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Old 03-31-2010, 10:08 PM   #15
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Good thread. I haven't had much luck with Thompson's in other applications. I haven't tried West Expoxy but it looks interesting. As for leveler, I would worry about a concrete type leveler, even just a skim coat. My idea is to fill the major defects with a wood compound and then put down a good layer of thin, high quality ply run "crossways" to the floor. Maybe I'm bass ackwards, but I figure it can't hurt to do a layer over the existing floor, covering the seams.

So, with a good adhesive holding down a very smooth layer of plywood, I figure the subfloor is ready to go except for sealing it. Epoxy might be overkill. I figure any high quality sealer is going to do better than the original untreated plywood... and honestly, 90 percent of my floor in the Overlander was still solid when I pulled up the old carpet.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:02 PM   #16
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On our Airstream we used a low viscosity epoxy, thinned w/ Xylene for one or two coats, filled any holes w/ epoxy + microballons and finishing w/ a coat of plain epoxy. I wet sanded w/ 200 grit in between coats, and finished it w/ a coat of aluminum filled moisture curing polyurethane paint.
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:40 AM   #17
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I used as the final coats, cement floor epoxy. It was really thin and really penetrated. I put on three coats sanding between coats.

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Old 04-01-2010, 08:42 AM   #18
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Recipe for waterproofing

I copied this text from some boat building web site (I'm trying to find it now). I have not tried this but sounded interesting. Here's the text:

[I]Start with a small amount of resin (depending on project size) and thin it down with 4 to 6 parts acetone until it's almost like thick water. This is the secret, because the acetone will soak deep into every one of the most microscopic pores and fibers of the wood or other material. It really soaks in, carrying the resin with it. It's application is so light and thin, that it tolerates wood flexing without problem. It becomes an integral part of the wood or concrete and it will not crack or separate.
*
You'll need to use far more catalyst than recommended on the label, so increase the catalyst by the number of parts thinned or more. Don't worry about using too much catalyst with this recipe.
*
Lets say you're mixing up 1 gallon of this stuff - 4, 6, or more parts acetone to 1 part resin. For the purpose of calculating the amount of catalyst to use, treat the gallon as pure resin. If the catalyst bottle says to use 1oz for a gallon of resin, then use 1oz for your gallon of waterproofing sauce. Then give it a few more squirts for extra measure - again, excessive catalyst is not a problem when the resin is diluted like this.
*
Too much catalyst is only a problem when applying thick - un thinned amounts of resin - fiberglass application for example. Too much catalyst can cause so much heat that the resin becomes brittle, and that would be a structural compromise of the resin. We don't have to worry about that here:
This is not a structural application like resin on fiberglass.
Our resin is so thin that heat build up is not a problem.
With your first application done, it's time for some more. Mix up more of the waterproofing solution, this time using less acetone, and less catalyst. Apply, and repeat, reducing the acetone dilution each time. You will know when you've got enough coats because you will not see any coloration changes that indicate acetone soak-up is occurring in the wood - wallah! it is sealed.
*
You're not looking for any thick buildup of resin here, but more appropriately, the thinnest (least brittle) amount you can. You should still be able to easily feel the texture of the wood or concrete. All you've done is get the acetone to draw the resin into the pores of the wood, or whatever material you are waterproofing.
*
Your final coat should be done with waxed or finishing resin. Or, you can use the cellophane kicking method described above. The cellophane method of kicking resin is nice, because you will not need to remove the finishing wax with sanding or messy acetone wipe. But if you intend to paint, you'll need to sand the surface anyway. Just use the waxed resin and sand the surface when ready.
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHoot View Post
I copied this text from some boat building web site (I'm trying to find it now). I have not tried this but sounded interesting. Here's the text:

[I]Start with a small amount of resin (depending on project size) and thin it down with 4 to 6 parts acetone until it's almost like thick water. This is the secret, because the acetone will soak deep into every one of the most microscopic pores and fibers of the wood or other material. It really soaks in, carrying the resin with it. It's application is so light and thin, that it tolerates wood flexing without problem. It becomes an integral part of the wood or concrete and it will not crack or separate.
*
You'll need to use far more catalyst than recommended on the label, so increase the catalyst by the number of parts thinned or more. Don't worry about using too much catalyst with this recipe.
*
Lets say you're mixing up 1 gallon of this stuff - 4, 6, or more parts acetone to 1 part resin. For the purpose of calculating the amount of catalyst to use, treat the gallon as pure resin. If the catalyst bottle says to use 1oz for a gallon of resin, then use 1oz for your gallon of waterproofing sauce. Then give it a few more squirts for extra measure - again, excessive catalyst is not a problem when the resin is diluted like this.
*
Too much catalyst is only a problem when applying thick - un thinned amounts of resin - fiberglass application for example. Too much catalyst can cause so much heat that the resin becomes brittle, and that would be a structural compromise of the resin. We don't have to worry about that here:
This is not a structural application like resin on fiberglass.
Our resin is so thin that heat build up is not a problem.
With your first application done, it's time for some more. Mix up more of the waterproofing solution, this time using less acetone, and less catalyst. Apply, and repeat, reducing the acetone dilution each time. You will know when you've got enough coats because you will not see any coloration changes that indicate acetone soak-up is occurring in the wood - wallah! it is sealed.
*
You're not looking for any thick buildup of resin here, but more appropriately, the thinnest (least brittle) amount you can. You should still be able to easily feel the texture of the wood or concrete. All you've done is get the acetone to draw the resin into the pores of the wood, or whatever material you are waterproofing.
*
Your final coat should be done with waxed or finishing resin. Or, you can use the cellophane kicking method described above. The cellophane method of kicking resin is nice, because you will not need to remove the finishing wax with sanding or messy acetone wipe. But if you intend to paint, you'll need to sand the surface anyway. Just use the waxed resin and sand the surface when ready.

Just a word of warning when you mix the catalyzer aggresively like this sometimes the mix heats up a lot more than expected. Not all the time but every once in awhile you hear of it even starting fires. It's a good instruction and I would use it but I wouldn't mix it in the garage if you know what I mean.
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:15 AM   #20
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Maybe ...a little bit too much?

Really Guys....I mean no offense here...but, I think your getting a bit anal on this floor prep. From what I understand this is just an installation of a floating floor over the original. The only place a leak will be a problem will be from the side walls and maybe down a wall from an upper leak. Water proofing the side walls can't be done from the inside. Its either done at the time of floor replacement or seam sealing outside. Wall leaking from windows or seams is corrected by window seals and seam sealing. As far as I'm concerned all this other epoxy, linseed oil, Thompsons, etc., etc., is like a fart in the wind. A good quality porch paint will preserve and prep the floor surface for a floating floor application. If the original floor is rough and worrysome to you...an inexpensive overlay of Luan is easy to install for that smooth base under a linoleum floor...
and even that is not necessary under the more rigid "click" flooring like Pergo.
I did try something ...strictly an experiment...on both a Pergo and an Armstrong floating plank floor. I filled the perimeter expansion space with a clear silicone bead, hidden under the base board, thinking it would still provide expansion capability and seal the floor edge surface from spilled liquids.
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:32 AM   #21
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Really Guys....I mean no offense here...but, I think your getting a bit anal on this floor prep. From what I understand this is just an installation of a floating floor over the original. The only place a leak will be a problem will be from the side walls and maybe down a wall from an upper leak. Water proofing the side walls can't be done from the inside. Its either done at the time of floor replacement or seam sealing outside. Wall leaking from windows or seams is corrected by window seals and seam sealing. As far as I'm concerned all this other epoxy, linseed oil, Thompsons, etc., etc., is like a fart in the wind. A good quality porch paint will preserve and prep the floor surface for a floating floor application. If the original floor is rough and worrysome to you...an inexpensive overlay of Luan is easy to install for that smooth base under a linoleum floor...
and even that is not necessary under the more rigid "click" flooring like Pergo.
I did try something ...strictly an experiment...on both a Pergo and an Armstrong floating plank floor. I filled the perimeter expansion space with a clear silicone bead, hidden under the base board, thinking it would still provide expansion capability and seal the floor edge surface from spilled liquids.
I agree,

After all, there were no sealants on our original floors. I just sealed the edges and about 4-5" in from edge on all my flooring and sealed the entire piece of flooring under the bathroom area. The bottom side of the flooring I used some exterior deck/fence type water repellent stain that I had left over, plus a small amount of stain purchased at a paint store for $1.50 that was a goof.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:13 AM   #22
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I agree,

After all, there were no sealants on our original floors. I just sealed the edges and about 4-5" in from edge on all my flooring and sealed the entire piece of flooring under the bathroom area. The bottom side of the flooring I used some exterior deck/fence type water repellent stain that I had left over, plus a small amount of stain purchased at a paint store for $1.50 that was a goof.
This is why I choose to be anal on this particular topic:

Stock Airstream +46 years =
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:35 AM   #23
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damage is from the wall inward

As you can see...the damage to the floor always starts at the wall...ie., edge of the plywood floor. If that edge area is not sealed that is where the damage encroaches from. If you have water damage to the center of the floor area....you have another problem. So, seal the edges of your plywood sheets. Go for sealing the entire floor, but I think its a waste of time and money to go off the deep end.
My floor here is 53 years old.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:45 AM   #24
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The reason we sealed the entire floor is that we're planning on using rugs rather than recarpeting or using Pergo, etc. I really like being able to remove the rugs and get things clean (and track down any leaks). Of course, I don't want bare plywood showing anywhere, so.... not quite an aluminum tent, but perhaps a cabin.

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Old 04-01-2010, 11:31 AM   #25
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This is why I choose to be anal on this particular topic:

Stock Airstream +46 years =
Hey it's all good!
Time, skill and $$$ is all it takes. We all have different amounts of each and make our decisions accordingly.
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Old 04-01-2010, 02:20 PM   #26
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C'mon... we're all a little prone to over-engineering here.

My frame (which still had original paint on it) has two coats of POR-15 on it now. The floor (which was 90 percent decent) is 100 percent replaced.

Nothing could be as bad as the original carpeting. That stuff really held the moisture. The classic rot pattern I saw was rear bath, door and fridge vent. The coach sat outside and unused for years. I figure I would have to really neglect the old girl over the next 30 years to match the rot I saw.

Here's my thought. The interior is pretty much empty. If there's a time to seal the plywood subfloor, it is now. Epoxy, sealer, paint... anything is an improvement over raw wood.
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:09 PM   #27
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C'mon... we're all a little prone to over-engineering here.

My frame (which still had original paint on it) has two coats of POR-15 on it now. The floor (which was 90 percent decent) is 100 percent replaced.

Nothing could be as bad as the original carpeting. That stuff really held the moisture. The classic rot pattern I saw was rear bath, door and fridge vent. The coach sat outside and unused for years. I figure I would have to really neglect the old girl over the next 30 years to match the rot I saw.

Here's my thought. The interior is pretty much empty. If there's a time to seal the plywood subfloor, it is now. Epoxy, sealer, paint... anything is an improvement over raw wood.
I think your approach is the best. Anything is better than nothing and the time to do it is now!
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:31 PM   #28
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If you decide to use a leveling product be sure to chose one that is flexable enough for the movement of a TT. These are cement based, and most will crack under movement. Call the munufacturer and ask about this specific application.

Carol
At Lowes, Dap sells a flexible floor leveler product the does not fully harden. They also sell a Dap product that does harden. Both in the same style gallon can so be careful. I have used the flexible product and indeed it does remain flexible and can also be feathered out to a nice edge.

Larry
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