1/2 ton diesel owners rejoice!

[jcl]

Originally Posted by dkottum

The little I have read and intend to read indicates the EcoDiesels computer settings in question are designed to protect the engine under certain startup and load conditions rather than to cheat emissions. That would be in the best interests of diesel truck owners.

But given the incremental emissions (reportedly up to 10 times) not in the interests of public health, including the owners.

The independent testing that was done showed that those certain conditions include ambient temperatures and load conditions that are expected to be encountered in normal driving conditions. The devices that turned off the emissions controls in those conditions would have potentially been approved by the EPA if they were simply protection devices, and had been disclosed up front by FCA. But turning off the emissions controls in normal conditions would not be approved. Whether FCA did that deliberately or did not understand the law in that respect remains to be determined. The president of FCA described themselves and the engines as "technically deficient" whatever that means.

When the fix is applied, it will come out whether hp, torque, fuel efficiency, or durability are impacted. If not, it will all blow over pretty quickly IMO.

[upnorththree]

Originally Posted by dkottum

I have never used all the throttle on our EcoDiesel/Airstream to merge. The torque comes on at low rpm and the transmission finds a perfect selection from eight gears to deliver it to the drive axle.

One of the many things we like about the vehicle.

Not just that. I won't wait two years for a maybe. What will Ford's competitors have available in two years. 35 MPG?

And besides, anything larger than a 1/2T rides like a truck.

IMHO.

Popeye

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by dkottum

But consumers' best interests be damned as the EPA and ambulance chasing lawyers have launched a witch hunt that is now focused on all diesel engine vehicles.

Demanding that manufacturers meet emission reduction requirements and checking to be sure they have complied strikes me as good government, not a "witch hunt" or anything against consumers best interests. As a consumer my interests are best served when manufacturers sell safe, clean and reliable products.

Also, there are no "ambulance chasing lawyers" in this. The lawsuit against VW was brought by US DOJ lawyers . The FCA lawsuit began as a class action by plaintiffs in Texas and California alleging software was installed to mask diesel emissions as much as 14 times the allowable limits. Whether EPA under the new administration will take over here as it did in the case against VW remains to be seen.

[dkottum]

It was the ambulance chasing law firm of Hagens Berman who are initiating emissions testing on the a variety of vehicles that brought the initial class action suit against the EcoDiesel after they found a client; the EPA then picked up on their "lead". It is these legal low-life's who have no further purpose than to make big money for themselves.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hagens...165100084.html

It isn't that VW could clean up a stupid mistake by executives and provide more excellent diesel-powered vehicles for us consumers, it's that the reputation of VW diesels have been so tarnished that VW has simply abandoned the product here. Mercedes, BMW, Ford, GM, Nissan, Fiat-Chrysler, Cummins and others are most surely aware of the threat.

Meantime we'll continue to enjoy our two excellent EcoDiesel and VW TDI vehicles.

[upnorththree]

Originally Posted by boltonfish

Just traded my work horse '03 Ford f250 short bed 5.0 diesel in on a fancy new SUV that I hope to tow a 23' AS with someday soon. I never had any issues with that engine though I know some did. I bought this new RR Sport with the diesel v6 (extra duty + tow package) because of the engine, the torque, and the combination of really nice car and monster off road capability (fishing & photography). I used to tow a 19' Nash behind my truck (the F250 didn't even know it was there...seriously).

Anyone else actually towing an AS with a Range Rover diesel yet?

Tried to but, the RR diesel didn't have the guts. Really wanted one too. We wanted an SUV but, it just wasn't doable for our needs and desires.

Don't think of going bigger than a 23AS with your RR. Tongue weight limits, unless you don't care.

You will like the RR for not bouncing you around inside like a truck cab.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by dkottum

It was the ambulance chasing law firm of Hagens Berman who are initiating emissions testing on the a variety of vehicles that brought the initial class action suit against the EcoDiesel after they found a client; the EPA then picked up on their "lead". It is these legal low-life's who have no further purpose than to make big money for themselves.

In our free enterprise system we do not rely solely on government, nor do we give it the resources to act as our big brother in order to track down every law breaker. Instead we depend on citizens and other private entities to report illegal activity and initiate legal charges against unrepentant law breakers. That is exactly what Hagens Berman did. After Hagens Berman got the ball rolling, EPA stepped in to continue the investigation and prosecution. Your own source confirms this.

Hagens Berman’s groundbreaking investigation led to official accusations from the EPA against Fiat Chrysler confirming the firm’s findings that the automaker used “secret software” to dupe consumers and cheat federal emissions standards. The law firm estimates that consumers paid premiums of up to $4,700 for vehicles that fail to meet federal emissions standards and are on the road illegally, despite relentless marketing of the vehicles as eco-friendly.“It appears Fiat Chrysler has been caught red-handed, fleecing consumers out of thousands of dollars each for dirty diesels slapped with the word ‘eco.’ We’re pleased our initial investigation caught the eye of the EPA, and will continue to expand our efforts,” said Steve Berman, managing partner of Hagens Berman."

Instead of demonizing Hagens Berman as "ambulance chasers" we should instead thank them for alerting us to what the manufacturers were deliberately doing and the number of phony Eco-diesels they were putting on the road.

[Countryboy59]

They still run a lot cleaner than the older diesels. Most states don't require testing and my guess is people will just drive 'em and not worry about it. Not sure where the huge fines against the manufacturer will go, but I bet the money just gets wasted or lost.

MI hasn't tested emissions in years. It was just a racket when they did.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

In our free enterprise system we do not rely solely on government, nor do we give it the resources to act as our big brother in order to track down every law breaker. Instead we depend on citizens and other private entities to report illegal activity and initiate legal charges against unrepentant law breakers. That is exactly what Hagens Berman did. After Hagens Berman got the ball rolling, EPA stepped in to continue the investigation and prosecution. Your own source confirms this.

Hagens Berman’s groundbreaking investigation led to official accusations from the EPA against Fiat Chrysler confirming the firm’s findings that the automaker used “secret software” to dupe consumers and cheat federal emissions standards. The law firm estimates that consumers paid premiums of up to $4,700 for vehicles that fail to meet federal emissions standards and are on the road illegally, despite relentless marketing of the vehicles as eco-friendly.“It appears Fiat Chrysler has been caught red-handed, fleecing consumers out of thousands of dollars each for dirty diesels slapped with the word ‘eco.’ We’re pleased our initial investigation caught the eye of the EPA, and will continue to expand our efforts,” said Steve Berman, managing partner of Hagens Berman."

Instead of demonizing Hagens Berman as "ambulance chasers" we should instead thank them for alerting us to what the manufacturers were deliberately doing and the number of phony Eco-diesels they were putting on the road.

You can't possibly be serious.

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by capnttom

I really don't understand why I don't have to have my diesels tested, but have to have my gassers tested. It doesn't make sense to me.

Some of it has to do with volume. Only about 3% of passenger cars in the US are diesel. It's easier to go after the 97% which combined produce much more exhaust than the 3%.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by dkottum

You can't possibly be serious.

There's one in every crowd.

Diesel emissions are down, what, 90% from thirty years ago?

Making the last 10% isn't justified from the cost to the owner. Society's claim is already met.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[USAtraveler]

Look people, the issue is not whether diesel engines can be made to run more cleanly or not...then can. The issue is the deliberate action of VW and FCA to circumvent emission controls and the fraud on consumers by charging them for supposedly eco-friendly engines that were not. It's human nature to avoid having to admit you were duped or that your vehicle is one of the those with a polluting engine. However, to be unconcerned because diesels comprise such a small percentage of vehicles on US roads that their dirty emissions don't matter ignores some unpleasant reality. As noted in a fact sheet by the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics,
"Diesel-powered motor vehicles account for about 4 percent of the fleet (figure 1), but they account for about half of the on-road NOx emissions. In 2013, gasoline-powered motor vehicles contributed 2,365 kilotons; in comparison, diesel-powered motor vehicles contributed 2,125 kilotons of on-road NOx emissions [USEPA 2015]."

"www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/bts_fact.../entire.html"

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

Look people, the issue is not whether diesel engines can be made to run more cleanly or not...then can. The issue is the deliberate action of VW and FCA to circumvent emission controls and the fraud on consumers by charging them for supposedly eco-friendly engines that were not. It's human nature to avoid having to admit you were duped or that your vehicle is one of the those with a polluting engine. However, to be unconcerned because diesels comprise such a small percentage of vehicles on US roads that their dirty emissions don't matter ignores some unpleasant reality. As noted in a fact sheet by the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics,
"Diesel-powered motor vehicles account for about 4 percent of the fleet (figure 1), but they account for about half of the on-road NOx emissions. In 2013, gasoline-powered motor vehicles contributed 2,365 kilotons; in comparison, diesel-powered motor vehicles contributed 2,125 kilotons of on-road NOx emissions [USEPA 2015]."

"www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/bts_fact.../entire.html"

Yeah, but emissions overall are way down from what they used to be. I think the percentage contribution may be misleading.

[rodsterinfl]

The catch will be payload rating and trailer tongue weight. The Ram diesels are around 1200#.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

The catch will be payload rating and trailer tongue weight. The Ram diesels are around 1200#.

Rod, the payload number is important to me when I haul a load in the bed of our EcoD with no trailer, or hook up our utility trailer with no weight distribution hitch. That payload weight will take the rear axle right up near the EcoD's rear axle rating of 3900 lbs.

Unless I am using a weight distribution hitch. The payload number means little because I have two 3900 lb axles. I use the w.d. hitch to load the axles equally, and have plenty of excess axle capacity. I use the CAT scale to verify. With the trailer hitched, w.d. set, and all loaded for travel, the rear axle is carrying less weight than with no trailer and the EcoD's bed loaded to the payload number.

I also know the EcoD's engine, transmission, running gear and brakes are designed and presumably tested to tow and stop the entire combination because it weighs less the the truck's combined weight rating (GCWR). Off the top of my head I recall GVWR is 14,740 lbs for our particular EcoD with the 3.92 axle gears, we are way under that as well.

We have used it to tow our Airstream as far east as Ohio and throughout the Southwest already, and haul loads and tow our utility trailer at home frequently this past summer. With the 1400 lb ProPride hitch, full coil suspension (which has better lateral stability than leaf spring suspensions according to Ram engineers), it is a smooth running, comfortable, and absolutely confident towing combination in all weather, road, and traffic conditions.

[gypsydad]

I was wondering if anyone out there has the Nissan with the Cummings in the 1/2 T with some update on how it does pulling. (or is it 2/3 T?) Also, did they do anything to enlarge the fuel and DFT tank size yet; I see aftermarket offerings in Trailer Life Mag....just curious if anyone has this model and what they think overall...hows the ride, pulling, etc...any positive or negative update is appreciated.

[stevenson748]

I am with Vern Diesel. The green engine tune works well with the eco diesel. I like the option for turbo brake and also regen notification. The eco diesels are very fuel efficient, and perform well with daily driving as well pulling Airstream trailers up to 28 feet

[n2916s]

I have a 2016 Titan XD with the Cummins diesel. So far it has proven to be a comfortable and very capable tow vehicle but I have yet to pull in the mountains.

I traded in my 2004 Titan gasser at 213000 miles for it. That old Titan towed my 31' Sovereign some 70000 miles and never let me down or gave me a "white knuckle" moment so I stayed with the brand.

The new truck is bone stock except for a Leer camper top. Mileage towing in the flat is about 13, otherwise 16 in town and 21 on the highway.
I only have 3200 miles on it and it has used 2.5 gallons of DEF.

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Yeah but that doesn't help when you're shopping for a Ford.

I like this talk. I have lots of Ford stock for dividends in my retirement account. I will never own another Ford (long story), but the more people that buy them, the better the stock does!

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

JCL makes a good point. Screwing around with the approved factory settings is gonna mess up the emission levels. VW devised a way to get more power and mpg's from their diesel engines by clandestinely "tuning" over their own approved engine management algorithms.
My skeptical nature led me to searching the website of Green Diesel Engineering. The name is a misnomer. GDE makes all kinds of claims for their tuning products, but they assiduously avoid any claim their tuning will improve emission numbers or even leave the factory emission output unchanged. (Nor do they claim that reliability or longevity are improve either.) Sadly, the EPA does not seem to have the resources to put these scofflaw operators out of business.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Diesel engines per se. They have a lot of advantages in many cases. But its an inherently dirty engine in which its difficult to limit harmful emissions. Technology has made improvements, so it's disheartening to find those who are unconcerned about degrading optimum emission controls.

Aren't we worrying about ants in the kitchen when there are elephants in the living room?

I live near I-40, and with the numbers of 18 wheelers out there polluting the world, I hardly think a few trailer owners with a varied "tune" are going to ruin the world. You want to be "green"? Then I think starting at the "top" polluters would make more sense. (I have a gas engine and would be reluctant to buy diesel since after 20 years in the Army I couldn't stand the smell anymore, so I have no dog in the fight, but it seems odd to hear). I'm just saying...

[NoResults]

To Silver.Santuary your Ford stock should do well after all its the number one selling truck year after year.

Dave