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07-02-2008, 07:28 PM
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#1
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New Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Salisbury
, Connecticut
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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LPG Question from wannibe
I do not currently own an airstream, although I am actively looking. My brother owns a SOB MH. He told me there is an additive that is put into LPG in the north so that it doesn't freeze... As in, don't buy southern LPG as it will cause a freeze up in the winter in the north. Is he pulling my leg, or is he a victim of a running pratical joke....
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07-02-2008, 08:34 PM
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#2
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Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,617
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Propane freezes at -187 Celsius, that's -304 Fahrenheit.
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Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
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07-02-2008, 09:02 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1960 28' Ambassador
Vintage Kin Owner
1998 25' Safari
Avonton
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
Propane freezes at -187 Celsius, that's -304 Fahrenheit.
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I'm living in Canada, eh. Where do I get the antifreeze?
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Doug & Terry
VAC - TAC ON-1
60 Ambassador Int.
1950 Spartan
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07-02-2008, 09:06 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2006 19' Safari SE
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
Propane freezes at -187 Celsius, that's -304 Fahrenheit.
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I don't think we have to worry, eh, Richard??
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TB & Greg and Abbey Schnauzer
AirForums #21900
PastPrez, 4CU/WBCCI
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07-02-2008, 09:07 PM
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#5
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proliner
He told me there is an additive that is put into LPG in the north so that it doesn't freeze...
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hi 'liner and welcome to the forums...
u are allowed 9 more posts before buying a 'stream is required....
i've read that the formulation for liquified petroleum gas (the p doesn't stand for propane) does change from season to season...
in part to improve the freezing point and for other reasons...
here is a VERY basic reference on the issue...
lpgas-wiki-fied....
cheers
2air'
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all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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07-02-2008, 10:55 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proliner
I do not currently own an airstream, although I am actively looking. My brother owns a SOB MH. He told me there is an additive that is put into LPG in the north so that it doesn't freeze... As in, don't buy southern LPG as it will cause a freeze up in the winter in the north. Is he pulling my leg, or is he a victim of a running pratical joke....
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proliner,
The 'additive' to which you refer might be the ethyl mercaptan, which gives the LPG it's distinctive odor. Otherwise, it has no smell to warn you of a leak!
Pure LPG is often 'blended' with butane with the blend varying by geographic location and the seasons. Butane is cheaper than LPG, which is why it's used as a blending agent, but it freezes at 32* F, so you have to watch out when filling tanks in a warm (read South) location and then traveling to the cold, cold North! I get calls on this problem every winter when the Snowbirds go home early and lose the use of their LP appliances due to the large amount of butane used in FL.
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lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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07-03-2008, 09:42 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
proliner,
The 'additive' to which you refer might be the ethyl mercaptan, which gives the LPG it's distinctive odor. Otherwise, it has no smell to warn you of a leak!
Pure LPG is often 'blended' with butane with the blend varying by geographic location and the seasons. Butane is cheaper than LPG, which is why it's used as a blending agent, but it freezes at 32* F, so you have to watch out when filling tanks in a warm (read South) location and then traveling to the cold, cold North! I get calls on this problem every winter when the Snowbirds go home early and lose the use of their LP appliances due to the large amount of butane used in FL.
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So - do you have to make fuel/air mixture adjustments between the two fuels, or does the temperature handle that...provided you purchase it in the proper climate?
I hope my question is clear
Dave
__________________
AIR #15800
"Wimpy" 1/2 ton 2002 GMC Sierra 4X4 Z-71 Gasser
2000 Safari SS 25'
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07-03-2008, 10:27 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,343
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When I was a boy, we had snow 12 feet deep, walked to school- uphill both ways- and it frequently got down to -304. But those were the good old days.
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07-03-2008, 10:44 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
1990 25' Excella
Currently Looking...
Glenburn
, Maine
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
So - do you have to make fuel/air mixture adjustments between the two fuels, or does the temperature handle that...provided you purchase it in the proper climate?
I hope my question is clear
Dave
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As a resident of the "cold,cold North" it's best to burn off your tanks by mid-Fall during bird hunting / leaf-peeping season and refill with some fresh, Northern-blended fuel. I fell prey to this problem on the way to Louisiana last year during a cold snap in Tennessee. It disappeared when I got to Mississippi...
No adjustment is required - just avoid the issue by having your tanks filled in autumn. The biggest part of the problem is when tanks are low and the humidity level is high just at or near the freezing point of water. To make sure I have "fresh" fuel, I use a gas thief arrangement to provide gas for a lantern and my BBQ. Even with 30 pound tanks, it is easy enough to use up the "old" gas over the summer.
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wil
AIR 22828
TAC ME-3
Universal Address: 97XX5 QGG5Z
Longitude: -68.814136
Latitude: 44.894663
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07-06-2008, 09:33 PM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Red Deer
, Alberta
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
The 'additive' to which you refer might be the ethyl mercaptan, which gives the LPG it's distinctive odor. Otherwise, it has no smell to warn you of a leak!
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I don't think ethyl mercaptan is added to LPG. Ethyl mercaptan is a whole lot nastier smelling than the leaking LPG I've smelled. It is added to natural gas for leak detection purposes though.
I've used propane down to about -10 without trouble, but it can get cold enough that the pure propane with no butane at all can still gel up. It doesn't have to freeze, it just has to get cold enough that it will liquify without any compression at all.
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07-06-2008, 10:40 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,376
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Hi, according to the link 2air posted, [post #5] "A powerful odorant, Ethanethiol" is used for propane.
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Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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07-07-2008, 04:59 AM
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#12
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Moderator Emeritus
1972 31' Sovereign
High Springs
, Florida
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,311
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Quote:
Butane is cheaper than LPG, which is why it's used as a blending agent
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Ahhhh, that's why propane costs twice as much here in Florida. Twice the profit!
Local RV places are up to $4 for bulk fill. Propane distributors are closer to $5.
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ARS WA8ZYT
2003 GMC 2500HD 4X4 D/A Ext. Cab
Propane Powered Honda EU2000i
Lots of Hot Sauce!
Air # 283
WBCCI 1350
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07-07-2008, 10:03 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
So - do you have to make fuel/air mixture adjustments between the two fuels, or does the temperature handle that...provided you purchase it in the proper climate?
I hope my question is clear
Dave
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NOPE!
No adjustments are necessary to your air/fuel mix to accomodate alternative LP blends.
Glad I'm in the Pac NW now, where LP is $2.49-2.79 a gallon and I need a double tank fill.
What's with FL anyway? Diesel was consistently $.40-.50/ga,llon above premium. Here in OR, it's between a dime and a quarter more.
I STILL think it's a CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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