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Old 01-08-2008, 08:19 PM   #155
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handn

My 25 foot Safari weighs about 6000 loaded with fluids. I have towed it with both 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks, the latter a diesel 2000 Excursion. I live in Colorado so I go up and down the passes up to 12,000 feet.
I endorse what others have said about the vast difference in performance and comfort with the 3/4 ton being superior. It is not only performance going up the mountains at altitude but it is also braking, sway control, being pushed around corners and hanging on with white knuckles when that Greyhound passes you at 75 mph.
There is no doubt that a half ton truck is a lot better to drive without a trailer. My Excursion rides rough, takes care to park and is not fun in the city.
It is about use. If you plan on lots of towing, particularly in the mountains, don't even consider a half ton even a good one like a Tundra. If you plan light towing on relitively flat roads at lower altitudes go with the half ton. Most of your use will be without a trailer.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:03 PM   #156
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I haven't had any of the problems with my Tundra, including the 12,000' passes, that handn had with a 1/2 ton (wonder what brand it was?). Braking is great, no white knuckles, no sway, etc. It doesn't ride rough and it does take care to park and kind of big in the city, but excellent handling and good turning circle for a big truck.

The US vs. Japan debate goes on and on and on…

Gene
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:52 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I haven't had any of the problems with my Tundra, including the 12,000' passes, that handn had with a 1/2 ton (wonder what brand it was?). Braking is great, no white knuckles, no sway, etc. It doesn't ride rough and it does take care to park and kind of big in the city, but excellent handling and good turning circle for a big truck.

The US vs. Japan debate goes on and on and on…

Gene
Gene, not trying to slam you, but these sentiments are often expressed by those who have not had the benefit of towing with both 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks.
What you consider an "acceptable" towing experience with a 1/2 ton becomes a pleasure cruise with a 3/4 ton. There is no comparison; a 1/2 ton is a compromise between car and truck. A 3/4 ton is a tool.
I am not saying everyone needs a 3/4 ton. Depends on you mission; 25' and over 6000#? Thousands of tow miles each year? Oh yeah-3/4 ton time.
Towing a lighter unit just once/twice per season? Maybe get by with a 1/2...

See handn's post and many others on this forum (and elsewhere).

That argument is not US vs. Japan.

We have yet to hear from anyone that went back to a 1/2 from a 3/4 ton...

Bill
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:30 PM   #158
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Bill, the only way we'd ever resolve this is for you to drive my Tundra and me to drive your 3/4 ton. Until then, you'll have to take my word that 2,600 miles of towing have been uneventful and we have had none of the problems others have had with 1/2 ton trucks. People with much more towing experience than I who have the new generation Tundras also report on many threads they have no problems.

I suggested some time ago the Tundra may be a 5/8 ton. Maybe other 1/2 tons are different. I know my '02 Tundra was a lightweight compared to the '07 I now have.

Actually we will be in RI, probably in May, but without the Airstream and probably without the Tundra. The trip is to NYC, but my wife has never been to RI and I was only briefly in Providence 50 years ago. I hope we don't overshoot and find ourselves in Mass. We saw Delaware last year and that only took a few hours. I think RI is more interesting, but I'm sure Delawarians will protest.

Gene, unslammed
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:18 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Bill, the only way we'd ever resolve this is for you to drive my Tundra and me to drive your 3/4 ton. Until then, you'll have to take my word that 2,600 miles of towing have been uneventful and we have had none of the problems others have had with 1/2 ton trucks. People with much more towing experience than I who have the new generation Tundras also report on many threads they have no problems.

I suggested some time ago the Tundra may be a 5/8 ton. Maybe other 1/2 tons are different. I know my '02 Tundra was a lightweight compared to the '07 I now have.

Actually we will be in RI, probably in May, but without the Airstream and probably without the Tundra. The trip is to NYC, but my wife has never been to RI and I was only briefly in Providence 50 years ago. I hope we don't overshoot and find ourselves in Mass. We saw Delaware last year and that only took a few hours. I think RI is more interesting, but I'm sure Delawarians will protest.

Gene, unslammed
Gene, I am glad your 2600 miles have been uneventful. I hope they remain so. But their is a big difference in towing a good sized load (this would not apply to lighter loads-say under 5000#-a 1/2 ton is plenty for this) with a 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton. I have owned, and towed with 5 different 1/2 tons before getting our current truck (3/4 ton) The chassis/brakes/suspension is an entirely different animal. Had I not experienced both, I would not understand either. This has nothing to do with the manufacturer.

You are welcome to drive my truck when you come to RI.
Untill you hookup and head out you don't really understand, you just have to "feel" the difference under load.

The previous generation Toyota was more of a mid size (think "Dodge Dakota"). I will admit the current Toyota truck is finally a full size 1/2 ton. And probably a nice one.
I never said there were any "problems" particular to the Toyota towing. But let's call a spade a spade...
Everything about it puts it in the same league as every other 1/2 ton out there. Nothing more.

There are many here who have been this route and will agree with this experience. And as of yet, I don't know of anyone that went back to a 1/2 ton...don't be surprised if you do the same at some point!

This is a post that sought to make comparisons between apples and bananas...

Where will you be in RI?
Don't blink...you'll end up in Cape Cod!

Bill
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:37 PM   #160
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"Where will you be in RI?"

Bill, I don't have clue. It's only January and we don't leave until May. We're going to NYC for my 50th HS reunion and my Colorado native wife wants to see all of NYC as if I remember where anything is (or was!). Newport, Providence, all the bays, maybe if there's a car ferry to L.Is. we'd go back to NY that way. I'm trying to figure out how to do all this in a couple of weeks (ha!) and stop in Bethlehem, Pa. (college alma mater there) and see Gettysburg. We'll need a rocket car, but will take the 4Runner. I need to figure this out soon to fit it in with our obligations here. In the meantime, go to a Toyota dealer and drive a Tundra and see how it feels (maybe they'll let you tow with it; that would be fun). It's muito bem.

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Old 01-09-2008, 09:38 PM   #161
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7900 miles 2008 f150 28 foot safari michigan /california/ michigan oct 1 -nov 15. Now on the road same trip but through march 15 th and pulling 65 mph at 11.0 on e85 avg 11 MPG-/ Currently gong into Ft.Collins Co.

By end of March we will have towed over 16k, and guys this heavy half ton crew cab is kicking butt. It rides smooth both unloaded or towing. I am waiting for something to go wrong, but so far nothing. NOTHING.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:39 AM   #162
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If you are interested in what kind of trailers, weights and sizes are being pulled by the new 5.7 Tundras with 6 speed automatics, check this site:

what size travel trailer are you towing - Tundra Solutions Forum

I currently pull a 30' AS and IMHO, the new Tundra when everything is taken into consideration, is the best tow vehicle for pulling a trailer the size and configuration of Airstreams. I started towing Airstreams in 1965 and have towed with all kinds and types of pickups over the years and when power, comfort, size, durability, driving ease and reliability are taken into consideration, Toyota wins hands down. I would say to those on this site who are running down Toyotas and claiming that your 3/4 ton domestic trucks are the only truck to tow with, is that most of you have never towed with or used a Toyota and have nothing to compare to. Don't run down a Toyota or any other vehicle if you have never had first hand experience with them. From my experience, the 3/4 and 1 tons pull good but they also have to be driven to the grocery store and other places and that is not always fun.

Billy
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:40 AM   #163
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VERY interesting posts over at the Tundra Solutions Forum.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:47 AM   #164
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Let’s word that post a little differently;

I currently pull an xx' AS and IMHO, a ¾ ton truck, when everything is taken into consideration, is the best tow vehicle for pulling a trailer the size and configuration of Airstreams. I started towing Airstreams in 19xx and have towed with all kinds and types of pickups over the years and when power, comfort, size, durability, driving ease, and reliability are taken into consideration, a ¾ ton wins hands down. I would say to those on this site who are running down ¾ ton and claiming that your ½ ton trucks are the only truck to tow with is that most of you have never towed with or used a ¾ ton and have nothing to compare to. Don't run down a ¾ ton vehicle, if you have never had first hand experience with them. From my experience, the 1/2 tons pull good but they should only be driven to the grocery store and other places, and that is not always fun.

Bill
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:21 AM   #165
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great info

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyii
If you are interested in what kind of trailers, weights and sizes are being pulled by the new 5.7 Tundras with 6 speed automatics, check this site:

what size travel trailer are you towing - Tundra Solutions Forum

I currently pull a 30' AS and IMHO, the new Tundra when everything is taken into consideration, is the best tow vehicle for pulling a trailer the size and configuration of Airstreams. I started towing Airstreams in 1965 and have towed with all kinds and types of pickups over the years and when power, comfort, size, durability, driving ease and reliability are taken into consideration, Toyota wins hands down. I would say to those on this site who are running down Toyotas and claiming that your 3/4 ton domestic trucks are the only truck to tow with, is that most of you have never towed with or used a Toyota and have nothing to compare to. Don't run down a Toyota or any other vehicle if you have never had first hand experience with them. From my experience, the 3/4 and 1 tons pull good but they also have to be driven to the grocery store and other places and that is not always fun.

Billy
Billy,

Thanks for the info, it certainly proves there are a lot of Tundra owners who pull good size trailers and are very satisfied. Although there may be a few on this forum may have a bit of a bias toward domestics, most of us are well balanced and appreciate all information that helps others in decisions about their Airstream and TV.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:42 AM   #166
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Hey Timemachine, have you had a chance to hookup that new 3/4 ton Hemi yet?

That is one sharp looking truck!
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:57 PM   #167
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We have towed and liked it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex
Hey Timemachine, have you had a chance to hookup that new 3/4 ton Hemi yet?

That is one sharp looking truck!
Thanks BillTex,

And yep, we already have two trips under our belt, about 1000 miles total. The Dodge 3/4 ton Power Wagon with the Hemi/5speed auto is a great match with our Safari 25FB. The Cajon pass was a breeze as well as maintaining momentum in all conditions, including passing slow rigs. As I have mentioned before, the gearing is key to using a small block gasser in a 3/4 ton truck. Fuel mileage was impressive for a gasser that is not broken in yet, averaging 11.0 mpg (driving @ 60 to 65 mph) and it is improving as we put on miles. I know that isn't the 15 or 16 mpg some of the diesel guys are getting while towing, but is better than I got with my F250 PSD, so I am very pleased. The performance and ride has surpassed my expectation.

Keep in mind that Dodge Power Wagon has a much softer spring setting than typical 3/4 tons, so it's tow rating is about the same as most new 1/2 tons, around 10,600 lbs. The 2061 payload is a bit higher than most 1/2 tons, which is helpful. The big difference for me is that it has a massive frame and brakes to match, so for me, it is more within my safety zone, especially coming from a diesel, crew cab, long bed, 4X4.

I must say that in the future our domestic manufacturers will be developing lighter weight TVs that are capable of loads once thought to be in the 3/4 to 1 ton truck territory. The non-domestic manufacturers are already pretty far in that direction. I personally look more at what the TV does as opposed to what they call it, the specifications are a guide, experience will determine the true capability. I still maintain it is about personal choice, and forum threads like this help us make our own choice, with the help and experience of others.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:29 PM   #168
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Time, good for you, I cringe whenever I think about what you went through with the Ford 6.0 deezul-too bad. Hopefuly Ford's new motor will fair much better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Thanks BillTex,
I must say that in the future our domestic manufacturers will be developing lighter weight TVs that are capable of loads once thought to be in the 3/4 to 1 ton truck territory. The non-domestic manufacturers are already pretty far in that direction.
Not sure what you mean here? Where do you see an advantage with the foreign mfrs?
All the 1/2 tons are towing somewhere in the 10,000-11,000 range?
All have ~1600# payloads?

Chevy is the current mpg leader at ~ 22 mpg highway...

1/2 tons as a group, are splitting hairs with their ratings, just as 3/4 tons (all 3 are now a VERY close match, particlularly the diesel engine hp and torque ratings).
I don't really see any standouts. Just a matter of personal tastes, and loyalties.

Pay load and capacities are shifting across the board, not just for 1/2 tons, just as the 1/2 tons gain performance, so do the 3/4 and 1 tons...
But I do agree, the current crop of 1/2 tons are the most capable yet...(at least on paper).The SAE ratings will be ineteresting when they are published.

Stream on!
Bill
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