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**azflycaster** · 10-10-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanoeStream

Richard, I'd love to have a new Tundra. Vintage 25-footers are a different cat than new. A new 25' Airstream grosses around 1000# heavier with tongue weight being significantly higher. If I was still using my '74 24' Argosy I'm sure I'd be happier than a pig in slop with a Tundra!

I agree. The extra weight of a new AS is something to consider. My evaluation is based on my trailer.

Wayward · 10-10-2007, 12:53 PM

I am researching a new 1/2 ton truck and reading all these posts with great interest! I am very impressed with the specs on these new trucks - and driving them. One main reason we chose the lightweight 25' Safari was so that we could buy a 1/2 ton truck.

In the meantime, even with our aging F150, I've found a solution to these sort of "gear hunting" problems when towing the Safari. The key was installing the right differential gear so that I could keep the engine at a good speed on the highway. This made a huge difference - before putting in 4.30 gears I was always shifting around at highway speed - one gear was too low and overevved while staying with traffic, and upshifting was too steep to maintain highway speeds. It is now a stable plesant towing experience. With a humble 4.2L I have to downshift on the steeper grades but I'm still usually not the slowest one going up hills.

I used to own a Chevy diesel for boat and car hauling. It was great for towing twice the weight of the Safari but now that we will have just one truck to both tow the Airstream and to commute into town once we park it, a 1/2ton is much more attractive. Something like a new Tundra or F150 with nearly twice the horsepower/torque and twice the towing capacity than is needed for the 25' Safari, will be a huge step up from the 4.2.

Although I know it is overkill, I may wait until next summer when Ford releases the 4.4 diesel in the 2009 F150 - 330 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque!

............Scott

CanoeStream · 10-10-2007, 01:13 PM

It doesn't look like GM sells a 1500 HD any more. Look at the GM payload capacities -- pick your own future. (Ford & Mopar stats available on their websites) The Airstream's manual or this will instruct you how to determine true tongue weight.

I cannot say if Airstream's published specs reflect the fact that they've made the LS package (thus a spare tire) standard on Safaris. Everything I have learned would not suggest they are out in front of the aircraft on this detail. Point is -- a decent hitch bar (35 pounds), weight distribution gear, LP in the tanks and a spare tire up front would be considered aftermarket options and not reflected in the Airstream specs; most of the preceeding options are going to add to hitch weight with very little transferred back to the axles. Then put some of your personal gear into the trailer. If these factors don't add 200 pounds minimum to the published hitch weight (eg, 720# for base 25' FB SE) I'll eat my hat. Thus my statement to expect something more like 950# hitch weight. And we aren't even talking about putting water in the tanks like shameless diesel owners are known to do for improved trailer stability, easier late arrivals at campgrounds, etc.

Wayward · 10-10-2007, 01:29 PM

Bob, in my Airstream manual it says that a properly setup WD hitch will transfer 1/3 of the tongue weight to the trailer wheels.

If that is the case, then 1/3 of the tongue weight should be included in the trailer's GVWR calculation and 2/3 of the tongue weight in to the vehicle's GVWR calculations.

No one on these posts seems to factor that in. Am I missing something?

............Scott

mike rogers · 10-10-2007, 01:29 PM

The Tundra does Great with a new 25 foot Airstream. People are still under the impression Toyotas are light duty vehicles. My Father uses a Tundra for his 25' 76 Caravanner and I use a Tacoma to tow my 25' 2006 Safari. We both put on many miles over mountains and all, no problems. My mileage (Tacoma) is 13-14 at highway speed.

2airishuman · 10-10-2007, 01:30 PM

well i agree the listed a/s weights are suspect...

especially once the options get piled on.

BUT one nice change for this year is...

a/s is NOW including a spare tire/wheel with all units.

i think.

but i'm still not sure it's been added to the tongue figures.

cheers
2air'

outthere · 10-10-2007, 02:07 PM

Just took the wife to lunch and on the way passed a Chevy dealer. Just so happened he had two 07 2500's and 1 2008 2500 diesel, 4x4, extended cabs on the lot. The stickers were both around $44,000 but he was taking $5,500 off the 08 and $7,500 off the 07 due to rebates and discounts. Thats without negotiating. However, he also mentioned two things about the 07 and newer diesels that I wasn't aware of. 1) starting in 07 there are new requirements for diesel fuel in these vehicles that limit the grade of diesel that can be used. He said that by 2010 all stations would be required to carry the higher grade but right now you have to make sure you use ONLY the higher grade or you can do serious damage to the engine and the warrently will NOT cover it. All stations do not carry the higher grade yet so it sounds like you have to search around which could be a problem in some locations. 2) the 07's and 08's have what he called an "ash burner" in them. I'm not sure how often this thing operates but it has a light on the dash that comes on and when it does you have to drive at 45 mph or higher for about 20 minutes so it can do its thing. He said you cannot stop when this light comes on even if you just got home. I was not aware of these two factors in terms of the new diesel engines but they sound like they could be a PIA....

HiHoAgRV · 10-10-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outthere

starting in 07 there are new requirements for diesel fuel

All of the stations I have seen recently have changed over to the new lower sulfer fuel. In fact, I can't remember seeing any since late '06 that still sold the old stuff. No worries as far as I'm concerned

BillTex · 10-10-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outthere

1) starting in 07 there are new requirements for diesel fuel in these vehicles that limit the grade of diesel that can be used. He said that by 2010 all stations would be required to carry the higher grade but right now you have to make sure you use ONLY the higher grade or you can do serious damage to the engine and the warrently will NOT cover it. All stations do not carry the higher grade yet so it sounds like you have to search around which could be a problem in some locations.

I am running an 06 (which can burn aything you put in it, including goat piss) that is one of the reasons I grabbed an 06.

As far as I know ALL stations were required as of LAST YEAR to carry the new ULSD. I have yet to find a station that does not. And I have never had a problem finding diesel anywhere.

Not saying anyone NEEDS diesel, but these are my observations.

Bill

Wayward · 10-10-2007, 02:39 PM

at least the salesman was up front with you but it does not seem like much of a selling point. Here is Chevy's spin on it.

GM'S 2007 Duramax 6.6L V-8 Turbo-Diesel Revised

Safari-Rick · 10-10-2007, 03:01 PM

Just got back from Palm Springs in my 2007 Dodge HD 6.7L Diesel. Got 15.8 mpg with my trailer and the mother isn't even broken in yet! I've got power up the Butt!

We had a very windy weekend in So-Cal. but my truck and trailer did not even notice it.
I am very, very pleased with my choice of TV. No stress, made it home with out being exhausted.

Had a Dodge 4.7L V-8 but was not enough going up the hills and let's not talk about stress!!

If you're interested, you can build any truck you decide to purchase and get a great price as I did at: CarsDirect.com -- America's #1 way to buy cars online! and NO, I'm not a salesman. I just like spending my $$ wisely!

That's my 2 cents worth and I'm sticking to it !

thecatsandi · 10-10-2007, 03:15 PM

I had the choice of an 06 or an 07. I took the 06. It will burn any of the heavy fuels. I like to have that option. most of the fuel stations I stopped at recently in AZ, CA, OR, ID all have ULSD.

CanoeStream · 10-10-2007, 03:42 PM

We're getting off the thread subject. Diesel is well recommended but not the only way to pull 25' Airstreams; e.g., http://www.airforums.com/forums/f348...ers-36380.html

I have seen some stations with the only diesel pumps labeled low sulfur but not ULSD. This is more of a problem at truck stops where the automotive fuel islands don't have diesel and you have to find the credit card pump over on the truck side -- so far most of these situations haven't had ULSD at all. I do not know what ULSD mandates exist for semi trucks. This last weekend I saw a convenience store/gas station big sign advertise a price for diesel. At the island that was for the low sulfur; the ULSD was about 8 cents higher per gallon. I'm with Michelle on liking an '06 diesel for maximum versatility for either fuel at this time.

Safari-Rick · 10-10-2007, 03:52 PM

You are correct CanoeStream. The new diesel fuel is more $$. From what I understand, the distributors are trying to find a price base for the new low sulfur diesel fuel. But, as you all may or may not know, the new standard of low sulfer will be inforced by 2010. Stations are now being required to change over.

When I purchased my truck, I was infact told by the dealer that at this time I would not be able to go into Mexico as they are not yet formulating the low sulfer diesel fuel. Mexican fuel at best is questionable anyway!

But that's ok

)

R/
Rick

SlimJim · 10-10-2007, 04:38 PM

I do have the Chev 2007.5 diesel and have driven it as far north as Washington DC and down into central Florida. Every station does not have the ULSD but I have not gotten into a tight looking for it. It can be a PIA when it's not there. There are enough around that someone will have it. I did have to get a fill up at a BP station near DC and it was .50 per gallon higher than gasoline. You buy 20+ gallons and you notice the difference. I haven't towed with it yet but I have averaged as much as 20 MPG with all highway driving on cruise. I got rid of my 2003 Tundra (best vehicle I've owned) to get this one to make sure I have enough truck for towing.

2airishuman · 10-10-2007, 05:14 PM

on the ford side it is the 2008s, NOT '07s that require ULSD...

there is also a requirement for a new grade/designation engine oil on these rigs with the carbon/particulate filter/burner.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...now-30023.html

yes owners of older diesels can burn ulsd or lsd...

BUT the risk of fuel filter issues GOES WAY UP if you mix/match ulsd, lsd, and biod (which is also ulsd)

some states have fully converted (cali) and no longer even label the pumps.

others have not yet and this year was to be 80% converted to Ulsd....

i've seen many truck stops with a dozen lsd pumps and 3-4 ulsd...

many farmers are still using lsd too.

it's a passenger car/light truck issue but the semis will all be on ulsd by 2010, unless the rules change.

we discussed this issue back here,

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...rld-25248.html

so it's often a good idea to search folks...

cheers
2air'

now back to the 1/2 ton debate, which includes NO diesels...

yet.

outthere · 10-11-2007, 05:05 PM

If anybody is interested, this months issue of "Truckin" magazine (Vol 33, No 12) has a test entitled "Heavy Duty Showdown" where it reviews the 2008 Chevy 2500 Diesel 4x4, Dodge 2500 diesel 4x4 and Ford F250 diesel 4x4. Interesting article for those of us looking at these vehicles. Net is that they rate the Chevy as the fastest and prettiest and the Ford as the most likely to be mistaken for an 18 wheeler... The Dodge is in between in all categories. Overall they like the Ford because of its edge in towing capacity and styling. My wife looked at the article and as soon as she read that the Chevy was the "least" truck like she immediately jumped on the Chevy band wagon. Of course, the trucks they used in the test were all maxed out with all of them having top of the line interiors and the Chevy looking more like a car interior then a truck. With respect to the Ford interior they say that "18 wheelers should look this tough". They also like the fact that GM copied the Ford Trailer-Brake Controller and now has one whereas Dodge doesn't.

cummins · 10-11-2007, 07:13 PM

Go with a Diesel, for the power and economy: and it will be a 3/4 ton at the least. I have an 03 Ram and get about 18 mpg unloaded in town and recently towed a 20' trailer with a J.D. Tractor (18,800 lbs) and was at 14 mpg.

SilverGate · 10-11-2007, 08:39 PM

… along with 2air’, thecatsandi, and others.

Outthere – I also travel up and over mountains (which you plan to do), which was a factor, along with many others, why I chose and love the 2006 F-250 Power Stroke Diesel Super Duty truck.

Mine came with the optional Tow Command System with integrated electronic trailer-brake controller, Tow Package and built-in Tow Mirrors.

I’m glad I chose the Crew Cab. The rear seats fold down, providing a secure platform where I place two dog carriers, which get strapped securely to each side. The dogs enjoy the view and I can see them.

I’ve towed the 23’ Safari to the Southern California beaches, valleys, mountains, and deserts without any problems. See:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396/silvergate-s-safari-home-last-29471-22.html

The only thing I might have done differently would have been to get the 4x4. As some have mentioned here, we got the 2006 model to make sure it would run on both types of diesel. I bought late in the season and couldn’t resist the deal I got on this silver truck. And even now with the camping that I do, the 4x2 suites me fine for the most part and the ride is comfortable.

So, before you buy anything, you at least owe it to yourself and wife to test drive an F-250 PSD!

SilverGate

lundfog · 10-11-2007, 09:16 PM

I have a '03 Tundra and tow a 21' a few times each summer it does okay and is a nice truck, but...............

To do some serious towing like you mention, get a domestic 3/4 ton diesel, Chevy 2500's are nice, and breathe through your nose with no overload worries, that 660 ft/lbs torque is what counts in the "hills".