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Old 10-09-2007, 10:24 PM   #1
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07 Tundra vs F250 vs Dodge 2500 vs Chevy 2500

I have been looking at the new Tundra to pull a 2007 25 Airstream Safari. I've not towed a TT before so I want to make sure I have a little extra truck to help with my inexperience. I am a Toyota fan but after reading comments on this forum I wasn't sure if it was enough truck for my needs. So...not knowing a lot about pickups I did a quick analysis between it and the 3/4 ton alternatives (Ford, Chevy & Dodge) that I am considering. Thought this comparison may help someone else in the same boat. What came to light really quick and what I was amazed to see is how much "beefier" the Ford, Dodge and Chevy came in as compared to the Toyota. So, now I think I somewhat understand the difference between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks. Still haven't decided which TV to go with but at least now I feel a little more comfortable with what I'm getting for the extra bucks required to get into a 3/4 ton. Results are as follows:

Toyota: 5.7L gas; 381 hp; 401 torque; 6 speed auto;GVWR 7100; payload: 1555; tow cap: 10,200; curb weight 5445.

Ford F250: 6.4L Diesel; 350 hp; 650 torque; 5 speed auto; GVWR: 10,000; payload: 2410; tow cap: 12,500; curb weight: 7000.

Dodge 2500: 6.7L Diesel; 350 hp, 650 torque; 6 speed; GVWR: 8800; payload: 3130; tow cap: 13,250; curb weight: 6500

Chevy 2500: 6.6L Diesel: 365 hp; 660 torque; 6 speed; GVWR: 9200; payload: 3465; tow cap: 13,000; curb weight: 6006
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outthere

Ford F250: 6.4L Diesel; 350 hp; 650 torque; 5 speed auto; GVWR: 10,000; payload: 2410; tow cap: 12,500; curb weight: 7000.
12,500 is the hitch rating. This is the Class V hitch rating. If you go to a fifth wheel then is jumps to 15,000 or 23,000 bs depending on which brochure you read. My F-250 towers over the Tundra. It is much larger and if you look at the suspension and axles you will see a truck.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:37 PM   #3
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hi outthere...

apples and oranges.

really your listing is not a fair comparison...

the 'yota is NOW, finally in the 1/2 ton league.

but it isn't a 3/4, maybe it's a 5/8s

so compare the tundra to the f-150 or 1500 from the other 2 vendors...

each brand will have some features that trump the others,

but finally there are 4 1/2 ton trucks...

with the nissan as a 3/8s nibbler...

one might be happy with the tundra or f-150 on many modern 25s...

but should you ever decide to go just 2 foot larger,

a diesel 3/4 will be that much better suited 2 the task.

then there is the issue of altitude or long grades or high mileage or adding more crap inside the bed...

the 3/4s are just better suited to serious towing and the 1/2s are great multitasking occasional tow-rs....

cheers
2air'
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:39 PM   #4
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Hi outthere. The basic news is that the Tundra is an honest, full-sized, heavy duty half ton truck. You are comparing it to 3/4 ton trucks and that isn't fair. No 25' Airstream is going to exceed the tow capacity of any truck you mentioned. But the 950# to 1000# ready-to-camp tongue weight is going to take 2/3d's of the Tundra's payload. Best performance, safety and durability recommendations usually are that you don't exceed 80-85% of any critical capacity. 80% of 1555 pounds payload minus 950# leaves precious little margin for fuel load, driver + passengers, pets ... and you haven't begun to talk about what you want to put in or on the box of the truck.

I sold a 1345# payload Nissan Titan when I got my newer (heavier) 25' Safari -- it wasn't going to allow me to camp in the style to which I wanted to be accustomed. The bare tow vehicle was at 100% of payload with two people, 100# of dogs and little more on the truck. I suspect the Tundra will have more future ... diesel for 2009 models according to one Toyota dealer. Will they ever up the capacity? That is questionable with 3/4-tonners being such a small portion of the market. This might be a case for a used Big 3 tow vehicle while Toyota figures out their next 2-3 years. Or depending on your travel ambitions (see 2air'), jump in big time and go diesel 3/4 tonner -- not the best daily commute vehicle. But we get to dream and spend your cash this way... . No, there are some fair consideration below diesel -- but a 1/2 ton truck leaves little margin for long range roaming, gear, or toys in addition to the Airstream.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:06 PM   #5
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outthere,

Are you comparing the Toyota Max 2007 from San Antonio? I don't need a truck now so I have never done a comparison.
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:45 AM   #6
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Outthere, the Tundra and other recent 1/2 ton trucks like the F150 are extremely capable tow vehicles. Look at the numbers - depending on the model and options, the 2007 Tundra has specs in this range:

GCWR:16,000 lbs (combined weight the truck, trailer, fluids, you, and all your gear)

Payload Capacity: 2000lbs (weight of you and your gear in the truck - include appx 2/3 of the distributed Airstream's tongue weight )

Towing capacity: 10,800 lbs (weight of trailer, fluids, and gear you put in the trailer)

The UBW (empty weight) of a 25' Safari is about 5200 lbs depending on the model. Well within the Tundra's 10,800 towing capacity. A significant "margin" no matter how you look at it, even if you fill all the tanks and put a thousand pounds of gear in the Airstream.

You won't get much more towing capacity in a 3/4 ton unless you step up to the diesel - but then you could tow one 25' Safari and throw another one in the bed for a spare

.............Scott
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:20 AM   #7
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Respectfully, don't buy a used vehicle hoping you may like the new Toyota in 09' that may not even be a 3/4 ton. Besides, how much better can it be than what is already available? I expect 8-9 years of 40,000+ miles per year out of a vehicle. I get that with a Dodge Cummins. I have gotten that with a Ford 7.3 and I am sure a Chevy Duramax would do that as well. So, how much better will the new unproven Toyota be?

Its your money but if it were me it would be the Duramax or the Cummins. I chose the Dodge because to me the seats were more comfortable than Chevy's (I'm in that truck 3 hours a day and I'm going to be comfortable). Ford actually builds a tighter truck but the 6.0 was an absolute disaster and now I'm scared to risk any money on the unproven 6.4 (I hear its really thirsty) when Dodge and Chevy are about as safe as a bet on Secretariat. Toyota builds a lot of great light duty car and truck engines but do you really want to be their guinea pig?
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:23 AM   #8
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All, Thanks for the replies. Yes, I know I was being unfair in comparing the Toyota to the 3/4 ton jobbies but I was hoping that the Toyota would come in close to the others as I am a Toyota biggot. I've owned Toyota vehicles for many years and all of them have been totally trouble free even though I keep them for 10+ years and well over 100K miles. Unfortunately what I hear about the domestic brands still leaves something to be desired in terms of maintenance and reliability. So....when I did the comparision I was really trying to convince myself that the 2007 Tundra was in the same league as the 3/4 ton trucks since HP and Torque looked to be about the same. Alas, although I'm convinced that the Tundra is a fantastic vehicle in terms of quality I do see where it falls short on the spec sheet like any other 1/2 ton would when compared to 3/4 tons. Also, since I'm new to pickups I wasn't really sure what the difference between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton was. This little exercise helped me understand (some of us have to be hit between the eyes for it to sink in!). My thought is that for someone like me who is inexperienced at towing its better to go with some overkill in the TV. My wife and I plan to spend the winter in the 25 Safari and move across country quite a bit. We also plan to travel though the mountains in the summer so I also want to make sure I have more than enough "umph" to get up the passes in the Rockies. I don't want to have to face any white knuckle experiences and would like to find a TV that can tow the 25' AS without my knowing its back there. So...I'm starting to lean toward the 3/4 ton diesels. Now I just have to decide which one....I plan to take the wife out "shopping" and to look at Dodge, Chevy and Ford. We'll do test drives and comparisons and go from there. For me, half the fun is doing this type of research. I also want to thank the folks on this forum for responding to questions since I've found this to be an invaluable source of real life information. You folks are great!! Thanks!
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:26 AM   #9
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I've got a 2007 Chevy 2500 Duramax. We tow our 25ft International with it and get 14 mpg. It will get 18 mpg not towing. I've towed our previous 19ft International with our previous F150. I also towed the 19ft with the Chevy 2500. There is no substitute for a bigger truck. The 2500 got better mileage than the F150. With the 2500 and the 25ft, I can set the cruise control and go.
We have a 2007 Camry, so I love Toyotas too. I think the Chevy, Dodge, and Ford 3/4 ton diesels are the way to go.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:40 AM   #10
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Hey Outthere, I agree with Canoestream. I had a 2006 Nissan Titan for awhile. It pulled my 25' Stream but it was no picnic. Big trucks would blow past me and shook me and the trailer. Then going up a hill the thing would down shift until you were finally going up a hill at 30mph. I said enough of this nonsense. I went for a lightly used (14,000 miles) 2006 F250 PSD. I could not be happier. I love this truck. Pulls like a dream, plenty of payload capacity, and I maintain speed up grade (usually 58-65mph) without a hiccup. 1/2 tons are ok for pulling from point A to B, but if you start adding support equipment, supplies, people, critters, etc..., your "margin for comfort" declines rapidly.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:48 AM   #11
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Ford trucks are the best selling trucks in the world. I own a 06 Ford F350 that I drive everyday and I love it. I specifically bought a late 2006 6L just before Ford introduced the new Diesel. I'm getting about 15.4 mpg around town and from reading the Ford Diesel Forums the 6.4L owners are getting around 11mpg. Something to think about. I owned a Toyota truck and there is no comparison between U.S. heavy duty trucks and the trucks the foreign companies are building.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan
I've got a 2007 Chevy 2500 Duramax. We tow our 25ft International with it and get 14 mpg. It will get 18 mpg not towing. I've towed our previous 19ft International with our previous F150. I also towed the 19ft with the Chevy 2500. There is no substitute for a bigger truck. The 2500 got better mileage than the F150. With the 2500 and the 25ft, I can set the cruise control and go.
We have a 2007 Camry, so I love Toyotas too. I think the Chevy, Dodge, and Ford 3/4 ton diesels are the way to go.
I also agree with Dawgfan. ANY of the Big Three Diesels should be fine.

P.S. I like Toyotas also (have a 4Runner). There really is no substitute for experience.
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:17 AM   #13
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Welcome!

Yeah…what 2air and canoestream said. Your research clearly laid out the difference between ½ tons (any brand) and ¾ tons. I can personally verify you would not be happy towing a 25’ with a ½ ton for any distance. May be OK going around the block, but if you intend to roam (isn’t that why we get AirStreams?) then you definitely want a ¾ ton. Sounds like you are planning on putting down some miles…buy the right truck. BTW, Toyota said some time ago they will not pursue the HD pickup market at this time. I’m no Toyota fan but here is the (dated) press release; http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116931 and with the overall down turn in truck sales, I would be hard pressed to believe they would want to spend the development dollars to pursue such a niche market.
You may also benefit from the post about my towing experience with a ½ ton and a 25’; http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/02-worth-towing-advice-28886.html#post313803

You are doing well by researching first. Some folks buy the horse and then end up with a carriage that can’t really pull (safely). As noted, ½ ton’s may pull the weight, but you won’t have payload left for all your “stuff.” I like my stuff…

Good luck,
Bill
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:27 AM   #14
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BillTex. Thanks for the great post on your experiences with the 1/2 ton burb. Great post for someone like me as your experience with the 1/2 ton is exactly what I'm trying to avoid!
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