Types of Flooring

[driftwood1]

Also, can you glue it down over existing vinyl sheet?

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

What would you recommend for a floating floor that has a tile/stone look? I do not want a glue down.

I personally do not know of a glueless stone/ tile look. I am in the commercial flooring business, where glueless is not so much a viable option. Here is a link to a supplier of mine that handles some laminate flooring('laminate' flooring is glueless): bpiteam

If you want a commercial grade flooring, do a search for 'laminate' within the following manufacturers: Armstrong, Mannington, Tarkett, Amtico, Formica, American Biltrite, Pergo. Just go to the 'commercial product lines on their websites.

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

good question.

Also, how do you peeps redoing flooring deal with the walls and cabinets? Lay around them or what?

I don't see the point in brushing on a waterproof membrane from inside. Why?... to protect the subfloor from the outside elements? Any moisture barrier applied from inside will not protect the underside that is exposed. If waterproofing is not needed/ required in above-grade residential and commercial construction with wood substrates, then why would it be needed in an Airstream? The aluminum underbelly is enough to protect the substrate from splash-up when traveling in wet conditions. It would be pointless in my humble opinion.

Yes, you would have to cut the material around walls and other penetrations. Be sure to leave the required gap that the installation instructions say to leave for each specific material. Laminates (glueless floors) especially need room to expand and contract (usually 1/4 inch). Shoe-mold or quarter-round molding is then nailed to the wall/ cabinet to cover the gap.

[bvcg1]

Please see my reply to rodsterinfl.
I got out of order and answered his before I got to yours.

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by driftwood1

Also, can you glue it down over existing vinyl sheet?

That would depend on the condition of the existing sheet vinyl.
If it is heavily embossed or pealing and torn in places, then you would have to do a 'skim-coat' over it with a lightweight cementitious compound such as Ardex Featherfinish ARDEX Americas | ARDEX FEATHER FINISH®

The skim-coating with a flat trowel will fill any voids/ embossment/ irregularities and leave you with a flat surface to adhere the new flooring to. The material is a bit tricky to work with, so I would go to YouTube and search for videos on how to mix and apply. When I did my floor I covered the rough 3/4 inch subfloor with a 1/4 inch luan to give me the best possible substrate. I still had to use the Ardex at all luan joints ,and to fill in the indentions left by the fasteners (pneumatic brad/ staple gun).
You will have to apply it in 2 or 3 layers to get the smoothest possible finish. The first coat will be a little rough, so you scrape it with the DRY trowel to knock of the edges left during the first application...kind of like scraping a window to clean glass. Then you apply a lighter coat (or two) of the Featherfinish to fill voids left after the previous application.

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by bvcg1

I have been in the commercial flooring business for almost 30 years. The trend now is LVT...Luxury Vinyl Tile. It is approximately 1/8 inch thick and very durable if you buy commercial grade. It comes in wood plank, stone, concrete, etc looks. It really keeps the weight down and is relatively easy to install. Here is a picture of a simulated exotic wood floor I put in my 71 Safari restoration.

Does LVT expand and contract over time when the AS is in storage and its 0 degrees F in the winter and 100 degrees F in the summer? That is what is causing my OEM vinyl to buckle in a few places.

I would have to remove all the old vinyl from around the cabinets then lay down a new floor. The old vinyl would stay under the cabinets and furniture.

Kelvin

[switz]

We replaced the loosening factory linoleum with Marmoleum in the 2014 Classic. The material is about a ⅛" thick with the color and pattern all the way through so a scratch or ding does not show. It is biologically friendly in that none could even eat the stuff with no side effects.

http://www.forbo.com/flooring/en-gl/...m/bl3o9c#anker

The 2015 23D came with dents and after 2,000 miles the dinette leg had worn through the really thin and extremely cheap factory linoleum. Since all the dinette related cabinetry is out along with the bed frame because of extensive modifications, we are installing the Marmoleum but in a different color.

We install a brass wear plate under the dinette table leg after installing the new flooring.

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Does LVT expand and contract over time when the AS is in storage and its 0 degrees F in the winter and 100 degrees F in the summer? That is what is causing my OEM vinyl to buckle in a few places.

I would have to remove all the old vinyl from around the cabinets then lay down a new floor. The old vinyl would stay under the cabinets and furniture.

Kelvin

VERY GOOD QUESTION! Yes, any vinyl product will expand and contract due to temperature extremes. I'll bet you a million bucks that your failure was due to the adhesive used to apply your OEM vinyl. That's why it is very important to use the manufacturer's recommended adhesive. It stays tacky longer. Inadequate adhesives will crystallize after some time and release from the back of the vinyl. A premium adhesive will stay in its pliable state for years, so when the vinyl is expanding and contracting it is moving with it because it stays 'rubbery'. When inadequate adhesives crystallize they will release the vinyl when it moves.

[KJRitchie]

Is Marmoleum a sheet flooring that is glued down. Does it expand and contract from extreme temperature swings? I check that website and the Striato 5213 waving wheat appears to be a close match to our existing vinyl.

Kelvin

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by switz

We replaced the loosening factory linoleum with Marmoleum in the 2014 Classic. The material is about a ⅛" thick with the color and pattern all the way through so a scratch or ding does not show. It is biologically friendly in that none could even eat the stuff with no side effects.

Marmoleum floors

The 2015 23D came with dents and after 2,000 miles the dinette leg had worn through the really thin and extremely cheap factory linoleum. Since all the dinette related cabinetry is out along with the bed frame because of extensive modifications, we are installing the Marmoleum but in a different color.

We install a brass wear plate under the dinette table leg after installing the new flooring.

I heartily endorse the Marmoleum product! It is an actual linoleum and is very environmentally friendly. Good selection!!

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by bvcg1

VERY GOOD QUESTION! Yes, any vinyl product will expand and contract due to temperature extremes. I'll bet you a million bucks that your failure was due to the adhesive used to apply your OEM vinyl. That's why it is very important to use the manufacturer's recommended adhesive. It stays tacky longer. Inadequate adhesives will crystallize after some time and release from the back of the vinyl. A premium adhesive will stay in its pliable state for years, so when the vinyl is expanding and contracting it is moving with it because it stays 'rubbery'. When inadequate adhesives crystallize they will release the vinyl when it moves.

It appears AS laid the floor vinyl and tacked/glued down the edges only before installing the cabinetry and furniture on top of it. It wasn't until I moved to Missouri from DFW that I noticed the buckling as we had some cold temperatures my first winter here (5f). I had to remove the vinyl from under the rear dinette due to a water leak and it wasn't glued down.

Will the adhesive withstand those temperature swings. All these flooring examples seem to be designed only for residential/commercial in conditioned environments and not designed for RV use. What may work in a temperate climate may not work further north. I want a new floor that will last and not buckle in a couple of years.

Kelvin

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

It appears AS laid the floor vinyl and tacked/glued down the edges only before installing the cabinetry and furniture on top of it. It wasn't until I moved to Missouri from DFW that I noticed the buckling as we had some cold temperatures my first winter here (5f). I had to remove the vinyl from under the rear dinette due to a water leak and it wasn't glued down.

Will the adhesive withstand those temperature swings. All these flooring examples seem to be designed only for residential/commercial in conditioned environments and not designed for RV use. What may work in a temperate climate may not work further north. I want a new floor that will last and not buckle in a couple of years.

Kelvin

I appreciate your concern. What I would do is find a product you want to use, look at the required adhesive, and call the manufacturer and ask that question of their technical services people. I can assist you with that if you like. Just inbox me and tell me what you're considering. I can also put you in touch with independent adhesive manufacturer's reps that will be able to advise you as well.

[switz]

Marmoleum is sheet material and can only be installed by "trained and authorized" installers, what ever that means in reality. We left a small gap between the edge of the material and the cabinets which was covered by hickory quarter round. The Marmoleum specified adhesive was spread all over the Classic's prepared trailer floor, not just the edges.

Once the Classic got to Arizona in January 2014, it has not seen temperatures below 30 degrees F, but has been under cover and gently baked at 115+ F in the summer. We will not be intentionally taking the Classic into cold weather since we are based in Apache Junction, AZ.

No expansion issues to date.

The 23D poses a small issue in the installation in that there is the little amount of bare aluminum wall one can see directly by the Marmoleum, so a different material trim piece will have to be fabricated and the Serenity white cabinets will need a quarter round. We are leaning towards a walnut quarter round since the flooring has darker colors in it.

After the flooring is installed, then the modified dinette cabinets and bed frame will be installed on top of the Marmoleum.

[batman]

Another Marloleum endorsement here. Environmentally friendly and gives us a nice retro look for our 64. We have been in 111 to 15 degrees and no issues with expanding or shrinking. It is recommended to seal and wax it and it only comes in 78 1/2" widths. We have 3 dogs and go to the beach and mountains most trips and it still looks as beautiful today as the day it was "professionally" installed (3 years ago).


-Dennis

[KJRitchie]

We took our Airstream over to a local RV shop that specializes in RV repairs, fullbody paint and renovations to get an estimate on a queen to twin bed conversion and a replacement vinyl floor.

What they are recommending ifor the floor is LVT plank click together product which they glue down with an RV floor adhesive that is good from -20F to 140F. The floor brandi s IVCUS and the line is Moduleo Horizon Wood. The color we like is Ontario Oak 24336.

The RV shop sources from a local carpet shop so we went there to pick up some samples to take back to the Airstream. We took the whole sample package and I immediately noticed the weight. The vinyl is 4.5mm thick which is about 5/32". The sample square for our desired color was 7 3/4" x 11 3/4" and weights 15.2 oz. The RV shop wants to pull out the rear dinette/side couch and install the floor and put the furniture back down on it. The reason is because the Ultra Leather that covers the dinette siding extends all the way to the floor on my Classic. They will cut around walls and kitchen cabinets. I think they will install the twin bed framing before the floor but I'll have to check with them.

I made a rough calculation to estimate the weight of the new floor. I measured the kitchen/living area and the the hallway extending forward into the bedroom area and calculated 85 sq feet. The extra kitchen footage under the cabinets that won't be floored is used for the bathroom. I came up with a figure of about 135 lbs.

Kelvin

[bvcg1]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

We took our Airstream over to a local RV shop that specializes in RV repairs, fullbody paint and renovations to get an estimate on a queen to twin bed conversion and a replacement vinyl floor.

What they are recommending ifor the floor is LVT plank click together product which they glue down with an RV floor adhesive that is good from -20F to 140F. The floor brandi s IVCUS and the line is Moduleo Horizon Wood. The color we like is Ontario Oak 24336.

The RV shop sources from a local carpet shop so we went there to pick up some samples to take back to the Airstream. We took the whole sample package and I immediately noticed the weight. The vinyl is 4.5mm thick which is about 5/32". The sample square for our desired color was 7 3/4" x 11 3/4" and weights 15.2 oz. The RV shop wants to pull out the rear dinette/side couch and install the floor and put the furniture back down on it. The reason is because the Ultra Leather that covers the dinette siding extends all the way to the floor on my Classic. They will cut around walls and kitchen cabinets. I think they will install the twin bed framing before the floor but I'll have to check with them.

I made a rough calculation to estimate the weight of the new floor. I measured the kitchen/living area and the the hallway extending forward into the bedroom area and calculated 85 sq feet. The extra kitchen footage under the cabinets that won't be floored is used for the bathroom. I came up with a figure of about 135 lbs.

Kelvin

If I may, just a word of caution with that selection. Being in the commercial flooring business and never having heard of that manufacturer, I went to the website to review the specs on the product, specifically the wear layer (the top-most layer of the flooring that absorbs impact and takes the wear). The website did not list any specifications, therefore no wear layer thickness listed. That concerns me somewhat. This product is a residential product and is designed for lighter foot traffic, vs. one that is for a commercial application and higher foot traffic. Remember, you are in and out of the Airstream quite often during its use and will being bringing in silicates and particulates on the bottom of your shoes (no, door mats will not efficiently scrub those off the bottom of your shoes...they are embedded until they come off by themselves) directly into the cabin. Those particulates will then abrade the wear layer during normal foot traffic and you will notice a 'dulling' of the floor finish after some time, usually in pivot areas first. Being in 'the business' for over 30 years, I will caution you that just because the RV shop recommends it, it doesn't mean that it is best suited for the Airstream. It most likely means they worked out a convenient deal with the carpet shop down the road and they are more comfortable with it.

[KJRitchie]

I searched Google for this brand and found a post stating the wear layer is .55mm. Not sure how that translates to mil so I looked it up. 1mm = 39 mils so this floor has a wear layer of 18 to 20 mils?

The RV shop in this area has a pretty good reputation and has been in business a while. Looking at a piece of the vinyl floor Airstream installed vs this LVT sample I can't imagine the OEM sheet vinyl standing up as long as the LVT but you are in the business so your advice is important.

I've still got the sample at home. I'll post a photo of the edge of the sample when I get home tonight. The wear layer is attached to the black base which has the click to lock mechanism. Its supposed to be a fiberglass material. The commercial warranty is 10 years, residential is 30 years.

Kelvin

[A W Warn]

I read the install guide for the IVC US floating click edge tiles. It says this floor needs expansion gaps of 1/4" minimum around the perimeter. If I remember correctly, that literature said 15 year residential warranty. It's made in Europe, so I'll bet it's pricy.

[KJRitchie]

Yes, an expansion gap seems to be mentioned for most flooring. The RV shop plans to glue the flooring down. Not sure how much weight the adhesive will be. They plan to install molding around cabinets and match the hickory.

My only concerns is they want to remove the rear dinette and side couch and install the flooring then put the dinette on the flooring. This is because the dinette sides are covered in Ultra Leather down to the floor and they can't attach a molding to hide the expansion gap. I'm thinking why they can't install wood strips for the dinette and side couch frames to rest on so it raises the dinette 5mm. This would allow the 4.5mm floor to slip under the dinette/couch a little bit and still expand. The inside of the dinette is just the bare subfloor. That would save some weight.

The sample of this LVT is much thicker than the OEM sheet flooring. I can't imagine how it would buckle especially glued down.

The work would be performed in a conditioned worked space.

Kelvin

[KJRitchie]

Here is our initial choice subject to change.

IVCUS Moduleo Horizon Ontario Oak

Kelvin