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Old 05-23-2006, 07:02 PM   #21
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Does anybody know if expanding foam would be lighter?
I was thinking of the fiberglass in the underbelly that no mater what gets wet.
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Old 05-23-2006, 07:31 PM   #22
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Hi Scott,

Thank you for the praise. Can I tell my wife you said that? Maybe she'll be nicer to me Just kidding!

I'm afraid that if you had to pay a shop to fabricate an aluminum frame for you...well you might as well go to Jackson Center and just pick out the new one of your choice as it'd surely be cheaper.

It's really pretty easy to work with aluminum and rivets though. Think about how they took anybody and everybody during WWII and had them building aircraft. You can learn to rivet in about ten minutes and you can get really good at it in about two hours. It's not hard at all. And if you just design all your connections so that a rivet is always loaded in shear (side to side) rather than tension (trying to pull it out of the hole you put it through) you'd be fine. Of course, there are a few formulas to use, but it's not hard. Any decent structural engineer could help you with that. Heck, if your serious about doing it, PM me and I'll help you.

Aluminum is softer than steel and it's actually very easy to work with. You'll need to get special saw blades for cutting it, as it's so soft that it will quickly gum up a normal steel cutting blade. But other than that, it's much easier than steel. It drills a lot easier. It's not as easy to work as wood, but it's not bad at all. Especially not for the simple kind of stuff we're talking about. We'd basically just be cutting channel/I-beam and plate and then drilling and riveting it together.

I really don't know what the material prices are now. I know some aluminum is completely out of this world price wise. I used to go to the Boeing surplus when I lived in Seattle and you could score some awesome deals there. I bought some 777 compression stringer, which was made of 7000 series aluminum, for like $2.00 per pound. That was the good 70,000 psi stuff. I'm sure Boeing paid $100 per foot for it, so I got it for probably 1/50 what it cost new. As well (I wish I knew then what I know now...I would have scammed all of it) they had honeycomb floor panel material there. THAT would be THE TICKET for an Airstream floor. It was an aluminum honeycomb core with a composite skin on top and bottom. Very light, very rigid, and totally water proof. They had 4x8 sheets of the stuff for next to nothing, and they had loads of it. I bet that stuff was $500 per sheet new, and I think you could get it there for about $30 per sheet. I didn't have my 'Stream back then, though, and didn't think to get any. Anybody who lives out there...that is a source waiting for you to tap it.

Anyway, if I had to guess, buying the materials new, you'd probably have $3000 in the aluminum. If you could put it together yourself, it wouldn't be that bad. The tooling investment wouldn't be too bad. But if you had to pay somebody at a real shop, it'd be a lot, I think. But, it really is easy to work the stuff yourself. I wouldn't hesitate to jump in on it if I had the materials.

Another route might be if you could somehow find a damaged semi truck trailer and salvage most of the frame off it. You might buy it cheap and get a great deal on the metal. I don't know what kind of wreck you could find where the frame would be still usable and the rest of it trashed. Their frames might be way too heavy anyway. Don't really need a 50,000lb capacity frame for the Airstream.

Some of the others on here had some really good ideas for weight savings where you basically rid yourself of all the truly unneeded stuff. I read on this forum awhile back where one fellow knocked 600lbs off the weight of his trailer by replacing certain things with lighter versions. It all added up. I'm sure you could find it using the search function. May be some good ideas in there too. I think he replaced the gauchos with futons, and stuff like that.

Good luck!
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Old 05-23-2006, 08:30 PM   #23
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I inventory everything I put in my AS and at the end of every trip I mark if I really used it. At the end of the season I decide what I really does need.

In about 15 years the big weight reduction will hapen. The last of the tricycle motors should be gone along with there toys. The ride is so SO much smoother without their wheight.
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Old 05-23-2006, 09:03 PM   #24
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Thanks JimGolden,appreciate such a good and experienced reply.Im not really afraid to fabricate ,but never have thought about a project such as an aluminum frame of that type or usage for a trailer .

Scott.
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:00 PM   #25
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Mattresses?

If your bed is permanent and not folding, you could consider swapping spring mattress for "Air Bed" inflatables.. Newer ones not as bouncy as old ar mattresses, and are a whole lot lighter. Do pretty good job of insulating as well...

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Old 05-25-2006, 05:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condoluminum
If your bed is permanent and not folding, you could consider swapping spring mattress for "Air Bed" inflatables.. Newer ones not as bouncy as old ar mattresses, and are a whole lot lighter. Do pretty good job of insulating as well...

John McG
And, you could inflate it with Helium, it would save (help support?) more weight, and you would have that "light as air" feeling in the morning.
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:08 PM   #27
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And, you could inflate it with Helium, it would save (help support?) more weight, and you would have that "light as air" feeling in the morning.
YOU TOO FUNNY!!
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:15 PM   #28
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Although i personally do not want to sleep on a air-bed, i do think the mattress or any upholstery pads are a good place to look for weight to lose.

A double or queen bed can weigh a lot! and my trailer comes with both a dinette/bed and a long side couch/bed. All that in a Caravel. So as i do the remodel i am looking into the lightest filler for my pads while still giving my a good bed.
New foam is a great improvement for many reasons, and is almost always lighter than what we are lugging around now. The issue that comes up for me , is that the most comfortable bed foams are usually the heaviest, since dense flexible foam is so decadent vs less dense types that have to be firmer to stop you from bottoming out when you sit down.

I thing i have been working on, is different layers, a firmer/ lightweight for a base to stop bottoming out topped with a thinner layer of more soft, dense luxe bed. i will do some more weight calculations before a final purchase.

Wonder about other padding options that may be light weight? Like close cell foam, like you find in yoga mats? Any one seen a website that sell different foams that include a weight per cubic foot or anything?
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GO Bob
I inventory everything I put in my AS and at the end of every trip I mark if I really used it. At the end of the season I decide what I really does need.
this is a really good point and a good plan, I know i keep way too much stuff in my trailer. All those compartments makes me just find stuff to go in them! If i threw out everything i did not use from year to year it would be great.

Quote:
In about 15 years the big weight reduction will hapen. The last of the tricycle motors should be gone along with there toys. The ride is so SO much smoother without their wheight.
Tricycle motors?!! ok that is funny!!!
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Old 09-09-2006, 11:47 PM   #30
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so i did my first trip in my new little trailer and my little T/V, boy i need to shed a few pounds! Everything felt safe the whole time up and down the mountains but it was slow going and i got a work out.

I live right by Boeing Surplus and love the place, so plan on it being a weekly stop off, looking for those honey comb panels.

Jim- any idea how thick of centers and skins i would need to look at to make work? I was looking at a few websites of them and was wanting to understand there strength to weight info more

next i am going to do a hard inventory, i definitely travel with to much!!
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Old 09-10-2006, 07:23 AM   #31
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Replace the Univolt with an Intellipower converter. Loose about 25 lbs. Darol
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:18 AM   #32
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anyone found any nice counter top or door front materials that are solid enough for the job but give a weight savings?
the counter tops seems to be a place that weighs a lot.
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Old 09-10-2006, 01:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
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anyone found any nice counter top or door front materials that are solid enough for the job but give a weight savings?
the counter tops seems to be a place that weighs a lot.
In my former TrailManor, all the counter tops were 3/4" foam laminated between two sheets of thin plywood. The top plywood had a laminate-like finish, but plain old plywood and laminate on top would work fine. There was a solid 3/4" square wood edge all around and wood was laminated in wherever items such as the sink were inserted. The result was exceptionally light and looked just like a solid laminated counter.

I'm surprised that Airstream doesn't use something like that on the small trailers to further reduce weight so that smaller tow vehicles could be used.
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Old 09-10-2006, 06:11 PM   #34
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i like this idea, i am going to be doing new and more counters on my Caravel and a sheet of that pink ridged foam insulation sounds like it would be great. you could maybe just put the formica or wilsonart of whatever right on the top side and something stable for the bottom 1/8 ply or maybe just a sheet of some corrugated plastic sheet. if the whole thing was properly glued and hopefully vacuumed laminated, one would think it would be more than plenty strong as long as you remember not to do jumping jacks on them. This may be a way to make drawer & cupboard fronts too, i like things to have some visual weight to them, skinny little bendy doors look cheep imho, this would solve that quick.

thanks
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Old 09-10-2006, 06:48 PM   #35
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you could maybe just put the formica or wilsonart of whatever right on the top side and something stable for the bottom 1/8 ply or maybe just a sheet of some corrugated plastic sheet.
thanks
The Wilsonart will probably shatter if something is dropped on it if there isn't some support. I would put at least a thin layer of plywood under it.

Trailmanor is so weight sensitive that I'm sure they thought carefully before putting the layer of plywood on the top surface. I would put the 1/8 ply on both sides of the foam.

Remember to put wood hardpoints in wherever there is a stress point like a sink or upper cabinet.
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Old 09-10-2006, 08:16 PM   #36
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Rivka; You are lucky to live next to Boeing surplus. The aluminum honeycomb panels might work for a table. You would need to use a mix of micro balloons and epoxy to seal the edges. or possibly some sort of aluminum channel for edge treatment. Might look sort of retro 60's kitchen table like. Snoop around at Boeing and ask a few ?s. Most of us airplane types are always up for a new challenge. My plans for my Excella include a carbon fibre dinette table and counter top. If you are not familiar with vacuum bagging you might find some help at a local Experimental Aircraft Assn chapter. EAA.org for that. 2 bad you are not closer I'ld like to take the challenge. Any way any sort of foam for the center and light weight sides squished together with pressure would probably work as Pahaska recomended. You would need to do your own strength testing. Water bags work great for squishing things together. Feel free to contact me, I've worked with glass and composites for some time. good luck Tim
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:42 PM   #37
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yeah i feel lucky to have Boeing nearby too. haven't found the honeycomb panels yet, making good friends with the yard crew and figuring out the delivery schedule so checking weekly is getting to be a smooth trip. the biggest problem come when i spend all day playing in the yard and the warehouse with all the random goodies! to many toys!!!!!
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:23 PM   #38
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Rivka: Hello from Vancouver BC. Can I ask where the Boeing surplus store is ? What sorts of things do they sell there? I've seen some surplus "Boeing tools" for sale at local wood shows. Is this place open to all public? Thx Jim
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:22 AM   #39
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Rivka: Hello from Vancouver BC. Can I ask where the Boeing surplus store is ? What sorts of things do they sell there? I've seen some surplus "Boeing tools" for sale at local wood shows. Is this place open to all public? Thx Jim

Boeing surplus is a magical place where they toss out anything they are not using this week and let the public come in and buy it all, often for a great deal. Mostly tools and tooling parts, old office furniture of all types and a good source for sheet metal and scrap. Remember that planes and airstreams have a lot in common!

here is the link with one promise from you..... i have been going all spring and summer waiting for honeycomb (a rare thing there i now figure) so if you find some on your first trip there you simply must share. jk if you are planning to come down for a adventure let me know we can make a afternoon of it!
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:22 PM   #40
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Weight

We are in the process of gutting our 79 Sovereign 31' down to the walls. We are going to put back carpet, new cabinets an electric cooktop and electric fridge. I beleive we will save quite a bit of weight this way. This is not for everyone, (we want ever be away from electric supply) but we completely did away with the propane system, you save all the weight of the tanks & furnace. We are installing 110V electric wall heaters.
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