Winter Living

[Rubyslipper]

Ahhh,in my hast I started a new thread"Thawed".Sorry Moe it was your idea for the candle in a can.Hex ole buddy..yuz one funny dude.As for what we are building up here it has something to do with Nukes.The leason we learnt concerning the freeze up was to disconnect the holding tank drain hose and to only connect when we need to dump.I am leaving the blinds opened half way and keeping the little fan blowing at night.We are going to add some pink insullation inside the bottom window mouldings.Keeping at it everyday.Tommorrow we are going to the little town of Hermann,MO and drink wine and watch the ice flow on the Missouri river.A much deserved break.PRAY FOR PEACE.Ruby

[RoadKingMoe]

No problem, Ruby. I'm learnin' SO MUCH about wintering in an AS from you should we have to!

I'm convinced I need to move to Florida.

[rtaylor537]

We have been using our 30ft Excella as our winter vacation spot and despite some bitterly cold weather everything seems to be going well.
We do not have running water as the park has shut off the system so we carry what we need to do the dishes and pour down the toilet. My wife (and I as well) does not like to trudge in sub freezing weather to the bath house, especially at 4 AM. Last night the temps got to around -10F and I know the holding tanks are frozen at the exit (dump valves) locations. I put in extra anti freeze (RV type) and with warmer weather later in the week, I hope they will discharge into the sewer system. We had to return home so hopefully this Friday everything will be working.
QUESTION.....What is the possibility of severly damaging the valves and if the weather has done so are they a nightmare to replace. ?
(We are heating with the furnace and electric space heaters.)
Thanks
RTaylor

[68 Suburban]

Originally posted by Rubyslipper
I hate all of you in warm places..not really.I took off one of the plastic mouldings around one of the small bottom windows and guess what...THOR,should be ashamed of how they are turning A/S into just another RV from Indiana.The absolute lack of insullation is down right pitiful.

In my Avion they used one of those spray foam insulations. Kind of like what they use in refrigerators. I have heard it is a a superior insulation. I wonder why Airstream never went that direction?

I hate all of you in warm places..not really.

I had to turn the A/C on in my truck yesterday when the temperatures got up to 80 degress, but it sure does get cold at night when it drops down to 58 degrees. Sorry, I couldnt resist It looks like you will get a nice warm up in a few days. Hang in there.

[Rubyslipper]

Today they say almost 50 and chance of rain.Now the roads over here will be sheet ice for sure.When we had our big freeze up a few days back and found the hose and valves frozen.We found that the hose connector end that comes out from the trailer is off round now due to the pressure of the ice that formed.Hubby thinks he can reshape with a pair of channel locks??I have explored the idea of getting one of those heated tank pads to apply to the bottom of the holding tanks.Guy at the RV parts store says they work well....but those fruit cakes will tell you dogs can fly too!Anyone ever heard for sure if those pads are an ok thing to keep tanks from freezing???

[jburnes]

Hi:

I'm seriously thinking about getting a 1977 Sovereign or something similar. I may use it for temporary shelter in Wyoming or Nevada while I build a house. This house building may well last right through winter even if I start in early spring. I noticed Ruby's problems with Winter weather and I thought it best to ask if anyone has a winter weather checklist?

I mean to live in it during the Winter and not just 'winterize' it.

Thanks,

Jim Burnes
jvburnes@yahoo.com

[John]

Jim,

I would suggest first building an A-frame that would shelter your trailer from the elements. Maybe even having some spaced horizontal boards to act as a wind buffer, but not too close to trap in the furnace exhaust.

I would also get a 100 Gallon LP tank and run the furnace. At least you're already in a low humidity area and this will help with condensation.

John

[j54mark]

"In my Avion they used one of those spray foam insulations...I wonder why Airstream never went that direction?"

I understand that over time the slight movement of the inner and outer skins from temperature changes as well as traveling will crumble such insulation to dust. True? I don't actually know.

Many trailer manufacturers have found that fiberglass batts settle in the walls over time. This is why Airstream uses a continuous batt from the roof to the floor, glued to both the inner and outer panels.

It does seem to me that one thing they COULD do at minimum extra cost (and weight) is stuff in a heavier batt.

Mark

[Rubyslipper]

Hi Jim,go to www.rvsafety.com/wintercamp.htm
there is some valuable info there on winter camping.Also a site www.workersonwheels.com.. provides some great insite on winter camping since the husband and wife often ruff it out in Alaska.We are new to this RV living and are learning all the time.Our first priority is keeping ourselves and our A/S from freezing.We have made the propane guy lots of $$$$.Should we ever loose power from ice storm we will have a problem since we do not have a generator.I think good old horse sence is a good thing to have on board.Prepare for the worst case scenerio.

[InsideOut]

I'm wondering how you faired the rest of the winter, now that spring is here? Please update us....hope all is well!

Shari

[Rubyslipper]

We made it ok.2 water freeze ups.The first was prior to the heat tape being in place and the second was when "someone" got anxious for spring and unplugged it. The windows have all the plastic off and fresh air is wonderful.Also have removed all the skirting frames we made and there was dry ground underneath so moisture did not build up as one suggested in the beginning.Missouri had over 14 inches of snow which was unusual they say.We did use a 100 lb botttle of propane a week at $38 a bottle.Having the heated mattress pad was a blessing and highly suggest it to anyone as nuts as we are.The Fantastic Vent that opened at 2 am in the middle of a blizzard has been repaired.Turned out that too much condensation had caused the control panel to short out.We find out this week about the duration of our contract.We have decided that if he stays the projected 4 years we will be selling our "cream puff" and building a small cabin.The A/S needs to be flying down a highway going someplace all the time and not setting put.As much as we love it,its best to set her free. Peace to all.Rubyslipper

[tallone]

howdy!

saw this thread refered off another thread on winter living.

im looking to remodel an older airstream, not restore, but moderize and build to my taste. quite possible i wil be wintering in some hardcore places.

i have built a few houses, a couple of products i like are radiant flooring, small boilers and blow-in insulation. i wonder if these would work well in a trailer situation? has anyone tried it?

this stuff is great, Warmboard-

http://warmboard.com/explained.html#whatis





and a small boiler to run the Warmboard and supply domestic hotwater

http://www.blueridgecompany.com/radiant/hydronic/325



then use BIBS (Blow In Blanket System) insulation in the floor and walls and one could be pretty toasty eh? the radiant floor setup could help with freezing issues?

[davidh]

skirt your trailer with 1" thick styrofoam it will take about four and a half 4 by 8 sheets of styrofoam. By doing this it will help to keep your floor much warmer and you will use less propane. At each seem of styro on your skiting use duct tape to hold it together messure 8' leangth's messure from bottom of trailer to the ground cut styro leangth wise to your messure ments and just wege the piece between trailr and ground dose not half to be super tight fit just so it is snug enough to help hold the piece in place. do this all the way around your trailer and you will notice the diffeance in comfort and also $$$$$$ savings in propane I have done all this and have delt with -20 temps with no problems.. I am full timing it in my Airstream so if you have any ? contact me and I will do my best to help you out. Also check out my post in member introduction ( winter living in a Airstream)

[Sierrapapa]

Winter camping question: Is it reasonable on a 3 or 4 day outing to fill the grey and black water tanks 1/3 full of anti-freeze? We would drain the freshwater system and carry water in jugs inside the trailer. We would use the jugs for cooking and to flush the toliet. We anticipate a few ski outings into Wyoming where temps can dip to -40F. Is this a workable idea? I have a heated shop I can pull the trailer into upon arrival home to melt and thaw.

[thecatsandi]

An Aluminum tent. Does work. Are you planning on using the furnace? Using RV antifreeze in all the lines and in the holding tanks will work. Drain the water tank put a little there and pump it into the lines. Drain hot water heater. bypass it and run the hot water. Put some down the sinks and shower. I have stayed in my AS down to about +10F. Still fully useful. The furnace ran constantly.

[Sierrapapa]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

An Aluminum tent. Does work. Are you planning on using the furnace? Using RV antifreeze in all the lines and in the holding tanks will work. Drain the water tank put a little there and pump it into the lines. Drain hot water heater. bypass it and run the hot water. Put some down the sinks and shower. I have stayed in my AS down to about +10F. Still fully useful. The furnace ran constantly.

Michelle, thanks for the label of the "aluminum tent" I like that. We are thinking of parking at places like the bottom of Teton Pass during the winter and some places in the Colorado Rockies, but only for 2, 3 or maximum of 4 days at a time and really using the AS as a ski base camp. Just doing my homework so I will be ready to roll come January of 08.

[RoadKingMoe]

Most RV antifreeze is pre-diluted and will be ineffective if diluted further (in the grey or black tanks). You don't need it in these tanks if you drain them and don't use them. I'd never put it in the freshwater tank, even though it isn't poisonous because we drink out of there and it tastes nasty. The couple of gallons of water you can't get out with the bottom drain won't hurt the tanks when it freezes. Use the intake side of the water pump to get antifreeze into the lines (including the toilet sprayer) and use a water heater bypass to prevent needing 6+ gallons there. Just drain the water heater with the plug. Pour enough of it into the sink and shower drains to overcome dilution in the traps.

Since you aren't going to be using the shower (use the campground's), sit a self-contained Porta-Potty in the shower. That's what we do when we use our semi-permanently winterized 34 now. Use dishpans in the sink rather than let water in the drains and just toss it out on the ground like a tent camper.

Honestly, I don't believe our furnace could keep up with -40ºF, and the damage to the Airstream from condensation and road salt would far outweigh the cost of motels as far as I'm concerned.

[Sierrapapa]

Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe

Most RV antifreeze is pre-diluted and will be ineffective if diluted further (in the grey or black tanks). You don't need it in these tanks if you drain them and don't use them. I'd never put it in the freshwater tank, even though it isn't poisonous because we drink out of there and it tastes nasty. The couple of gallons of water you can't get out with the bottom drain won't hurt the tanks when it freezes. Use the intake side of the water pump to get antifreeze into the lines (including the toilet sprayer) and use a water heater bypass to prevent needing 6+ gallons there. Just drain the water heater with the plug. Pour enough of it into the sink and shower drains to overcome dilution in the traps.

Since you aren't going to be using the shower (use the campground's), sit a self-contained Porta-Potty in the shower. That's what we do when we use our semi-permanently winterized 34 now. Use dishpans in the sink rather than let water in the drains and just toss it out on the ground like a tent camper.

Honestly, I don't believe our furnace could keep up with -40ºF, and the damage to the Airstream from condensation and road salt would far outweigh the cost of motels as far as I'm concerned.

Road King, I appreciate your insights. I was planning on not using the freshwater system, but was hoping to use the blackwater and greywater by the antifreeze method. I do see that the porta-potty idea would work, I had just hoped I could use the built in system except for my fresh water which would be in jugs. I agree motels would be cheaper and in fact I think motels would be cheaper than the whole AS deal for my overall use, however I am just tired of motels, and for the winter back country sking and some other activities the dammed motels are not in the right locations. Hence the AS.

[thecatsandi]

you can get non toxic antifreeze. We used it in the lavs in our jets over the winters. Kept the thing from freezing. Very expensive to fix and not very fun for the passengers if it was a long flight.
it may take several gallons into each tank to keep it from freezing. Come to think of it we used a little de-ice fluid from our trucks. already warm. it was propyline (Sp?) gylcol instead of ethyline (sp?) glycol.