1/2 Ton differences-No brand loyalty allowed

[m.hony]

I think all of them have 8 or more airbags.
I won't get rid of a paid for truck for a 5 mpg fuel economy increase.
How much gas can I buy for $35,000-$70,000?
I can just keep getting 15 mpg empty and 12 mpg towing compared to maybe getting 20 mpg empty and 15 mpg towing.

[hapsam]

After watching the video in the link posted by Clydecrashcu, it would seem to me that I would prefer the Chevy truck with the cooler brakes after the descent to the Ford with the hotter brakes after the descent. The Ford did handle the climb a little better and faster but I would think the cooler brakes on the Chevy are less likely to fail on a long descent. Thoughts?

Also, does any one here have first hand experience towing at 25 ft Airstream with a Chevy 5.3 liter V-8 in the mountains that could comment on that experience?

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by hapsam

After watching the video in the link posted by Clydecrashcu, it would seem to me that I would prefer the Chevy truck with the cooler brakes after the descent to the Ford with the hotter brakes after the descent. The Ford did handle the climb a little better and faster but I would think the cooler brakes on the Chevy are less likely to fail on a long descent. Thoughts?

Also, does any one here have first hand experience towing at 25 ft Airstream with a Chevy 5.3 liter V-8 in the mountains that could comment on that experience?

I think you already have an idea.

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by hapsam

Also, does any one here have first hand experience towing at 25 ft Airstream with a Chevy 5.3 liter V-8 in the mountains that could comment on that experience?

We pulled our 25' FC through the TN mountains last summer with a 2015 Chevy 5.3L V8 and we were very happy with the performance - both up and down those mountains.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

It seems that GM manages to match or beat Ford payload so aluminum should not be a big factor, except for maybe mpg. The 10-spd is probably a big advance, when it happens. The big political question is what will happen with engines. Some are fine with turbos and, as above, indicate that altitude has less of an impact with forced induction. I have forced induction in my cars, supercharging, but have never been a fan for my "work" truck. For years GM said drum brakes on the rear are good enough, but it seems that Ford forced them to discs, fine. So what about a 6+ liter naturally-aspirated engine? Dinosaur or workhorse?

Larry

Its both :-)

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by spclkaz

Back in 1999, my GMC was built in Canada. It did not seem to matter back then... today, for those who want to buy American made... maybe the Ford is the best choice...

"...Industry analysts estimate that one-third of G.M.’s annual pickup production comes from its sprawling assembly plant in Silao, Mexico. And while Fiat Chrysler is expanding its American output of trucks, it still relies on its factory in Saltillo, Mexico, for 30 to 40 percent of its pickups, the analysts say.

Ford, by contrast, makes its pickups at three plants in the United States."

...just sayin"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/b...o-pickups.html

Per WSJ numbers: 40% of GM/CHEV trucks are manufactured in Mexico and imported duty free to the U.S.. All RAM 2500 and 3500 trucks are made in Mexico as well and again imported duty free.
This does give both and advantage in pricing.
Last September as I began shopping for a 2500 I was offered $ 11,000.00 discount on a Ram without even pushing hard.

[DC Bruce]

Owner of a '15 GMC 1500 SLT with 6.2 engine and max trailer tow package. Now over 50k miles on my truck, at least 35k pulling an FC 27. Other than fluid changes per the manual and maintenance minder, no other repairs, malfunctions or trouble. This truck has a lot of options I would not pay for (lane departure, anti collision) but does not have adaptive cruise control. The engine is more than adequate for any climbing situation (8-speed), including high altitude and rarely exceeds 2500 rpm, cruises in rolling country at 1750 rpm @60 in 7th gear in tow/haul mode. I have never gotten the brakes hot enough so they smell. Engine braking is probably better than the Ecoboost ((displacement matters), not as good as the big diesels with exhaust brakes; don't know about Ram's little 3-liter diesel in the 1500. This includes 8- months full timing, two cross country trips, lots of time in the mountains and going places you're not supposed to go (California's "Lost Coast"). My only gripe is that the head lights are piss-poor. Hard to tell the difference between high and low beams.

[Bgibbs]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but the GM G80 Eaton locking differential is a real plus in less than ideal conditions. Much better than limited-slip.

[DC Bruce]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

5. Ford F-150 Eccobost Outperforms all naturally-aspirited engines at

altitudes. So does the Ram Ecodiesel.

6. Ford F-150 Crew cab has flat open rear floor area great for dogs and

stuff.

GMC/Chevy also has flat floor in crew cab models. We have a big dog, and that was one of our purchase criteria.

RAM Ecodiesel outperforms all normally aspirated gas engines at altitude? Nonsense. The ED engine is rated at 240 HP. The GM 6.2 engine is rated at 420. Sure, the normally aspirated 6.2 loses some power at altitude but not 40%. Watch fast lane truck's Ike gauntlet rowing tests. The ED more or less gets 7000 lbs up the hill; the GM 6.2 does fine pulling 9000 lbs. Admittedly the newest Ford 3.5 Ecoboost has power to spare pulling 9000 lbs. at high altitude. So, if you want to pull a 10,000 lb. GVW Airstream Classic 30 over the top of the Rockies, the Ford Ecoboost would be your motor. But with that much weight behind me, I'd be using a diesel 3/4 ton.

[DC Bruce]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

Kinda surprised no one has mentioned safety features (other than mirrors.) Airbags all around are a must for me. Driver Assist programs are also useful. Most Blind Spot systems disengage as soon as you trailer, but are useful for daily driving. Anti-Sway and Stability control, including Crosswind Assist are useful in all situations. Lane Keeping too!



I know very little of the others, but my Chevy High Country does have a Heads Up display Brake Alert (not auto brake), and Lane Keeping Assist, the latter of which will actually steer you back into the lane and prevents road run off. This can potentially save you from losing control as well as prevent you from sustaining significant damage to your trailer. I believe it also has anti-sway compensation.



Lastly, My LED headlamps (not just driving lights) are tops! What a difference they make.

I have a '15 GMC with all that stuff (which I got stuck with in order to get my preferred payload/engine combination). The brake alert is a nuisance; it falses when there are objects close to the front corners of the truck but not in its path. The lane keeping on my truck is not active in the sense that it only makes a warning if you change lanes without using the turn signal. It doesn't steer the truck. However, at the risk of sounding snotty, if you can't keep your truck in the lane you shouldn't be pulling a trailer. Your either too tired and should pull over and rest, or you shouldn't be towing at all. You're a menace to everyone else. Likewise, even with the maximum distance setting on the brake alert, if you're towing one of the larger Airstreams and you don't brake until the alert sounds, you have an excellent chance of hitting whatever is in front of you if it doesn't get out of the way. I've had 2 collisions in 52 years of driving, one my fault (slid through an intersection on snow); the other not. After a year and over 30,000 miles pulling a 27' Airstream it's clear to me that pulling a trailer demands your full attention in a way that ordinary driving does not. In my view, it would be dangerous to rely on driving aids that supposedly compensate for driver inattention. They will provide a false sense of security.

[xrvr]

Technology can be your enemy! Common sense and driver skill can be your friend.

[Tomzstream]

Originally Posted by DC Bruce

I have a '15 GMC with all that stuff (which I got stuck with in order to get my preferred payload/engine combination). The brake alert is a nuisance; it falses when there are objects close to the front corners of the truck but not in its path. The lane keeping on my truck is not active in the sense that it only makes a warning if you change lanes without using the turn signal. It doesn't steer the truck. However, at the risk of sounding snotty, if you can't keep your truck in the lane you shouldn't be pulling a trailer. Your either too tired and should pull over and rest, or you shouldn't be towing at all. You're a menace to everyone else. Likewise, even with the maximum distance setting on the brake alert, if you're towing one of the larger Airstreams and you don't brake until the alert sounds, you have an excellent chance of hitting whatever is in front of you if it doesn't get out of the way. I've had 2 collisions in 52 years of driving, one my fault (slid through an intersection on snow); the other not. After a year and over 30,000 miles pulling a 27' Airstream it's clear to me that pulling a trailer demands your full attention in a way that ordinary driving does not. In my view, it would be dangerous to rely on driving aids that supposedly compensate for driver inattention. They will provide a false sense of security.

Beg to differ. The lane keeping on my 16 does in fact steer the truck. I will say it generally disengages on curves so you cannot rely on it exclusively, nor would I want to. You can override it to change lanes without signaling but it gives some resistance to it. Perhaps the 15 and 16 differ in that regard. But my point is that one little distraction can have you running off a road with little or no shoulder and do serious damage to your rig or worse. I prefer to have that little bit of advantage, and I challenge you to prove you've never been distracted no matter how good a driver you profess to be. Sorry, you argument doesn't carry water.

As for the brake alert, again things sometimes happen and that little bit of alert may not prevent an accident, but it sure can lessen the overall impact. And I have never had it alert from proximity sensors other than direct frontal threat. Yes I have the parking sensors, which I also like, but the brake alert is not connected to that. It uses a radar.

With all of the autonomous driving stuff, its a matter of degree. I do not relish the idea of an autonomous world, but the scientific fact is it will reduce accidents and damage as self driving vehicles will perform better than a human overall. For now, I am happy having some assistance.

I do wish there was an active brake assist like that on my 16 E320 wagon with the adaptive cruise control. On a truck, it could be easily adapted to sense towing load and adjust braking/cruise distance accordingly. Its simply amazing on my car and while I find I can usually keep my distance and braking managed well by not using it (and with less wear and tear and better mileage) I always use it when cruising. It has performed well in many highway speed incidents already. Again, I prefer to have the reaction time of a computer on my side.

But to each their own.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

Beg to differ. The lane keeping on my 16 does in fact steer the truck. I will say it generally disengages on curves so you cannot rely on it exclusively, nor would I want to. You can override it to change lanes without signaling but it gives some resistance to it. Perhaps the 15 and 16 differ in that regard. But my point is that one little distraction can have you running off a road with little or no shoulder and do serious damage to your rig or worse. I prefer to have that little bit of advantage, and I challenge you to prove you've never been distracted no matter how good a driver you profess to be. Sorry, you argument doesn't carry water.

As for the brake alert, again things sometimes happen and that little bit of alert may not prevent an accident, but it sure can lessen the overall impact. And I have never had it alert from proximity sensors other than direct frontal threat. Yes I have the parking sensors, which I also like, but the brake alert is not connected to that. It uses a radar.

With all of the autonomous driving stuff, its a matter of degree. I do not relish the idea of an autonomous world, but the scientific fact is it will reduce accidents and damage as self driving vehicles will perform better than a human overall. For now, I am happy having some assistance.

I do wish there was an active brake assist like that on my 16 E320 wagon with the adaptive cruise control. On a truck, it could be easily adapted to sense towing load and adjust braking/cruise distance accordingly. Its simply amazing on my car and while I find I can usually keep my distance and braking managed well by not using it (and with less wear and tear and better mileage) I always use it when cruising. It has performed well in many highway speed incidents already. Again, I prefer to have the reaction time of a computer on my side.

But to each their own.

Forward collision active braking came in on 2016s. Forward collision alert was on 14 and 15s.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by DC Bruce

I have a '15 GMC with all that stuff (which I got stuck with in order to get my preferred payload/engine combination). The brake alert is a nuisance; it falses when there are objects close to the front corners of the truck but not in its path. The lane keeping on my truck is not active in the sense that it only makes a warning if you change lanes without using the turn signal. It doesn't steer the truck. However, at the risk of sounding snotty, if you can't keep your truck in the lane you shouldn't be pulling a trailer. Your either too tired and should pull over and rest, or you shouldn't be towing at all. You're a menace to everyone else. Likewise, even with the maximum distance setting on the brake alert, if you're towing one of the larger Airstreams and you don't brake until the alert sounds, you have an excellent chance of hitting whatever is in front of you if it doesn't get out of the way. I've had 2 collisions in 52 years of driving, one my fault (slid through an intersection on snow); the other not. After a year and over 30,000 miles pulling a 27' Airstream it's clear to me that pulling a trailer demands your full attention in a way that ordinary driving does not. In my view, it would be dangerous to rely on driving aids that supposedly compensate for driver inattention. They will provide a false sense of security.

The biggest increase in automobile collisions are due to Texting or general distraction with cellphones. It is of epidemic proportion. I agree with you, all these driving aids are mostly ding dong bells and just like the GPS lady droning on and on gets you aggravated. I just came back form a two day 1200 mile turn around trip on I-75. The only thing kept me from getting into trouble were my eyeballs and reflexes. I prefer not even taking calls in heavy traffic situations.

[n2916s]

Amen to that. How much of my life has been wasted because everyone in front of me at a stoplight had their head down in their cell phone so there is a 50 yard gap between each car as they rejoin the living and start through the intersection...

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Amen to that. How much of my life has been wasted because everyone in front of me at a stoplight had their head down in their cell phone so there is a 50 yard gap between each car as they rejoin the living and start through the intersection...

Man you set me off with that one. My most aggravating peeve.
There is a left turn signal in my town that barely six cars can make it through while its green. At times only two will make because drivers having their noses buried in their cell phones. You see the bewildered look on their faces when you honk, like where am I whats going on ?

[Mergatroyd]

The Ram 1500 has independent rear coil spring suspension. This gives more stability for towing.

[slowmover]

To go back to the beginning, it's the suspension design, the brakes and the steering is the trio of distinguishing differences.

Independent front suspension. Four wheel disc. Rack & pinion steering.

It's downhill from there in performance. If all trucks are the same on this score only then is "brand loyalty" a thing.

Hotchkiss Drive versus four-link rear suspension is about the only other contention.

Mechanical engineering sophistication precedes any and all electronic aids.

The latest Expedition is superior to pickups on this basis. Four wheel independent suspension. Use that as your default TV.

In the same vein, an Airstream isn't superior because it's aluminum. It's because aluminum can be shaped in an aerodynamic fashion AND light weight plus corrosion resistance (and an ungodly amount of scrap aluminum at the end of WWII plus workers skilled in shaping, etc).

It's the aero that matters for performance.

Lighter weight is great. But of no huge consequence in road performance past fuel consumption savings after the introduction of high compression engines in the middle 1950s.

.

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

The Ram 1500 has independent rear coil spring suspension. This gives more stability for towing.

Hmmm. Always thought it had normal solid axel with coils instead of leafs. Not sure the coils do anything for towing that the leaf springs don't. Maybe a better ride unloaded.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by gandttimes

Hmmm. Always thought it had normal solid axel with coils instead of leafs. Not sure the coils do anything for towing that the leaf springs don't. Maybe a better ride unloaded.

Axle wrap not a problem with four link if well engineered.