Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-28-2019, 10:05 AM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
Kailua Kona , Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5
Can aircraft insulation be used on Airstreams?

During my flight to Hawaii yesterday, it occurred to me as I sat next to the window, that I was only a few inches away from a temperature of -50 degrees, and a very loud jet engine, and yet, thanks to some pretty good insulation, I was fairly comfortable in my seat on the aircraft. Why isn’t insulation like this used on Airstreams instead of the ecobatt fiberglass insulation? Has anyone on this forum looked into it?
Birchbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2019, 10:49 AM   #2
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar
 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 2
yes.. but the $$$ is out of reach.. some folks have sprayed foam on inside of exterior skin.. jury still out on that.. (imagine trying to repair, vibration, flex, etc..) But, doesn't mean it can't be done, right?
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2019, 10:59 AM   #3
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
Corona , California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
Can aircraft insulation be used on Airstreams?

On Boeing, and probably others, they use “insulation blankets” custom made to fit an area. Usually a fire-retardant fabric over very fluffy fiberglass insulation. Not cheap to make as each is custom made.

They are also a bunch thicker than what’s in Airstream walls.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
rmkrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2019, 11:50 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville , whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,409
Images: 20
I encourage you to search this forum for insulation, and you will find a wealth of opinions and advice and numerous threads where folks have put in a wide variety of different types of insulation - fiberglass batts, rock wool, reflectix, spray foam styrofoam, foam boards, etc.

Now, spoiler alert, the bottom line is that 1) there is only so much you can do in the 1.5 inches of space, and more to the point 2) even if you have the perfect insulator (aerogel?) installed, there is still the substantial thermal bridging from the outer skin through the ribs to the inner skin.
skyguyscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2019, 12:08 PM   #5
:SPACE A" S/O 11 Air19745
 
guskmg's Avatar
 
2006 34' Classic S/O
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,766
Contact Yeti and see how tier coolers are insulated. They may send you a sample. I have never seen such an efficient and effective insulated cooler as the Yeti and they are pretty thin walled.
guskmg
guskmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2019, 12:43 PM   #6
3 Rivet Member
 
Eric 26 Argo's Avatar
 
Airstream - Other
Knoxville , TN
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 226
You could use Aircraft insulation but you Airstream will never hold up at that altitude or speed.

Really the commercial aircraft have thicker bulkheads almost 4 time that of and Airstream so they can add quite a bit of insulation to reduce noise.
Eric 26 Argo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2019, 01:38 PM   #7
1 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
BUCKEYE , AZ
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birchbay View Post
During my flight to Hawaii yesterday, it occurred to me as I sat next to the window, that I was only a few inches away from a temperature of -50 degrees, and a very loud jet engine, and yet, thanks to some pretty good insulation, I was fairly comfortable in my seat on the aircraft. Why isn’t insulation like this used on Airstreams instead of the ecobatt fiberglass insulation? Has anyone on this forum looked into it?
As a retired aircraft inspector, the insulation blankets use in aircraft are only 3/16 inch thick. They have to keep the weight down. Aircraft have a very good heating system plus all the bodies inside keep it warm. Park it on the ramp shut off the heat in winter, you can hang beef in it.
mreddyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2019, 03:01 PM   #8
Rivets?
 
nvestysly's Avatar

 
1992 29' Excella
2010 22' Interstate
Van By The River , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,363
The OP's question is interesting and there are probably improved insulating techniques available but material cost and installation cost may be prohibitive. More research is in order from the OP and others to know which materials and methods might work.

A previous post brought up a very good point - thermal bridging. Aluminum is one of the highest thermal conductors of commonly available commercial materials. So we have an outside skin with high thermal conductivity, ribs placed every one to two feet made of the same high conduction material a bonded to an interior with the same high thermal conductivity. That's an insulating challenge at best. A kind of "never ending battle."

So Airstream (the company) and us (the owners and restorers) try to combat the high thermal conductivity of all that aluminum with something that has relatively low thermal conductivity, a product commonly known by one of its trade names - Reflectix.

However, reflective bubble insulation requires very specific installation parameters to make it effective. The method I've seen used - simply placing the sheets of bubbles in the wall - is not the proper installation from what I can tell. The reflective bubble insulation must be installed with uniform air gaps on each side of the material. Just laying it in the wall does very little to add an insulating layer.

In some ways, adding fiberglass batting may be better than reflective bubbles. Properly installed fiberglass (or other foam) would at least minimize air movement between in the outer and inner wall.

In the end, Airstreams are three-season trailers: spring and autumn are okay in most latitudes. Summer in the north or Winter in the south round out the third season. I guess if you're mobile enough you can travel and catch all four seasons.
__________________
Lucius and Danielle
1992 29' Excella Classic / 2010 Interstate
2005 Chevrolet Suburban K2500 8.1L
2018 GMC Sierra K1500 SLT, 6.2L, Max Trailering
Got a cooped-up feeling, gotta get out of town, got those Airstream campin' blues...
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2019, 03:19 PM   #9
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
Hi

The reflective part of reflective bubble insulation is .... errrr .... ummm.... aluminum. Your AS already has two big thick layers of aluminum in it's walls.

Why do you need aluminum in bubble insulation? It's transparent to IR radiation. One way you loose heat from a surface is radiation. They can put a thin film of aluminum on the stuff and take care of that problem. That's fine if you are insulating a window. It's excess baggage if you are insulating the wall in an AS trailer.

Indeed, as mentioned above, aircraft stay comfortable because of their HVAC systems not because of their insulation. Sit out on a hot runway for a few hours and the limits of that system will become painfully apparent.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2019, 05:52 PM   #10
Rivets?
 
nvestysly's Avatar

 
1992 29' Excella
2010 22' Interstate
Van By The River , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,363
Found some very interesting information. This guy may not have covered all the aspects of insulation but he certainly hits many of the significant points. As others have said on this thread and others... reflective bubble insulation is not what many think it is.

__________________
Lucius and Danielle
1992 29' Excella Classic / 2010 Interstate
2005 Chevrolet Suburban K2500 8.1L
2018 GMC Sierra K1500 SLT, 6.2L, Max Trailering
Got a cooped-up feeling, gotta get out of town, got those Airstream campin' blues...
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2019, 11:52 PM   #11
1 Rivet Member
 
Kailua Kona , Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvestysly View Post
The OP's question is interesting and there are probably improved insulating techniques available but material cost and installation cost may be prohibitive. More research is in order from the OP and others to know which materials and methods might work.

I did a little more research on aircraft insulation and learned about a new material that is sometimes used—melamine foam. Melamine foam is what they make those “Mr. Clean Magic Erasers” out of.
Birchbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 04:51 AM   #12
Rivets?
 
nvestysly's Avatar

 
1992 29' Excella
2010 22' Interstate
Van By The River , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,363
I came across Solimide as a brand name for a flexible foam sheet used in aircraft.
__________________
Lucius and Danielle
1992 29' Excella Classic / 2010 Interstate
2005 Chevrolet Suburban K2500 8.1L
2018 GMC Sierra K1500 SLT, 6.2L, Max Trailering
Got a cooped-up feeling, gotta get out of town, got those Airstream campin' blues...
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 05:54 PM   #13
4 Rivet Member
 
twbucksr's Avatar
 
2015 22' FB Sport
2018 27' Flying Cloud
2021 30RB Classic
Currently Looking...
Fredericksburg , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 306
Yeti’s are great. I have several. But the method they use is too heavy for an Airstream. I suggest looking for a light weight, flexible, space age material to use as a furring strip and create the thermal “break” needed to achieve your goal. Which should be to eliminate the interior skin directly contacting the structural ribs which are directly in contact with your exterior skin.
twbucksr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 10:48 PM   #14
1 Rivet Member
 
Kailua Kona , Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5
Airstream now advertises that during manufacturing they create a thermal break between the ribs and the skin. Does anyone here know what year Airstream began putting in the thermal breaks?
Birchbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 02:48 PM   #15
:SPACE A" S/O 11 Air19745
 
guskmg's Avatar
 
2006 34' Classic S/O
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,766
Ask Airstream. The thermal break was when they started to use seal tape between the ribs and under the skin and AdSeal on the roof.
guskmg
guskmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 08:24 AM   #16
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birchbay View Post
Airstream now advertises that during manufacturing they create a thermal break between the ribs and the skin. Does anyone here know what year Airstream began putting in the thermal breaks?
Hi

Head up to JC and take the factory tour. If they are putting anything more than tape on, it's certainly not very obvious watching them do it.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 07:10 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
1969 18' Caravel
Greenville , whereEverIroam
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,409
Images: 20
From what I could tell, the "thermal break" appears to be that black double-sided foam tape that's maybe about 1/8" thick or so. I don't doubt it's an improvement and surely better than nothing, though how much, I can't say. Do they also put it on the inside of the ribs?
skyguyscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 11:22 PM   #18
:SPACE A" S/O 11 Air19745
 
guskmg's Avatar
 
2006 34' Classic S/O
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,766
The tape separates the two metals, skin on ribs, thus providing a thermal break so that conductive heat transfer of metal to metal is eliminated. SilverStreak and Streamline used that for years. I had both and they were quite comfortable. They also used fiberglass bats. Avion on the other had used spray foam, but we know that has draw backs.
guskmg
guskmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 04:32 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Foiled Again's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwf View Post
yes.. but the $$$ is out of reach.. some folks have sprayed foam on inside of exterior skin.. jury still out on that.. (imagine trying to repair, vibration, flex, etc..) But, doesn't mean it can't be done, right?
AVION DID IT for years without remarkable troubles.... of course the big windows are heat and cold sinks.
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
Foiled Again is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2020, 02:56 PM   #20
2 Rivet Member
 
2018 33' Classic
Butler , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 55
Images: 2
Modern aircraft insulation for an Airstream would be cost prohibitive. I have a new jet half torn apart in our hangar at work for some modifications and the way the insulation looks is light foam core wrapped in a thin nomex flame-resistant jacket in several individually fit pieces. It works well enough.

A cheaper solution would be to obtain some carbon foam sheets, cut to fit between the stringers and ribs of the airstream and cover with Mylar. This is how I would/will do it when it comes time to upgrade my Airstream. Not as easy as stuffing eco-friendly insulation, but much better in r-factor and it won’t grow mold.
RussRamz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insulation- Prodex or Foam Insulation Board? Danny Z General Interior Topics 7 08-26-2015 08:21 PM
Does old fiberglass insulation equal new fiberglass insulation? Petethefeet General Interior Topics 7 11-14-2010 12:16 PM
Airstreams And Aircraft cooperhawk Forum Rallies & Meet Ups 3 01-18-2006 10:10 AM
Airstream and Aircraft Detailing in Texas jimmy Commercial Listings 0 08-03-2003 02:24 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.