Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-02-2008, 07:04 PM   #141
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
Invincibility

I agree Toyota is not quite as invincible as it was 5 or so years ago, but compare it's reliability with other manufacturers and they're are still doing better. If Toyota and other foreign manufacturers had not made far superior vehicles than GM, Ford and Chrysler, I am sure the American companies would still be producing the garbage they made in the '70's, '80's and beyond. It's not just reliabilityóit's innovation too. For example, disk brakes were an American invention, but none of the American manufacturers would use them until they were forced to by competition from abroad.

I am unhappy with the reports about the new Tundra, but look at all the recalls other manufacturers have had. The sludge problem 10 or more years ago in the Toyota 6 cylinder engines was fixed a long time ago and a lot of people got new engines. How many recalls did the US companies have in the '90's?

Next truck, 5 or more years away, but if Toyota has slipped a lot, I'll look at other companies, and would be glad to buy a GMC or Ford or whatever if they really are as good as Toyota. I'm glad US companies are catching up, but it seems they are being dragged against their will and I wonder how sincere they are in building good vehicles and having more pride in their products.

Gene
__________________

__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2008, 08:52 AM   #142
Rivet Master
 
Denis4x4's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Currently Looking...
Durango , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,111
I thought that the Ford v. Chevy v. Dodge was settled back in the fifties when I was in high school!

I am curious as to how many die hard Toyota/Nissan truck buyers actually looked at domestic brands before making a buying decision. The (earned) perception that Detroit turned out crap in the seventies and eighties is no longer true. We just purchased our third Chrysler T&C van and we've yet to have a door fall off like the Toyota vans!
__________________

__________________
Denis4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 08:22 PM   #143
Rivet Master
 
Ed Emerick's Avatar
 
1968 30' Sovereign
1959 18' "Footer"
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Brussels , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 604
Tundra and a Larger AS

Well it took some time but I have read through all of these posts and still wonder if I should go Tundra. I am currently pulling with an 04, ĺ ton, 8.1 Suburban. The truck will tow! But I am getting fed up with the shop time this truck is putting me through and started looking for the next tow vehicle. The wife keeps saying remember the Toyotas we have had and how they never gave us a problem you need to look at the Tundra. So being the good husband that I am, I am listening to my wife and I have started that process. I started with reading the posts on this thread as well as some others on the Tundra. What I see is a bunch of 25ís being towed but not much on the larger trailers. What I read is the 08, 5.7 Tundra has a towing capacity of 10,100 lbs, that should be enough for my 1968 30í Sovereign or my 1988 29í Excella, or am I wrong? Anyone out there pulling a 29 or 30 with a Tundra?
__________________
Ed Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 09:04 PM   #144
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
Payload is the deal breaker

Ed, depending on which Tundra (4wd, regular, double or crew cab, engine size, trim level), all the numbers are different. Towing capacity ranges from 10,100 to 10,800, GCVWR is usually 16,000. The issue is payload and tongue weight. Payload ranges from 1350 to 2065. I'm told the weight of the pre-2000 A/S's is somewhat less than now and the tongue weight must be too. I have a 2008 Safari with a tongue wt. rating of 720, but that may be low considering options. When you add the Tundra options (many are always on the trucks) and the humans in the truck, I think I'm pretty close to 90% of payload, but to be sure I'd have to weigh all the axles. There's a lot of information on other threads about how much tongue weight is transferred forward and back by a weight distributing hitch receiver and a weight distributing anti-sway system (I have an Equalizer). The engineers have posted formulae I can't understand on other threads, but A/S says 1/3 to the trailer axle(s), 1/3 to the TV front axle and 1/3 to the TV rear axle. So (if I remember it correctly) 2/3 goes against payload. The 5.7 L engine has a lot of power and if I wanted to run it hard, I could go 70 up major Colorado passes. Since you have 3 A/S's, you probably know a lot of this.

For me, payload was the question and a new 25' was pretty much the limit. I think that's why you see "a bunch of 25ís being towed but not much on the larger trailers." I wish Toyota had beefed up the Tundra a little more, but it seems to be more than a 1/2 ton and less than a 3/4 ton. Generally, the more you pay, the lower the payload.

We have bought Toyotas since '99 because of reliability. I'm too old to fix cars or trucks by the side of the highway and with computers I'm mystified anyway (oh, for the days when I could reset points with a matchbook cover and a Swiss army knife, except now I never have to do a tune up). Sorry to read about your shop time, something we have rarely experienced since '99.

Most of the towing information is in the fancy booklet Toyota has for Tundras and should be at the dealer. It might be online too. It's also in the owner's manual toward the back.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 10:10 PM   #145
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi ed

i don't own or tow with a 1/2 ton...

but i think the new tundra would work fine with all 3 of your trailers...

the 88 excella should have the highest tongue mass but still much less than new 30s.

your older trailers should be easy towing...

of course the f-150 would work well with all your trailers too.

have u driven them yet?

i love test driving new trucks!

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 11:42 PM   #146
4 Rivet Member
 
Motoman's Avatar
 
2005 25' International CCD
1960 18' "Footer"
1959 26' Overlander
Riverside , California
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 334
Images: 3
Longevity for the diesel engine and drivetrain may be more of a benefit than mileage now that diesel is equal to or just higher than premium. Most people say 250K to 300K miles for the Dodge Cummins vs 100K to 150K for the Gasser. We are seeing 13 to 14 mpg towing, 14+ around town solo and 18 to 20 mpg on the highway solo. Lastly, don't just believe the trip computers, our is optimistic showing 1 to 2 mpg better than actual. Remember math classes, the real numbers are miles per tank divided by gallons at each fill up and yes, I am an engineer!

BTW, Kevbo, those breakdowns must have been on the return home trip. Were they Dodge or some other brand? Also I remember being told there was either a HEMI breakdown or it ran real thirsty as in ran out of gas before we caught up with the group heading to the Fiesta!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevbo10
if it isn't a HEMI, why bother...

diesel: you pay more for the truck, for the fuel, there not reliable... just came back from the new mexico balloon fiesta w/ 22 'dream streams. only two breakdowns. both diesels.... Hemi's sure ran fast and better mileage too...

flame away...

just sayin,

kevbo
__________________
Don (KD6UVT) & Gail Williams

What do you want to be in life, a spectator or a participant?

SNU #157
FCU #004
Motoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 12:30 AM   #147
4 Rivet Member
 
Motoman's Avatar
 
2005 25' International CCD
1960 18' "Footer"
1959 26' Overlander
Riverside , California
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 334
Images: 3
Sorry folks, got to reading two great threads and posted here what should have been in the We dumped our Diesel for a gasser thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoman
Longevity for the diesel engine and drivetrain may be more of a benefit than mileage now that diesel is equal to or just higher than premium.
__________________
Don (KD6UVT) & Gail Williams

What do you want to be in life, a spectator or a participant?

SNU #157
FCU #004
Motoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 01:05 AM   #148
Rivet Master
 
TIMEMACHINE's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Huntington Beach , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,293
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoman
Longevity for the diesel engine and drivetrain may be more of a benefit than mileage now that diesel is equal to or just higher than premium. Most people say 250K to 300K miles for the Dodge Cummins vs 100K to 150K for the Gasser. We are seeing 13 to 14 mpg towing, 14+ around town solo and 18 to 20 mpg on the highway solo. Lastly, don't just believe the trip computers, our is optimistic showing 1 to 2 mpg better than actual. Remember math classes, the real numbers are miles per tank divided by gallons at each fill up and yes, I am an engineer!

BTW, Kevbo, those breakdowns must have been on the return home trip. Were they Dodge or some other brand? Also I remember being told there was either a HEMI breakdown or it ran real thirsty as in ran out of gas before we caught up with the group heading to the Fiesta!
Hey Don,

One of Kevbo's referenced breakdowns was our F250 PSD blowing a hole in its intercooler with less than 20,000 miles on the clock, I think the other was another Ford PSD, but I don't know if it was a drivetrain problem or a flat tire?? The referenced vehicle that almost ran out of gas was not a Dodge Hemi, it was a Nissan Pathfinder with a Bambi, with a very small gas tank. I also believe that one of the reasons we all here so much about Hemis getting poor fuel economy is because they are sooooo much fun to drive and most of us just plain have trouble keeping our foot off the throttle....just saying it is kinda impulsive.

Dodge Ram CTDs do have excellent reliability statistics and a very high satisfaction rating from owners.

I agree that the longevity of the diesel powered TV may be more benefit than the fuel economy with more restrictive emissions and diesel fuel prices rising above gas, but most of all, the low RPM torque would be the biggest asset of the diesel in my book. Longevity is only a value if you put on lots of miles per year, because 78% of us don't keep our vehicles more than 5 years. So even if one drove 20,000 miles per year, that would only be 100,000 miles in 5 years, way below the payback threshold or longevity value proposition. The safety and electronic features of the latest model trucks keep us upgrading long before the useful value of our trucks are absorbed. I am not saying that a lot of folks don't keep trucks long enough or drive enough miles to make a diesel pay off, I just believe it is the minority.

I will kind of repeat myself, if your pulling big weight and put on lots of miles, get a diesel and don't look back, but if you are not in that situation, you do have other choices that me be better suited for your specific need. Each brands portfolio has pros and cons, and sometimes our choice has nothing to do with logic....and I am one who believes it doesn't have to if it makes you smile while your chuggin down the road.

time
__________________
Travel is in my blood, adventure is my passport, aluminum is my favorite construction medium, and therefore, an Airstream was my destiny.
TIMEMACHINE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 08:31 AM   #149
4 Rivet Member
 
flitzwhopper's Avatar
 
1976 Argosy 24
Tempe , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 326
Heavy foot...

Exactly. I know that some of our poor milage is due to exuberance in acceleration. We have a 5 speed manual. Wow! what fun to wind it up until the governor starts dropping pulses - then shift. Now if we could just find a Hurst competition shifter for the NV5400 - yes I know, no such thing.
__________________
Donna & Mike
Cowboy up! or go sit in the truck

Charter Member Four Corners Unit

WBCCI #2417
flitzwhopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 03:34 PM   #150
Rivet Master
 
Ed Emerick's Avatar
 
1968 30' Sovereign
1959 18' "Footer"
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Brussels , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 604
2air
I agree, the fun part is the test drive. Maybe that’s what I’ll do this weekend! I have driven the Ford products in the past but they seem to ride hard.

I guess I’ll go weigh the tongues of the 29 and the 30 and figure out the GCWR and see if this will work. My gut tells me the Tundra will have a problem with the overall weight of the larger trailers, I’ll go talk to the dealer and let them fill me with BS to sell a truck!

My other problem is I like to go fast up hill and pull with the cruise on, the 8.1 Suburban will let me do that.

Ed
__________________
Ed Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 03:55 PM   #151
1 Rivet Short
 
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay , Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,547
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Emerick
2air
I agree, the fun part is the test drive. Maybe thatís what Iíll do this weekend! I have driven the Ford products in the past but they seem to ride hard.

I guess Iíll go weigh the tongues of the 29 and the 30 and figure out the GCWR and see if this will work. My gut tells me the Tundra will have a problem with the overall weight of the larger trailers, Iíll go talk to the dealer and let them fill me with BS to sell a truck!

My other problem is I like to go fast up hill and pull with the cruise on, the 8.1 Suburban will let me do that.

Ed
Ed, while some have gone from gas to diesel or vice versa, I don't know of anyone who has gone from a 3/4 ton to a 1/2 ton.
My gut tells me you would be very disappointed in the towing characteristics of a 1/2 after having such a substantial TV.
It would be an interesting expirement. Glad I won't be paying for it!

It would be great (but doubtful) if they would let you hook up an tow your heaviest to check it out...

Keep us posted.

Bill
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
BillTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 07:46 PM   #152
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi ed

3 things to remember on test drives...

-most of the truck tires are UNDER inflated to soften the ride 4 a sucker (i mean the buyer)

-a 'firm riding' truck is much more at ease while towing.

-try to ditch the salesguy before the test ride!

my 250 is a 3/4 ton brute solo..

but hitched to the 34 and loaded with gear...

it is actually very smooth.

i completely agree with 'gene that payload is the weak parameter on the tundra,

but it is 1600+ lbs.

and the new 150s are pretty darn nice.

if you really love that 'burb, a new crate motor is an option...

are all the service issue old burning related or have u got tranny, brake, electrical and suspension issues too?

happy shopping!

2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 08:12 PM   #153
Rivet Master
 
Ed Emerick's Avatar
 
1968 30' Sovereign
1959 18' "Footer"
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Brussels , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 604
Suburban is a good truck but...........

2air and all,
No, major problems now, ya know little things like quitting when hot, had that fix with a crank sensor, 4X4 sensor, window that would not go up, auto ride link that broke, ball joint, little crap that sends it back to the shop on a regular basis. It has 79,000+ on it and I have the extended warranty that I got the purchase price back on now. But over all when hooked to the AS (any one of them and I have to be real careful with the 59!) it is a great puller. But I am thinking its time to trade, 4 years is long enough but then again who knows. I like the Suburban comfort, the LT package with all the bells, the ride is great, the MPG is 11, with or without the trailers. At one point I was going to go Chevy long bed crew cab ĺ diesel, then the Toyota came up, then the price of fuel jumped again, and I like the Suburban better than the PU ( the dogs have to ride in comfort!), so heck I donít know.

I do know I pulled with a Ĺ ton Suburban for 5-6 years and was not happy, so I have a feeling I wonít be happy with the Tundra in the long run.

I wonder if they would let me pull before I buy ? Might be a thing to check out this weekend.
__________________
Ed Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2008, 08:15 PM   #154
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Emerick
...I wonder if they would let me pull before I buy ? Might be a thing to check out this weekend.
IF you show up with the trailer and burb...

and a wad of CASH,

they just might!

please take pictures for us too

cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel Foiled Again Tow Vehicles 23 10-18-2007 10:01 AM
Chevy 2500 HD question? rebel beck Tow Vehicles 35 03-06-2007 08:31 PM
Titan vs GMC 2500 ? Daniel LOUIS Tow Vehicles 18 08-27-2005 03:45 PM
Suburban 2500 springs George Jr. Tow Vehicles 9 07-22-2005 11:59 AM
Will 2000 Dodge RAM 2500 with Cummins 5.9L tow A/S well? idahosafari Tow Vehicles 23 03-11-2004 03:34 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.