Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-02-2015, 05:04 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
2014 30' International
Englewood , Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Images: 2
Electric Bill

Hi folks,

I am curious if anyone knows the average kWh per month for a 30' airstream, 2 electric heaters, in a mild colorado winter averaging 30 degrees fahrenheit? I am curious if the city electric is messed up. This month my usage was at 1719 kWh.
Maybe using propane heat as the primary heat would be more cost efficient?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks!
__________________

__________________
Marklar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 05:05 PM   #2
2 Rivet Member
 
2014 30' International
Englewood , Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Images: 2
Yes, the airstream is professionally skirted
__________________

__________________
Marklar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 05:55 PM   #3
Moderator
 
Kevin245's Avatar

 
Vintage Kin Owner
... , ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,386
Images: 9
What are you paying per kWh and what is the cost of LPG in your area?
__________________

"You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do."

Eleanor Roosevelt

Kevin245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 06:08 PM   #4
2 Rivet Member
 
2014 30' International
Englewood , Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Images: 2
$.046 and cost of propane is about $80 for a $100 gallon tank
__________________
Marklar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 06:14 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,799
Images: 8
The LED lights are not the power hog. The electric water heater and using the refrigerator on AC power consumes considerable electricity. You need to tell us the size in watts of the electric heaters as well. At that low temperature, I would hazard they were on most of the time. Does the trailer have only a convection/microwave oven or a propane oven as well? Is the microwave or convection/microwave used a lot? (Those draw a lot of AC power when operating)

You have a 30,000 BTU furnace, that is the input energy. I doubt that these small furnaces are over 80% efficient. There should be a document in the tailer documentation set that gives specific fuel consumption per hour.

This information is necessary to see if the number of KW used is rational.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 900 watt solar system, Centramatics, Dill TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 06:34 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Gearheart's Avatar

 
1973 Argosy 24
Kitchener , Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 853
Images: 1
Electric heat is the most expensive energy going. My old house had electric heat and my power bill was $800/month and that was 25 years ago. My gas bill now is around 150/month
__________________
Gearheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 07:11 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
Propane has about 91,000 btu per gal. Efficiency of burning it in the furnace and water heater would probably never exceed 70%. So a gal of propane would give you a usable heat of .7 x 91,000 = 63,700 Btu.

To put things on an equal basis, usually we calculate the cost per therm of usable energy. A therm is 100,000 btu.

So to produce 100,000 btu of propane heat you would need 100000/63700 = 1.57 gal of propane.

Since electric resistance heat is 100% efficient in most cases and each kWh of electricity produces 3410 btu, to produce 100,000 btu of heat electrically you would need 100,000/3410 = 29.3 kw of power.

Using your numbers for fuel cost then, (and they sound very low to me) your propane is 80 cents a gal and your electric rate is 0.46 cents a kWh.

So, the cost of propane per therm would be 1.57 gal x 80 cents a gal = $ 1.25 a therm.

The cost of electricity per therm would be 29.3 x .046 = $1.34 a therm

If your cost numbers are correct (and again, they sound low to me) the two fuels cost about the same per usable amount of heat delivered.
__________________
idroba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 07:14 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
PS: Anyone can put their own costs per gal of propane and kWh of electricity in the above calculations and compare their own data.
__________________
idroba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 11:14 PM   #9
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,584
Images: 1
Use the furnace and a dehumidifier to maintain the underlying temp & humidity. Use a DYSON Hot Cool in the area where you sit or sleep at the time appropriate to fine tune temps.

Do not tax TT electrical system with heaters.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 11:57 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Foiled Again's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,883
International

"International is the key word here. Translate "Bare Aluminum Interior". The insulating benefit of the Flying Cloud's entry level "mouse fur" or the vinyl wall covering on the Classics seems to be minimal, BUT every bit helps - The heavy drapes on the Classic help a lot more too!

One other thing to do. Turn of the lights, light a candle and walk around the inside of your Airstream - watch the flickering. You WANT to have some air exchange to control the humidity and keep you in oxygen, but you may have some really bad cold spots and heat leaks. Hold your candle in front of the light switch for your scare light and your porch light. I've had 3 Airstreams and they all have little jets of icy cold air blowing in. Pretty easy to seal up with a super thin piece of adhesive backed cork cut to the size of the switch plate. Ever open a bathroom cabinet and think you're going to freeze your ass - well that's deliberate - the plumbing is being exposed to the heated interior while sadly also exposing the bath to a lot of cold air. I keep my shower vent open ALMOST all of the time. Tonight we had a cold front come in with 40 mph winds - I closed that sucker up. Skylights and Fantastic fans - another Brrrrr! point, get Prodex or any other kind of cover for them. Check around your DOOR - you may have a windstorm working away there. Correctly adjusting the door and/or the latch can get rid of 80% of the problem Stove vent? needs to be open to cook but may be blowing cold air in 100% of the time. A stretchy pot cover when you're not using the stove top could do wonders.

I've got the roll up shades on my windows - and just broke down and bought a roll of Prodex to make winter insulated shades for SOME of them (gotta get some sun inside even during the winter - ever hear of SAD? Seasonal Affective Disorder - or winter blues - caused by lack of full spectrum light (you can buy full spectrum fluorescent lights to help, but get some natural light and thermal gain if you can. I'm using six tiny clear plastic Command hooks on each window that I'm covering. I'll just cut the prodex slightly larger than the window, use a circle punch to cut the holes for the Command hooks at the top of the window, half way down the curve, and at the bottom corners. I'll also make a slit for the window operators to fit through, but will cover the slots where the operators move up and down. I'm planning to cover all the windows on the north side of the Airstream (2) and cover all the wrap arounds on both ends... mostly those will be held in place by the curtains with a bit of assist from a command hook (or just the adhesive strip, if needed. The skylight in the living room and the back fan will also be covered by a prodex cover, the bedroom fan will be left uncovered so that dawn's early light will awaken me.

I really bought the prodex to use on the hatch - which Is a BIG cold door on the Eddie Bauer! But like all projects, it seems to be taking on a life of it's own. Don't know If I'll have room to store all of this stuff through the summer or whether I'll have to buy new every year. But darn I hate winter.

Going to Key West might cost more, but it doth have it's appeal!

Paula
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
Foiled Again is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 07:07 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
A W Warn's Avatar
 
2000 25' Safari
1999 34' Excella
Davidson County, NC , Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,568
I'm paying $.014/kwh, using an average of ~450 khw per month.
I'm still working on my first 40 lb of propane this season. I filled up @ ~$1.00 per pound last summer.
I'm in central Florida Nov thru April, in my 34' Excella.

I use a "Little Big Heat" set on low with the furnace set on 69F. Most of the heat comes from electric, but the furnace will cycle when needed.

Hot water is on electric 24/7 to maintain water temperature, but we flip the gas switch when we get in the shower so we both have adequate hot water.

The fridge stays on electric unless we are towing.

add edit:
In winter our lows at night are generally in the mid to upper 40's with average highs around 70F. Those averages will be about 10-15 higher in April.
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package (yes, I'm towing the 34')
A W Warn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 07:13 AM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
Lets travel's Avatar
 
2014 30' Classic
Fayetteville , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 46
Thumbs up Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by idroba View Post
Propane has about 91,000 btu per gal. Efficiency of burning it in the furnace and water heater would probably never exceed 70%. So a gal of propane would give you a usable heat of .7 x 91,000 = 63,700 Btu.

To put things on an equal basis, usually we calculate the cost per therm of usable energy. A therm is 100,000 btu.

So to produce 100,000 btu of propane heat you would need 100000/63700 = 1.57 gal of propane.

Since electric resistance heat is 100% efficient in most cases and each kWh of electricity produces 3410 btu, to produce 100,000 btu of heat electrically you would need 100,000/3410 = 29.3 kw of power.

Using your numbers for fuel cost then, (and they sound very low to me) your propane is 80 cents a gal and your electric rate is 0.46 cents a kWh.

So, the cost of propane per therm would be 1.57 gal x 80 cents a gal = $ 1.25 a therm.

The cost of electricity per therm would be 29.3 x .046 = $1.34 a therm

If your cost numbers are correct (and again, they sound low to me) the two fuels cost about the same per usable amount of heat delivered.
You must of really thought this out!
__________________
Lets travel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 07:44 AM   #13
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,584
Images: 1
The problem is in heat distribution if one wants to compare costs. An electric heater will need the AC fan to warm the trailer evenly. The cost is therefore higher.

As only the furnace can keep the tanks above freezing, and is a more robust system, it is to be favored. Handling humidity with an electric device does not add substantially once humidity is lowered.

Interior storm windows and exterior skirting are the additions to study per extended cold weather use.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2015, 09:07 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 811
It doesn't surprise me that you have a big electric bill. Airstreams are notoriously poorly insulated.
We wintered in Golden, Colorado in a motorhome and had huge energy bills.
Your propane furnace wastes a lot of energy. Just stand outside near the vent when it is running. Most of the heat goes away.
A catalytic heater is 100 efficient. We installed one because we boondock a lot. We don't run it at night, but it is great for taking the chill off quickly on a cold morning.
Options for saving energy: turn heaters way down or off when the sun is shining. The sun will heat your poorly insulated trailer up even on a cold day. Run one heater at night in the sleeping area. Turn the temp down. At night, we keep our trailer about 60. We are running electric only with the furnace set low as a backup. Yes, it is cold but we are warm in sleeping bags.
I don't know where you are buying propane, but the last time I filled my tanks, it was over $3.00 per gallon.
If I were full timing it, I would consider parking the trailer in the winter (in cold states) and renting an apartment. Between campground rent in a nice campground and sky high utilities, you may be better off.
__________________

__________________
handn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What can I expect my electric bill to be? Bea Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 23 12-18-2009 04:30 PM
NewAirstream from Bill's RVer on the Block tsunami Member Introductions 7 07-24-2006 07:22 PM
Oh No, Mr. Bill. I Have a Fake Sovereign Alumaholic 1974 - 1979 Sovereign 14 07-21-2006 05:48 PM
Bill Thomas rally Dwight Other Rallies & Events 4 09-04-2003 09:41 PM
A two dollar bill?? grin.. FrankR Off Topic Forum 4 04-21-2003 07:09 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.