehicle.

When a pickup truck has a lighter duty hitch that would bend if not reinforced, apparently it is a design feature.

I won’t disagree that some factory hitches are truly crap. A vehicle from the factory should have the appropriate amount understeer built in by design. It is a fact that adding WD to a tow rig will reduce the understeer gradient. Here’s the dilemma. Increasing hitch weight improves sway stability of the trailer, in contrast adding hitch weight to the tow vehicle reduces the understeer gradient. No WD and the front axle loses grip, add to much WD there’s not enough grip on the rear to hold off the lateral forces of the remaining weight while cornering. They attempt to find the balance but to say that the value of 50% or 25% FALR will work in all trailer combinations for a given vehicle is obviously a stretch.

[LaBigDogs]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Unfortunately that method does not give you stability at highway speeds. I tried everything to make it work without success.

What led to it was testing done with the ball too far out from the bumper, insufficient ball mount angle and weak hitch receivers.

Andy

Andy, I am a bit scared to use WD as I have traveled over 38K miles with no incidents just free balling. I never had sway, traveled most of the time at 75mph with cross winds up to 70 mph all no problem, very stable. Moving into this WD thing is scary! We are looking to moving up to the 2018 Classic 31, so WD is in our future for sure.

[ROBERT CROSS]

[QUOTE=Profxd;2038504]If you insert the shank the full length of the receiver, it makes a more solid connection transferring weight with less receiver flex. Your reducing the length of the rear overhang which is a always a good thing. If inserting the shank fully through the receiver reduces vertical play then yes it does address the angle problem. This will reduce the amount of head tilt required to achieve the same amount if WD.

You can achieve the same results with an improved design for the receiver.
In our case the longer mount, (moment), arms of the Reese over the OEM, improved WD performance without the need for higher rated WD bars.



The length of the haha stinger has never been a hindrance in transferring all but 100lbs to the frt suspension, a hitched receiver weight of 860lbs with WD set, and an unhitched TW of 1200lbs.

Bob

[Andrew T]

Originally Posted by LaBigDogs

Andy, I am a bit scared to use WD as I have traveled over 38K miles with no incidents just free balling. I never had sway, traveled most of the time at 75mph with cross winds up to 70 mph all no problem, very stable. Moving into this WD thing is scary! We are looking to moving up to the 2018 Classic 31, so WD is in our future for sure.

I would not be afraid of it, setting up a weight distribution though rarely done properly is not rocket science.

Your current combination likely isn’t nearly as stable as you think it is. Sometimes towing on the ball can feel ok but there is very little depth of control to handle the unexpected.

If you like send me an email. andy@canamrv.ca and I can send you a a couple of sheets on how to set it up correctly.

Andy

[J. Morgan]

Slick feeling is kind of vague. It could mean too little weight on the back axle, allowing the rear of the tow vehicle to walk.

In answer to another part of the original question, a ProPride or a Hensley will help any combination, in my humble opinion of course.

For those saying a half ton is the problem, the OP traded a 1/2 ton that did fine in his estimation for another that does not feel right. Again, in my humble opinion, he has a setup issue that needs addressed. All of my half ton tow vehicles tow my trailer like it is on rails. No white knuckles here, I am comfortable with one hand on the wheel.