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Old 01-28-2008, 02:56 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by BillTex
Time, good for you, I cringe whenever I think about what you went through with the Ford 6.0 deezul-too bad. Hopefuly Ford's new motor will fair much better...

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Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Thanks BillTex,
I must say that in the future our domestic manufacturers will be developing lighter weight TVs that are capable of loads once thought to be in the 3/4 to 1 ton truck territory. The non-domestic manufacturers are already pretty far in that direction.



Not sure what you mean here? Where do you see an advantage with the foreign mfrs?
All the 1/2 tons are towing somewhere in the 10,000-11,000 range?
All have ~1600# payloads?

Chevy is the current mpg leader at ~ 22 mpg highway...

1/2 tons as a group, are splitting hairs with their ratings, just as 3/4 tons (all 3 are now a VERY close match, particlularly the diesel engine hp and torque ratings).
I don't really see any standouts. Just a matter of personal tastes, and loyalties.

Pay load and capacities are shifting across the board, not just for 1/2 tons, just as the 1/2 tons gain performance, so do the 3/4 and 1 tons...
But I do agree, the current crop of 1/2 tons are the most capable yet...(at least on paper).The SAE ratings will be ineteresting when they are published.

Stream on!
Bill
Bill,

What I meant was that foreign manufacturers have been in the business of making smaller vehicles producing higher pound/pound towing capability, where domestics have always made heavy/large vehicles. Analogy...Formula One vs Indy Cars. Today, the trend in all markets is to be lighter and/or smaller vehicles, yet still maintaining the performance and utility, whether it be cars, trucks or race cars. Of course I am generalizing. My point is that the foreign brands started the trend (probably due to market conditions of less space and higher fuel costs) and the domestic market is catching on. Thus we have all new 1/2 ton trucks with performance characteristics that are close to the older (not sure how much older, 3 years or 20 years) 3/4 standards.

Does that make sense.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:11 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Bill,

What I meant was that foreign manufacturers have been in the business of making smaller vehicles producing higher pound/pound towing capability, where domestics have always made heavy/large vehicles. Analogy...Formula One vs Indy Cars. Today, the trend in all markets is to be lighter and/or smaller vehicles, yet still maintaining the performance and utility, whether it be cars, trucks or race cars. Of course I am generalizing. My point is that the foreign brands started the trend (probably due to market conditions of less space and higher fuel costs) and the domestic market is catching on. Thus we have all new 1/2 ton trucks with performance characteristics that are close to the older (not sure how much older, 3 years or 20 years) 3/4 standards.

Does that make sense.
Yes, Time-now I understand. Amazing how high fuel costs are finally pushing us to newer, more efficient designs.
Chevy's hybrid 1/2 ton, and cyclinder de-activation technology, as well as the proposed "small diesel" 1/2 ton's by Ford and GM are all examples of that.

Maybe further advances in suspension will help us also...

Sure hope this "downsizing" allows us to continue our silver obsession in the future...

Bill
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:51 PM   #171
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Real life answer

I know this thread is old and tired, but can't help but throw in my two cents. I tow a 28"ccd, formerly with the 6.0 psd Excursion. Great towing, endless power, hardly knew it was there, 12-14 mpg towing, accelerating up hills past sports cars - but tons of mechanical difficulty with the psd, and pretty miserable to have to drive the Excursion on a daily basis. Traded the X on an 07 Tundra Crewmax 5.7L. While I love the truck, the gas just doesn't compare to the diesel when it comes to towing. I added airbags to help the rear sag, and so now the towing is alright, but I would not want to be taking any mountain trips, or trips between towns with more that 250 miles bt gas, as I'm getting 9 or 10 mpg towing. In short, on the eight or ten occasions a year that I tow, I really miss the Ford 3/4 ton diesel... but the Toyota gets it done, brakes are great, stability no problem (Hensley Hitch).
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:19 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Rosie39j
I know this thread is old and tired, but can't help but throw in my two cents. I tow a 28"ccd, formerly with the 6.0 psd Excursion. Great towing, endless power, hardly knew it was there, 12-14 mpg towing, accelerating up hills past sports cars - but tons of mechanical difficulty with the psd, and pretty miserable to have to drive the Excursion on a daily basis. Traded the X on an 07 Tundra Crewmax 5.7L. While I love the truck, the gas just doesn't compare to the diesel when it comes to towing. I added airbags to help the rear sag, and so now the towing is alright, but I would not want to be taking any mountain trips, or trips between towns with more that 250 miles bt gas, as I'm getting 9 or 10 mpg towing. In short, on the eight or ten occasions a year that I tow, I really miss the Ford 3/4 ton diesel... but the Toyota gets it done, brakes are great, stability no problem (Hensley Hitch).
Sounds like a POS PSD turned you off on diesels, at least long enough for you to buy a gasser. I agree, when our PSD was running, it was quite the towing machine, of course I only got 10 mpg, not as good as your 12-14 mpg, so I was a little less impressed from the wallet side of the story.

Question? Do you think a higher payload capacity on the Tundra would help or is it the HP/torque that is lacking thus your comment about not wanting to do mountain towing? Just curious.

Here is the reason I changed my stripes-----
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:41 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
...Here is the reason I changed my stripes-----
so u were having trouble with the super duty, trying to mate with other trucks?

according to the owners manual towing with the rear wheels down isn't ok...

"...On 4x2 vehicles, it is acceptable to tow the vehicle with the front wheels
on the ground and the rear wheels off the ground using a wheel lift
On 4x4 vehicles, it is recommended that your vehicle be towed using
flatbed equipment with all the wheels off the ground. However, a wheel
lift may be used to lift the rear of the vehicle so long as, depending on
vehicle configurations, the following preparations are met:
• On Electronic Shift-On-the-Fly (ESOF) vehicles, the 4WD control is
turned to the 2WD position prior to towing.
• On manual-shift transfer case vehicles, the front wheel hub locks are
in the FREE position prior to towing.
Note: Towing an ESOF 4WD vehicle with the front wheels on the ground
without disengaging the front hubs may cause damage to the automatic
transmission.

Note: Towing an a 4x2 or an ESOF 4WD vehicle with the rear wheels on
the ground for more than 50 miles (80 km) and/or in excess of 35 mph
(56 km/h) may cause damage to the automatic transmission..."


mine was flat bedded with the trailer on the wrecker ball...

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:11 AM   #174
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Got to wake up a bit earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
so u were having trouble with the super duty, trying to mate with other trucks?

according to the owners manual towing with the rear wheels down isn't ok...

"...On 4x2 vehicles, it is acceptable to tow the vehicle with the front wheels
on the ground and the rear wheels off the ground using a wheel lift
On 4x4 vehicles, it is recommended that your vehicle be towed using
flatbed equipment with all the wheels off the ground. However, a wheel
lift may be used to lift the rear of the vehicle so long as, depending on
vehicle configurations, the following preparations are met:
• On Electronic Shift-On-the-Fly (ESOF) vehicles, the 4WD control is
turned to the 2WD position prior to towing.
• On manual-shift transfer case vehicles, the front wheel hub locks are
in the FREE position prior to towing.
Note: Towing an ESOF 4WD vehicle with the front wheels on the ground
without disengaging the front hubs may cause damage to the automatic
transmission.

Note: Towing an a 4x2 or an ESOF 4WD vehicle with the rear wheels on
the ground for more than 50 miles (80 km) and/or in excess of 35 mph
(56 km/h) may cause damage to the automatic transmission..."


mine was flat bedded with the trailer on the wrecker ball...

cheers
2air'
2air,

Good catch...however, understanding basic towing applications and always making sure I have the owners manual in the cab, I had the very capable tow operator call Ford and ask the correct procedure to tow the truck and trailer in tandem. As recommended and confirmed by the Ford technician, it is acceptable to tow the 4X4 with the rear wheels down IF the drive shaft is disconnected. Of course the picture does not show the disconnected driveshaft, but I can assure you that it was, I have the scars to prove it.

time
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:40 AM   #175
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Yup - that's what my tow operator did as well; disconnected the drive shaft prior to towing.

No scars though, hee hee! I watched the guy disconnect it then watched him reconnect it at the dealer's lot before we left. I applauded, of course.

Pat
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:53 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmclemore
Yup - that's what my tow operator did as well; disconnected the drive shaft prior to towing.

No scars though, hee hee! I watched the guy disconnect it then watched him reconnect it at the dealer's lot before we left. I applauded, of course.

Pat
Funny pat,

My scars were from me being down on my hands and knees making sure he put it back on right and tight.......don't want anybody to think you one up'd me.....my scarring kept me from applauding, so you got me there.

time
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:03 PM   #177
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Speaking of that, the tow truck driver used one of those folding windshield heat shields to lie on so that he cound roll around under the truck without scraping around in the gravel. Then he just folded it back up and placed it behind the seat when he was done. I think that counts as a real helpful low-tech trick.

Now if I can sneak the one my Dad uses (for his windshield), I'll be in business. Don't tell.

Pat
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Old 02-02-2008, 05:03 AM   #178
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Wow! Lots of good info on towing 4x4 and trailer combo. Have not had the need yet (hopefully never).
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:47 AM   #179
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Streamer, you never know. Mine was the result of the mechanic who last serviced the truck - and failed to reconnect the fuel-water sensor correcty. Took 3k miles of towing, some on washboard roads, but when it fell off I was close to the middle of nowhere (Ganado, AZ) on a Sunday morning.

Good Sam ERS provided and paid for the tow to a GM dealership 60 miles away. I never leave home without it.

Pat
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:31 AM   #180
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Question Hah

Happy to see that you can tow both the AS and the tow vehicle, but any opinions on using an HAH at an angle of about 15 degrees?

Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:10 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by SRW
...you can tow both the AS and the tow vehicle, but any opinions on using an HAH at an angle of about 15 degrees?...
given my rig is 57 ft +, i'd never let a wrecker drag them this way, it's just tooooo much length.

but with a SHORTER combo the haha should be fine...

provided the w/d bars are backed off to near zero tension,

as should be done with ANY w/d hitch used while the truck is nose up in the wind...

of course the sway control on the haha is unaffected by w/d,

so IF your sway only works with adequate w/d tension...

OR is the trailer tongue weight OVERLOADS the tv rear axle/tires when w/d is relaxed...

that's just two more reasons to disengage and try another wrecker/towing arrangement...

cheers
2air'

yet another issue is blinkers/flashers lights on the trailer while in tow....

IF the wrecker/tow truck cannot have flashers, or brake lights or directional signals operable on the trailer...

they may not tow ya', especially in the dark and depending on state regulations...
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:03 PM   #182
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For what it's worth…

We have about 10-15 inches of hard packed wind driven snow on the ground and my driveway had gotten pretty bad and real slick. A friend came part way up in his 4wd Tacoma with all season (i.e., useless) tires and drove off the driveway into the hard pack. I hooked a tow chain to my 5.7L Tundra and basically dragged him in Low Range 1st a hundred yards until he could steer his way onto the driveway. It was like he wasn't there. More fun than towing a trailer because I got to insult his truck (he's a good friend). I was impressed with the capability of the Tundra especially given how slick the snow was.

I don't understand how Rosie feels her Tundra isn't up to mountain towing. I haven't had a a problem and get 11.5 mpg towing (less over the 10-12,000' passes). Her Crewmax is probably heavier than my Doublecab but I wouldn't think it would make that much difference.

I just got in from using the snowblower on the driveway—4 passes at 850 feet each plus more by the house and garage—2/3 mile. I am beat.

Gene
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