taking a trip that will have some freezing temps, need pointers

[lewishw]

Hi yall,

We are planning on taking our 78 Sovereign on an early spring trip toward Taos. We live in Colorado, so we just winterize our baby and she sits until springtime. For our trip at the end of march, I have looked at the average temps, and they are not terribly cold, but if we catch it wrong, they could be cold enough to freeze things up.

I would love some input on little things we can do to safeguard the water system for our trip. I read that putting a trouble light in the rear end where all the plumbing is helps keep those pipes from freezing up, what about the plumbing in the rest of the trailer? We will have hookups so we can run electric heat or the heat strip all the time if need be. Do we need to remove the bins under the midship twin beds to help heat get to the water lines running to the kitchen?

Any other advice or tips would be greatly appreciated!!

Stream on!!

Hunter

[Alumaholic]

You won't encounter as many difficulties when you travel in the winter, as you do when an Airstream just sits in storage.
There are a few adjustments you must make.
If you anticipate day-time temperatures above freezing each day, it's really pretty simply.
1. Just turn off your H2O supply hose every evening before temps drop below freezing, drain it, roll it up and throw it in the back of your tow vehicle. In the morning, wait until temps get above freezing to re-install it. Make sure to fill a two gallon container with H2O for flushing the toilet at night, and have at least a gallon for brushing teeth and making coffee (or tea, or hot chocolate) in the morning.
2. If temps are going to stay below freezing during the day, you will have to insulate you H2O hose or purchase a heated one or do both.
3. If your belly pan is intact, and if your duct into the belly has not been removed, your pipes should not freeze; and if they do it will not be a frozen-solid, pipe-bursting freeze, just a slushy freeze.
4. If you use space heaters instead of your furnace, keep all the kitchen and bathroom cabinets open at night. It's even okay to leave the H2O heater turned on as long as it is full before you turn off the water supply. The heat helps keep surrounding pipes above freezing.
He have simply never had any problems. When you keep the coach warm enough to live in, the pipes are generally protected as well.
Just use common sense, and you will do fine.

[Protagonist]

For any plumbing that's inside the trailer, you don't have to do anything special. If it's warm enough inside for you, it's warm enough for the pipes.

If you're not talking hard freezes, and just a brief freeze right before dawn, you needn't worry too much. A water tank has significant thermal mass. Pure water freezes at 32°F— that's water temperature, not air temperature. When the air gets down to freezing, it takes a while for the water to also get that cold.

Dirty water, such as in your gray and black tanks, first freezes at colder temperatures, and should still be in good shape when clean water would start to freeze.

If you're really worried, or expect the temperature will get below freezing before nightfall and stay that way all night, take some gallon water jugs, and keep them inside the trailer for drinking, cooking, dishwashing, toilet flushing, and sponge baths, so you can leave the fresh tank empty and not have a water hose hooked up, either. By doing it that way, you can keep your entire plumbing system winterized except the gray and black tanks themselves.

You can heat water in a teakettle for sponge baths; when I lived in northern Maine as a kid, we did that all winter anyway!

[Zeppelinium]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

For any plumbing that's inside the trailer, you don't have to do anything special. If it's warm enough inside for you, it's warm enough for the pipes...

Be careful about this. Any pipe that's running close to the "C" channel, eg, next to the shell, and back behind/under the cabinets or beds, can get really cold, much colder than you are in the open area of the Airstream. If you're keeping the inside at house temperatures when you're parked, no problem. But when you're towing down the highway, or if you stop and boondock for a night and the inside temp is only in the 40s, then you might freeze up a pipe.

Zep

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

Be careful about this. Any pipe that's running close to the "C" channel, eg, next to the shell, and back behind/under the cabinets or beds, can get really cold, much colder than you are in the open area of the Airstream. If you're keeping the inside at house temperatures when you're parked, no problem. But when you're towing down the highway, or if you stop and boondock for a night and the inside temp is only in the 40s, then you might freeze up a pipe.

Zep

There is that. My advice was for at the campsite (where the OP indicated he has hookups), not in transit.

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

If you're really worried, or expect the temperature will get below freezing before nightfall and stay that way all night, take some gallon water jugs, and keep them inside the trailer for drinking, cooking, dishwashing, toilet flushing, and sponge baths, so you can leave the fresh tank empty and not have a water hose hooked up, either. By doing it that way, you can keep your entire plumbing system winterized except the gray and black tanks themselves.

You can heat water in a teakettle for sponge baths; when I lived in northern Maine as a kid, we did that all winter anyway!

If we are coming from a freezing climate, with stops along the way, where day-time temps are not above freezing; we leave our Airstream winterized. We carry water just as you would for tent camping.

[Dan and Liz]

Just finished a Christmas/New Years Fort Collins-to-El Paso-and-back trip. We left the fresh water system winterized, carried bottled water, put antifreeze in the holding tanks, and ran the propane furnace on the road (instead of the fridge) as well as during stops. (Learned that one from Luke -- he made a Minnesota trip in early December.) No worries, although an additional electric heater would have been welcome for nights in the 10 degreeish range.

[lewishw]

So to take it a step further, we are going to a single destination. But there is always the chance it will be really cold going over mountain passes and even where we live. Should I just bring my compressor to our destination and re winterize everything before we head home?

I also have not camped on city water before...I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. If I hook up to the water service, the only lines that are charged are the direct lines to the shower, toilet, kitchen sink, etc? Do I need to drain them each night to keep things from freezing or will my trouble light in the back compartment be adequate?

Hunter

[Alumaholic]

Tell us the year, and model of your Airstream, for more reliable advice. Disregard that, you already did. Rear bath or center bath?

[lewishw]

It is a 78, 31' rear bath sovereign. Sorry y'all, I feel like some of these questions are really stupid.

Hunter

[Alumaholic]

Not stupid at all. Keep the sliding door under the sink open at night.
Remove the rectangular access panel along the baseboard in front of the tub.
Then keep a heater back there in the bathroom.
Disconnect the water hose, per post #2
Keep the kitchen cabinet open and keep inside temperatures inside the coach above freezing.
Don't leave either dump valve open until you are ready to dump under non-freezing conditions.
You may want to by a short heat strip for the 6 inches of exposed copper pipe at you fresh water hook up.
Whereabouts toward Taos? That covers a lot of territory and some extremes in elevation.

[lewishw]

We are fixin to stay at ojo caliente. A friend that also lives camping but has a big bounder suggested it. It is north of Taos about 29 miles I think. Have you been up that way? He said the whole compound is very nice and relaxing. We have only owned our AS for about a year and we had a summer son peppered with weddings last year that we barely got to use it. So we promised ourselves we won't do the same thing this year

Hunter

[eubank]

Ojo Caliente is southwest of Taos, not north. While the RV park there was nothing to get really excited about (the last time we visited), the spa is really, really nice! Be sure to take a little trip up Hwy 285 (south of Ojo) to visit Abiquiu, Georgia O'Keefe country!

Lynn

[Alumaholic]

Ojo Caliente is a great destination! We hope to have an Airstream Rally there soon.
Plus it's just a tad warmer than Taos.
Still on your Airstream, the water comes in just below the bumper on the roadside and wraps around the very rear of the trailer right next to the skin to ultimately get to the kitchen on the curbside. That stretch of water line is very vulnerable to freezing as Zeppelinium has already mentioned. If yours has an access door as some do, you can add to the insulation by enclosing the line in a foam pipe wrap.
As to your question, water from the Rv park spigot and water from the holding tank both use the same water lines. They are separated by the check valve in the water pump.

[lewishw]

where is the access door? should I be able to see that water line by removing the bins under the starboard side twin bed? If it's possible, I would just as soon insulate it even if I don't need it. Going over La Veta pass could be really cold, and if I don't re-winterize before we head home, I am afraid we could freeze up on the pass.

I like the idea of dry camping with jugs of water, and just treating the gray and black water tanks, but I am pretty sure that the chief of staff (wifey) will not be thrilled if she cant take a normal hot shower. So if it means I have to re-winterize before we head home, that's worth the extra work in my eyes!

Hunter

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by lewishw

but I am pretty sure that the chief of staff (wifey) will not be thrilled if she cant take a normal hot shower.

You just have to demonstrate to her the joys of giving each other a sponge bath!

[lewishw]

Well Played Protag! Well Played!

[Wazbro]

Winterizing before you head back is a good idea.

When my parents head for Florida in the winter they use jugs of water and wait till they get past the freezing temps to dewinterize and on the way back they check the weather for where/when they will hit freezing temps and winterize the night before.

Since my parents are in their seventies, they have found it easier to use 1/2 gallon or 2 liter containers then handling 2 or even 1 gallon jugs for the toilet.

[Alumaholic]

Not only must you exercise all the precautions we've talked about during your stay at Ojo Caliente, you must winterize before the trip home.
The exterior access door I was referring to is shown in this photo of my '76.
The water line is tucked in the angle formed by the floor and the interior skin and runs from roadside to curbside across the back of the trailer.