winter camping

[wheel interested]

Because the Safari has the tanks heated and enclosed does that mean the lines will not freeze? How does one make the necessary preparation for this? At home the lines are emptied of antifreeze and water added to freshwater tank? Do the lines freeze while driving? Does anyone drive with the furnace on BTW? After leaving campsite do you add some antifreeze to the tanks for travel, assuming sanitation stations are closed for winter and must be carried back. And forgive me if all this is way off, thanks for your patience and please tell me if and how to winter camp.

[John]

I'll try to answer some of your questions:

Because the Safari has the tanks heated and enclosed does that mean the lines will not freeze? Only if your running/using your furnace, other wise there's no heat to prevent freezing.

How does one make the necessary preparation for this? At night I normally disconnect and drain the city water rubber hose and use the fresh water holding tank(with furnace on).

Do the lines freeze while driving? If the temps are below freezing they will unless you're running the furnace while towing and yes, I've run the furnace while driving.

I'm not familiar with winterizing the trailer because I live in mine fulltime.

Suggestion: if you're thinking of camping during the winter, which is totally cool, I'd recommend getting a generator in case you lose your shore power or if your dry camping because I've found that the batteries won't last(5 degrees or colder) with the furnace running all night.

I'm sure others will share their insights!!!

[RoadKingMoe]

John's given you excellent advice.

My personal feeling is that once salt goes on the road, the Airstream stays off it until at least a couple of good, heavy rains in April.

You always want to start a trip with 3-5 gallons of water in the black tank to prevent "the pyramid" from developing below the toiltet. In Fall and later, some campgrounds shut-off and drain their water lines, so you also want to leave with a full fresh tank, and if the lines had previously been winterized, you want to flush the antifreeze out of them. May as well do it at home before leaving since you need the furnace heat for the tanks. I also go down the road with the furnace, water heater and refrigerator on gas. Just remember to shut them off before pulling up to the gas station island.

We just leave the trailer ready to go and plugged into electric at the house, and set the heat pump on 50 degrees. If it gets too cold for that, the gas furnace will come on automatically. I'm sure that costs a lot more than the antifreeze for winterizing, unwinterizing, and rewinterizing for each trip, but that's a lot of work. Not to mention removing everything that might freeze, reloading it for a weekend, and unloading it again. And don't forget to take along a hair dryer and extension cord in case the dump valves freeze up.

Some just leave their trailer winterized and take along bottled water and a porta-potti, using campground showers. That's another option.

Doesn't look like we'll be going out again this year, so I winterized ours today.

Hope this helps,

[docbluedevil]

If one doesn't winterize with antifreeze and just leaves the furnace set to 50F (accepting the cost of propane), will the heat cover all water lines? Will it take care of the water in the water heater as well, or do you have to keep the water heater on also?

I assume that the thermostat to the furnace reads off the ambient temperature near the unit as there is quite a temperature difference in our Safari 28W between the galley area (thermostat location) vs. the back bedroom (didn't measure, but noticeably colder, ~10 degrees, I would guess). Admittedly, the accordian doors were in place. I wonder though if there is an even larger temperature difference below the floor near the holding tanks or near external water line connections (fresh/grey/black dump valves), which might be in danger of exposure to freezing temperatures.

Living in western Colorado, I have the unique opportunity to do a fair amount of winter camping here and in the four corners area. Days in the 30-50s depending on the month with nights in the 10-30s. And no salt used here on the roads, just sand. So, I won't be putting the A/S away for the winter season. Likely, I'll just need to be an efficient winterizer with anti-freeze.

Abe

[John]

Abe,

Opening all of your closet doors, cabinets and draws helps to keep the complete interior warm. Setting a ceramic space heater towards the bathroom/bedroom also helps.

Turn off your exterior water service.(in outside water compartment)

FYI- you'll probably use 30#'s every 5 days where your located.

[RoadKingMoe]

50 degrees inside has kept our water heater okay in the Fall. I'd probably go 60 in the winter you describe. We don't ever run the water heater except right before use. Towing in cold is a different story though, and the wind can suck a lot of heat out of it.

As John said, keeping cabinet doors open helps. Our water heater is in the bathroom cabinet, but keep in mind there's insulation that prevents heat from getting to it as well as from escaping. There is a shut-off valve inside it that shuts off water to the exterior faucet.

When I do finally winterize, I blow out the lines with 60 psi, as AS recommends, then pump antifreeze through all the lines with an adapter on the pump input. Make sure to do the toilet and kitchen sink sprayer. And pour plenty in the traps, which will get to the grey dump valve, and flush plenty down the toilet for that one.

[docbluedevil]

1) How does the water heater work? Once I turn it on, is the flame on always, or intermittently to keep the water at the preset temp? Just wondering if I'm burning up a lot of LP having hot water available always...

2) If a lot, I like the idea of just turning it on when necessary. I know you're not supposed to turn the water heater on without water in it, but how do you know when there's enough water through it to turn it on safely?

3) The 04 Safari 28 W water heater is located under the L-sofa cushions. Does this mean I should have the cushions removed if the water heater isn't on? in very cold weather to prevent freezing Or that I can't sleep on the L-sofa with the water heater off in very cold weather?

Abe

[hohne]

DocBlueDevil,

We could cook and run our water heater about two weeks in our Colemen pop-up, with a 20 pound tank and a 6 gallon heater.

I think our water heaters in the 28W are the same capacity. There was a pilot on the Coleman, and it was pretty efficient, gas-wise. I could hear it fire up and light the main burner, and it almost never did that unless we were doing dishes.

I would assume the one in the 28 W would be as efficient...

-Rob

[hohne]

Abe,

In the Coleman, the hot water tank was downstream from both the pump and the pressurized connection, and it was lower than either fawcet.

So, the first time I would fill it in the spring, I would make sure I could hear water go into it when I pressurized the system with a hose.

As long as it did not leak, I knew there was water in it.

If I had any doubt, I would hook up water and then run a hot water fawcet to make sure there was water in the tank.

I think the water went into the bottom of the tank and came out of the top.

I bet the 28 W works the same.

-Rob

[RoadKingMoe]

A water heater doesn't take nearly as much gas to maintain temperature as it does to heat a cold tank up.

Keep in mind that if you're keeping the trailer warm for the tanks and pipes at home, you can bypass the water heater and drain it. No worry then.

You know the water heater is full when you aren't getting air out of the faucets set for hot water.

[thenewkid64]

Some of the water issue is wether you are getting a DSI or standing pilot light.

The standing pilot light will create enough heat to keep the water from freezing, in fact in the summer the standing pilot will keep the water hot enough that the main burner will only light if you use hot water.

The DSI will light off the main burner based on the temp of the water in the heater, like your home one, and cut off once the temp has been reached. This creates a wider temp swing, nad the main burner wil use more gas than a standing pilot to keep it from freezing IMO.

[CanoeStream]

Hello 'wheel interested' and welcome. Research is gooder... Pay no attention to Floridians asking, "What's the problem?"

I would fear for the uncontrollable consequences of temps diving 10-15 degrees colder than anything you would expect. What is controllable at 20 could spin out of control at 10. (we saw 5 degree temps and howling winds after a Halloween storm 10 years ago!) Dry camping or being prepared to winterize quickly are two choices.

In my experience, oceanside tent camping has produced annoying amounts of salt corrosion on aluminum fittings for tents, stoves, etc. None of this equipment was immersed in salt water -- it just came from the unavoidable salt spray. Towing in snow/salt conditions would produce the same. A modern car will last much longer than an Airstream frame if subjected to Northland conditions. Then how many times have we heard pitches for used cars driven only in the South? There is a reason behind Maurice, Harley riders & classic car owners not putting their babies on the road until spring rains wash off the salt.

Do searches on: winter, wintering, cold weather, condensation, rubyslipper (a forum user with cold weather experience), etc.

My computer links show good information in the following (Maurice sure has spent a lot of time thinking about this too!):

Airstream vs. ???: http://www.airforums.com/forum...7359#post57359

http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/ow...epingwarm.html

Cold Weather Camping: http://www.airforums.com/forum...&threadid=5822

[RoadKingMoe]

I rode my '97 Harley Sportster throughout the winter here for a coupla years, only on dry days though. It picked up a lot of salt dust.

Couldn't wash it until we had a day that would stay above freezing until the water all dried. Any water trapped in tight places can split metal when it freezes and expands.

The result was that the salt dust ate into the clear coat. The tank and fenders lost their shine and felt rough to the touch. Clearcoated aluminum pitted under any slight nick in the clear coat. Chrome rusted, and uncoated polished aluminum dulled quickly. It took a lot of work to restore it from that.

Salt is something I wouldn't dream of exposing my '00 Harley Road King or my Airstream trailer to!