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Old 12-05-2002, 04:21 PM   #15
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Honda/Elevation

Jim,

I'm currently looking into purchasing a Honda EU2000. If you have this infor available, what's the output loss @ 8000'?

John
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Old 12-05-2002, 06:03 PM   #16
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Any naturally aspirated engine (i.e. not supercharged) loses significant power at higher altitudes because the pressure drops and there's less air going into the engine. Carbureted engines lose more power than EFI engines, because they don't cut back on the fuel to account for the thinner air, and are running too rich. If the generator's engine makes less power, so does the generator.

I've seen 3.5% quoted as the loss of output for every thousand feet of altitude. If that's true, then at 8,000' you're looking at a 28% loss of power... or 1150 vs 1600 continuous watts from the EU2000, or 650 vs 900 W from the EU1000.
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Old 12-06-2002, 01:00 AM   #17
 
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I'm not kidding, but I have seen a Brit in Austria with a wood burning stove in his sob , and it looked cosy and warm.
Ok, Brits are known to be slightly excentric

Ron
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Old 12-06-2002, 05:56 AM   #18
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If you want to see a great application of a wood burning stove, not to mention a complete reno of a 1955 26' Silver Pod, take a look at this link.

http://www.marinestove.com/airstream.htm

O spoke with the owner a month or so ago when trying to track down a trailer to purchase. The work on the interior is contemporary and exceptional, but the price was way out of my range. When I drove to the neighborhood here in Brooklyn (NY), I saw her in vacant lot behind a steel barrier, and could smell (and see) the smoke rising from the top.

And he is NOT a Brit!

regards...

KL-Steve
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Old 12-06-2002, 08:51 AM   #19
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http://solarwindworks.com/Design/Design3/design3.htm

Here is a link that derates a generator up to 4% for every 1000 feet. I never did find the original link I was looking at. I am sure the numbers will vary between 3 and 4%.

jim
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Old 12-06-2002, 10:45 AM   #20
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Question Don't forget the Vodka..... Boris.

Boy what a great thread this one is. Fascinating. Brings questions to mind for a rookie such as I, even tho I will try to avoid wintering at the tundra as often as possible.

Is it the consensus of most that the cold gain (or is it heat loss) thru the belly is greater than thru the walls or top?
Why might this be? Is it a factor of amount of insulation? Would not the 3/4 plywood have at least as great of "R" factor as the either slice of the metal sandwich? (Not to mention the floor covering above the plywood).

I am assuming that actual air/wind infiltration is seldom a problem in our Airstreams. i.e. not many drafts, is this a reasonable assumption?
I also suppose that if the heat source is turned off, that the inside temp will drop in a matter of few minutes to almost the exterior ambient. Is this near accurate?

I wish there was more data/testimony available on the oil/wood heater propositions. Venting and chimney info for instance. Also location in different lengths of trailers and reports of how the heat spreads from one area to another within the trailer.i.e ; If you had no electric (hence no fan to push the warmed air) and had oil or wood stove in front LR area of trailer (31 footer), could you have comfortable heat in say the rear BRm? and if so, would the front LRm be too warm to be in?
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Old 12-06-2002, 10:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by barbwire
http://solarwindworks.com/Design/Design3/design3.htm

Here is a link that derates a generator up to 4% for every 1000 feet. I never did find the original link I was looking at. I am sure the numbers will vary between 3 and 4%.

jim
This reference says 4% for every 1000' above 500'. So they're getting 4% at 1500' vs the 3.5% at 1000'. And it wouldn't surprise me if some are closer to 5% per thousand if they're jetted a little rich at sea level.
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Old 12-06-2002, 11:06 AM   #22
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Re: Don't forget the Vodka..... Boris.

Quote:
Originally posted by hex
Is it the consensus of most that the cold gain (or is it heat loss) thru the belly is greater than thru the walls or top?
No. Most home energy references recommend much more insulation in the ceiling than the floor. This is because the air stratifies, there's more heat at the ceiling than the floor, and the amount of transfer (loss) is based on the difference between the indoor and outdoor temps (controlled by the R-rating).

And that outdoor temp isn't the absolute temperature either... it's the wind chill factor. Most homes have the foundation blocked so that the wind can't get below (hence the need for much less insulation)... that's what you're mainly doing when skirting a trailer... blocking the wind.
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Old 12-07-2002, 03:19 AM   #23
 
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Keylime,

Great link

Ron
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Old 12-08-2002, 09:45 AM   #24
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Out of respect for Rubyslipper's initial post, I didn't want to get too far off thread, so I posed a new topic on diesel stoves. However, the company that got my interest does sell diesel heaters, made specifically for enclosed spaces (marine use). It could be an interesting alternative, just thought I would throw this into the mix.

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/shop/...es-heaters.asp

regards...

Keylime
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:32 AM   #25
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Winter Living

Oh my gosh! This has turned into a huge project.We or should better say HE decided after talking to "Tim the Tool Guy" at Home Depot for 2 hours on Sat, to construct a frame from 2x2 treated wood. To this he is putting a foil applied to styofoam insullation board. One side is black the other is silver ( matches the A/S). Over this he will staple 6 ml black plastic. Each frame is independent due to surface of ground not being level.SO far it looks like it will work.Did I tell you that we had to make 2 trips to HD..120 miles. And the phone line under the trailer where we cant reach it broke as did the end of the water hose after I spent over an hour wrapping heat tape and insulating it.Seems the gasket is too hard and after He twisted it around several times the fitting thingy was no good. Grrrrrr! Anyway we have all these little wood frames laying around waitting for the insulation to be cut and nailed in place. But they will wait ..I have to go do laundry.
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Old 12-09-2002, 11:03 AM   #26
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Ask him how he's going keep humidity from building up un the trailer with that 6 mil plastic sealing it in. Tyvek would look pretty tacky, so you probably are going to need some vents, especially considering the foam has foil vapor barrier on it.
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Old 12-09-2002, 03:23 PM   #27
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Hey Moe I think this is just a temporary underskirting job, do you really think there would be much moisture damage from a couple months of humidity? Plus I doubt the frames will fit all too tight, maybe allowing a little moisture out on a sunny day?

How much "humidity" gets underneath driving along a wet highway?
If Ruby & her hub can just still the air exchange under the trailer I guess it will give her a little respit. Gonna sure look like Arkansas though!

Now if they were gonna keep it penned up for a long spell I would agree with your concerns Moe.
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Old 12-09-2002, 04:56 PM   #28
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I agree this needs to be vented. Going into winter the ground is always damp, fall rains and early snows that melt before the ground freezes. If you seal this tight all that moisture will evaporate and ice over everything you have sealed up. Warm days also will be more humid, the moisture will freeze in the shade. Putting plastic on the ground for a vapor barrier will help, but it needs a lot of vent.

I wonder if what you are doing isn't self defeating. It is going to freeze under the trailer, that is a given. During the day you are going to 'store' the cold under this, no sun and a little warmer air to keep the ground temp up, insulation holding the cold in. It seems like you will be keeping this area at a lower temp than the surrounding earth. It would help for really cold spells, but overall I think you are making a big insulated ice cube beneath the trailer.

Water from the road is a lot different. If it gets inside the belly pan it will run back out, not freeze and stay. Ice will build up as long as it is below freezing.

John
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