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Old 10-18-2008, 05:03 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post

I don't know about you Jason, but roads here in Illinois are not all that great.

To me, Toyota's issues seemed to start when they started building here....same with Honda.
Roads in Colorado are as bad or worse.

There has been a decline in quality in Toyotas. I think expansion has been too fast. The service dept. of the Toyota dealer nearby says it's the (American?) suppliers of the small, cheap stuff that are doing a bad job. Eight or ten years ago, our Toyotas were flawless. By 2002, a few things went wrong on the '02's. The 2006 had 2 or 3 minor problems. The '07 Tundra—a button on the dashboard sticks. So, a serious quality decline (by Toyota standards).

The oil filter on the 5.7 L engine is very hard to change. They went back to a cartridge filter on the '08 and the service guy says it's even harder to get to. He thinks they hired some out of work Chrysler engineers to design the oil filter (this dealership sells Chryslers too). I'm not making that up. Every time I change the oil and filter, I want to buy another brand.

I wish Detroit would get its act together. They've had decades to do so and ignored what they had to do. It's sad. I didn't mind fixing cars when I was a lot younger—it was a lot more sensible to buy an older car and keep it going. I'm too old for that now plus my wife wouldn't let my buy anything but new cars. I want a vehicle that never breaks, especially when I'm thousands of miles from home and hundreds of miles from a dealer.


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Old 10-18-2008, 05:40 PM   #240
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Ok, I'm fine with that, And don't mean to put words in you mouth, but I have questions???

what does the test show... If we test all the trucks over the past say 20 years will they do it too.... Aren't frames suppose to be better and stronger today than years past??? What are the consequences of frame flex??? If you have a trailer on the back is it going to do the same thing....?? These test don't mean a whole lot... At least to me... no matter what truck it is...

First test... Weight on a frame.. With blocks under it... Not realistic... You have a rear end and suspension to help distribute that weight... This Test doesn't mean a hole lot unless you have your truck on blocks with a tailer attached... then your frame might bend..

Back to the other test. What does it mean? Will your frame go out of alignment? Brake in half? what...??? Have any frames broken or bent? I haven't heard anything "doesn't mean it hasn't happened..."

Who did the Test and why? Should be the first question... like Gene said the guy says "our ford"... It Seems to me FORD put this video out. and just said look at this... Well what does it mean.... NOTHING... they don't give any information about what it means...
So the ford doesn't flex as much... big whop!!!

And it was on youtube.. good place to watch fun videos, and get propaganda out to the masses.. Not saying the video is Propaganda, but it seems to try and scare people with out giving answers to what the information means....

Tell me what the information means and then it will mean something..... I've said this from the beginning.... Give me a realistic frame test and tell me what it means....


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Old 10-18-2008, 07:59 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by purman View Post
So why compare a Tundra to a 3/4 ton Diesel and why Trash the Tundra if you have never towed with one.. Everyone who does seems to like it....
ummm....maybe because that was the OP????

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Old 10-19-2008, 07:53 AM   #242
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Gene, I couldn't agree more. Sounds oddly similar to Airstream's QC and production issues.

What the video shows to me is frame flex. IMHO and others who may be engineers here feel free to jump in, there is nearly always going to be some degree of frame flex. How much is ok? I don't have an engineering degree to say for sure however, when you look at the video, regardless of who made it or where it is being housed, it brings up several concerns when you see a frame flex like one waves their hand. Does it show real world environments? It could IMHO. Forget the road with all 3 on it, I particularly found the frame test interesting. Of course on the other end of the spectrum one that barely moves at all I can't say is good or bad either, so maybe GM's showing being in the middle wasn't so bad after all.

Again, I'm not here to prove or explain the content of the video, I have some ideas about it, posted and and let folks comment and make their decision with whatever tools are out there. I will say that Toyota is claiming to be able to haul what 3/4 ton trucks do, so again, IMHO, it seems very relevant to test out those claims. Looking at the videos however, all the trucks tested were 1/2 tonners, not 3/4 ton diesels. This is not trashing any particular brand, it simply shows one aspect of some tests someone did. It is offered at face value. In my situation the Toyota offerings are not a good fit, so me going out and buying or test driving one is moot. For what I need the Suburban is it and the Suburban has been duplicated, but never equaled in it's class. Ford tried with the Excursion, but it failed, even having a diesel (which GM hasn't had in the burb for years and years) and no one makes a decent 3/4 ton station wagon like truck, not Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, or anyone else for that matter. The domestics own (FWIW today) the light truck market. Eventually they won't and Toyota's entry into the 1/2 market clearly shows if they ever went after the light truck market properly (3/4 ton or more), they would for sure give the big 3 a run for their money. To date that has not happened and as Gene points out, the QC issues are increasing putting them and a growing number of loyal owners who didn't expect these issues with Toyota in bed with what the big three have wrestled with for decades. Don't think I'm singling out Toyota either, Nissan is in the exact same place (though I have no idea how much frame flex Nissan's have).
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Old 10-19-2008, 08:00 PM   #243
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For what it is worth......

I did quite a bit of research before I bought my truck.

I've always been a Ford fan, and was leaning heavily in that direction when I started looking for a replacement for my old F-150.

I knew that I wanted a diesel.........after driving a few of them, and getting a taste of the power that the turbo gives, there is just no comparison. Couple that with better fuel mileage than gasoline, and the choice is obvious. (Diesel fuel contains 30 to 40% more BTUs than gasoline.)

I like the Cummins engine used in the Dodge vehicles, but have had some bad experiences with the front hub bearings on these. A $2700 aftermarket setup will fix the problem if the wallet can handle it. The disc brakes are also very small on these trucks, and will require a change much more often than the Ford. The manual transmission on these trucks also has a bad synchronizer in 5th gear. (I don't know if this issue has been addressed for the 07 or 08 models.)

Chevy has an independent front killer. I won't even consider it. GM really needs to get their act together on this.

Ford had many bad experiences with the 6.0 liter engine starting in '03. Most of the problems have been addressed, except for the weak link between the head and block. The 6.4 liter is the same block/head combination, and the same problems exist. Both of these engines can be run hard and heavily modified with a head stud upgrade. But at about $1600 for the parts, and a week in the shop........

I therefore decided to go with a 2001 F-350 with the old 7.3 liter diesel engine. These trucks don't have the same horsepower as the newer ones, but the engine is MUCH, MUCH better. I'm slowly modifying the engine to give me some more horsepower, but I don't really need it.

I can set the cruise at 70 with my 31 foot A/S in tow and climb up the big hills of Kentucky without downshifting. (Haven't been out West with this combo yet.) I did take this truck from Idaho into Yellowstone empty, and it went right up the big hills with lots of pedal to spare. The continental divide is more than 13,000 feet. Oh, and the sound of the turbo winding up is just awesome!!!

I get 20 mpg on the highway without a load. 16 in the city.
I get 14 mpg on the highway with the trailer. 12 in the city.

I work construction, and probably 75 to 85% of all the trucks on the jobsite are Fords. Many of the larger fleets (construction or otherwise) use Fords. BP for instance. This is due to the fact that the Ford will cost you less money over the life of the vehicle. The Toyota may break down less often, but the parts will cost you a leg, and the labor will cost you an arm. It matters not what brand you buy, a starter or alternator is only expected to last 100,000 miles. If you can get the numbers from somebody, the lifetime fleet vehicle repair costs will prove what I have said.

I now have 196,000 miles on this truck, and I'm not afraid to drive it to California tomorrow. Matter of fact, I will be hauling my A/S to Kansas in a couple weeks. I expect to keep this truck for at least another 100,000 miles, and I'm still riding on the original clutch.

If you buy a 4x4, get the manual hubs. You'll thank me later.

Happy hunting,

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Old 01-05-2011, 03:13 PM   #244
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Is the Tundra the most "American" truck???

This story was posted today on the MSN home page:
Do You Really Drive an American Car? - MSN Autos

It reported on the domestic content of autos, with a link to NHTSA that is the official document that illistrates the actual content of vehicles:

Part 583 American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) Reports | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

What was interesting to me, was that the Toyota Tundra has a domestic content of 80%, whereas the Ford F-Series is only 55%. GM Silverado/Sierra is 65% and the Chrysler/Dodge RAM is 76%.

So the Toyota has the highest domestic content of any of the most popular pick-ups as defined by the government.

Does this mean that the Tundra is the most "American" of all of the pick-ups?!?!?!
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:30 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Steamy1 View Post

Does this mean that the Tundra is the most "American" of all of the pick-ups?!?!?!
Someone will probably post that it's a Japanese company, therefore, it's not an American truck. Somehow this reminds me of the "one drop" rule.

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Old 01-05-2011, 04:23 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Woody.303 View Post
If you buy a 4x4, get the manual hubs. You'll thank me later.
I thought you could "automagically" engage them from inside the truck - but in a bind just climb out and manually lock them....
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:07 AM   #247
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I pull an 08 27 ft Classic with an 08 Tundra and it pulls like a dream...Very nice marrage betweem TV and load..
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:25 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Capttom View Post
I pull an 08 27 ft Classic with an 08 Tundra and it pulls like a dream...Very nice marrage betweem TV and load..
Welcome to the forums. I am also very pleased with my 07 Tundra.


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Old 01-13-2011, 08:48 AM   #249
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Welcome to the forums Capttom. I am just down the road in Lynchburg. I tow with an 08 Tundra and love it. Every TV is a compromise and the Tundra works well for me. Call me anytime at 434-401-4060 if you like.


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