Weight Reduction

[JimGolden]

Hi All,

I posted this question in another thread on "Green Airstreams" and got no responses whatsoever. That thread, though, got me thinking.

What ideas would you all have to reduce weight in our coaches? I'm looking at a total rebuild. I mean to increase the strength of the frame (actually replace it with a new stronger one), but I want to lower the overall weight of the coach.

What ideas do you all have for making the trailers lighter?

I think the floor could be lighter. I think I could maybe lighten the cabinetry up a bit, although that will be hard as the cabinets in my '77 are pretty light already. I will be installing larger tanks so that will be a hit. What can we do to lighten them up?

[LI Pets]

The heavy things I removed and or rebuilt or replaced with lighter ;

Univolt, gaucho, table, fridge, doors, stove, metal ducts, copper waterlines, wet insulation, AC

It adds up to more than you would think in weight savings.

[TinShack]

I put mine on Weight Watchers. It worked for awhile but the weight came back.

[rmpray]

Good point. I've thought about heavy use of foam laminates and even scrapping the bunk mattresses and replacing with air mattress...Of course look at some refits and see 1/2 or 3/4 inch ply for the seats and bunks and ya know someone is adding needless weight. (See that in a rather neat, but unneccesarily heavy rig down the rod from me. It is neat just seeing how much strength one can get out of light materials.
Other ideas out there?

[doorgunner]

I have 2 rigs; the excella has solid wood cabinets, lotta weight, the 73 has el cheapo paneling. What they have in common is heavy appliances. The factory radarange in the 86 crapped out , it weighed 73lbs, replaced it with a better unit that weighed 34 lbs. The flip up tables are way heavy as are the dinette table.So I guess it depends what years you are talking about. The univolt antique can be replaced with a newer 3 or 4 stage unit and a solar panel for about an even trade in weight. Without doing a shell off and some sort of "trick" floor and frame I could see spending lotsa bucks.Composites are pretty cost prohibitive and most folks do not know how to work with them or have the correct tools, (shears, breathing apparatus, vacuum pumps etc.). The gaucho is heavy also, I found another forum member that wanted it as he will use it with kids. Thats another thing, I use my rigs for only 2 people so a lot of remodelling reduces weight. Leave all that other stuff you bring with you home. After a trip I look at what I did not use and put it on a possible ejection list. Just be carefull doing all this as you change the weight. Glass is heavy, lexan? Just how much are you wanting to spend? Its all a trade off, this could go on forever! DG

[doorgunner]

I ripped out the back 2 seats in my burb , almost 150 lbs. Lotsa room for my UAV and firewood and chaise lounge and big bulky items. DG

[HiHoAgRV]

Just for kicks, go to the Airstream web site and look up the published weights of the various years units. I just did it today but left my notes at work. A pal is looking at a early 2000's 25 classic. It weighs almost 1000 lbs more than my 29'. The only current models that are lighter than my trailer are 22' and under! Looking back in time, 10 years befor mine, nothing was as heavy as my unit.
The vintage guys definitely have an advantage on total weight/length.
For weight reduction ideas, look OLD.

[doorgunner]

yup old is good. every time I have something wrong the cut it out of me, that's real weight reduction!

[Fyrzowt]

Gettin' old ain't so bad...it beats the alternative!

[KeithC]

Hi Jim,

I read your post, but was not sure of your goals in seeking a lighter weight AS trailer other than just being "more green".

A Vintage Airstream already has a very light weight aircraft type design that gives an exceptional service life.

You don't see any 25, 30, 40 or 50 year old SOB trailers on the road for a reason. They they have all deterioted to the point of unecomonical repair. The frames are recycled and the rest of the componets are in a landfill.

IMHO if I wanted to save weight on my AS TT, for the way I camp, in modern trailer park usage, it would have:

1) no fresh water tank/ pump/ fresh water tank plumbing, I would rely on "city water".

2) Empty black water tank before any long distant TT movement.

3) My tow vehicle would have a low sulfur diesel engine.

4) I would be equipped with two aluminum LP tanks, only one full.

5) I would have a load distribution hitch.

6) I would have a 110 frig. Not a two or three way frig.

7) All food would be purchase local. Also charcoal, firewood, etc.

8) If an ice chest was absolutly necessary during transport, I would use dry ice.

9) I would require my wife to attend to me in the shower, scrub my back, wash my hair, rub oil on me and massage my feet.....to save water of course.

Good luck to us both, especially me.

[Fyrzowt]

Keith,
You have a good list there, I'll have to show #9 to my wife.
Question - if you will only carry one of your LP tanks full, why not just eliminate one of them and save the weight?
Dave

[doorgunner]

Hey Jim,
I just re read your initial post! If you're gonna redo the frame- have you thought about a composite floor incorporating a frame support system? That could be a substantial weight saving and you could build in a rear bike carrier to boot!You could also have your holding tanks molded within the framework kinda like aircraft fuel cells.Just a few late night thoughts. Ditch the carpet, use lightening holes everywhere you can, plastic mirrors not glass, off the drapes, man are they heavy. Tow cables instead of chain.Plastic eating utensils and plated, plastic skillets and pots, light water. Get rid of the airconditioner use a fan and a cold adult beverage. etc etc

[Excella CM]

Since money is no object for us airstreamers, the floor could be replaced with hi-tec honeycomb laminate panels–light, strong and pricey.

PortaFab Aluminum Honeycomb Panels

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

I ripped out the back 2 seats in my burb , almost 150 lbs. Lotsa room for my UAV and firewood and chaise lounge and big bulky items. DG

Hi, like doorgunner, I removed the third row seat from my Navigator to save the un-needed weight and to have more room to carry things that I don't want to carry in my trailer. I also saved 1,000 lbs by buying a Safari instead of a Classic. [also saved about $15,000.00 on that choice]

[overlander63]

If you're not going boondocking, you can replace the group 27 battery with a group 24, saves about 15 pounds. Also, fewer windows, windows are heavy. A 1970's Argosy (with fewer windows) was almost 2000 pounds lighter than comparable Airstreams. If you have Vista View windows, you can remove them like zeppelenium did with his coach. You would have the advantage of reducing potential leak points as well. The small oval windows below the main windows can be removed as well.
You can remove the pocket doors, and replace them with curtains, and save another 20 or so pounds.

[85MH325]

If you built the trailer from the ground up for weight savings, using lighter materials and cutting out all of the "cool" features like the oval windows, you might save as much as 500 lbs. I doubt it would be much more than that tho. Water, at 8lb/gallon is the heaviest thing we carry. If your tanks (all together) hold 100 gallons (fresh, gray and black), that's potentially 800 lbs you can save just by dumping before hitting the road, and only leaving 5 gals or so in your fresh tank for on-the-road use. As was mentioned earlier, a single 20lb propane tanks weighs much less than two 40s. The new composite LP tanks weigh even less.

Good luck with your weight reduction program!

Roger

[Boondocker]

Or is the real issue fuel usage? If it is the second, you can gain a tremendous amount of ground by going 55-60 mph instead of 70. If I recall my physics correctly (big if), the majority of energy use related to weight is expended in the process of getting all that weight in motion. Once in motion, the primary energy load is related to wind resistance. I think it is the case that the force needed to move down the road is 1/2 the mass X the square of the velocity. So you can see how small decreases in speed should result in relatively large decreases in fuel expenditure. If my understanding of this is wrong, or if weight really is your concern; just pretend I didnt say anything .

[safari62]

Hi Jim,
I started that Green thread in hope of sharing ideas about ways to improve fuel savings and incorporate new materials in our trailers. I thought I did respond to your comment in the Green thread although probably as a general reply about cutting weight. This is what I did so far to reduce weight.

Replaced refrigerator, furnace and water heater with modern versions. all the originials were dead, but also extremely heavy. I have never moved a heavier refrigerator in my life. Also the water heater and furnace suprised me, not be their weight as much as how light the new ones are.
I replaced the steel fresh water tank with plastic and also copper lines for pex.
Aluminum LP tanks replaced old steel tanks.

That is about all I could do on the built in stuff. I did put down Armstrong tiles which, individually are light, but picking up the box makes you realize how small items add up. Frame and subfloor with finished floor are big items and where I thought a new "Green Airstream" could be a excellent way to start saving weight and therefore fuel. The Euro-Airstream is using a lighter and lower design I think fom Austria? That with the honeycomb floors would be a good start.
My safari has very light weight cabinets. I could never understand why some like the raised panel oak kountry kitchen look of some models. They look heavy and I am sure they are.
As Doorgunner mentioned look at what you bring along. The largest savings may include leaving your wife or girlfriend home including what they feel must come along for the trip. I can only speak for my significant other but marvel at the need for different table settings for breakfast, lunch and dinner. She also must pack enough food for two weeks on a weekend trip. But that's another battle.
On the Green thing.....it's all about using better materials that are substainable, healthier, lighter and better for the environment.
gary

[JimGolden]

Good replies everyone. Thanks.

Gary, sorry if I missed your reply.

DG, many good ideas!

Keith, I especially liked #9

I did have one neat idea for the floors: Corrugated plastic. I set up several warehouses with it for the storage shelves for cabinet parts. I put a cross piece every 16". The plastic was 13mm deep. I forget the weight per square foot, but it's not much. Far less than the MDF shelves we were using. It's very abrasion resistant, of course it's totally moisture proof. You run the flutes in the direction of bending, so in this case we'd run them front to back on the trailer. They don't handle point/crush loads real well, but for anything like a foot print, they were great. It may be simply glue a sheet of something light, stiff, and solid to the top of the 13mm corrugated plastic so that you cannot get a point load reacting directly onto it.

I don't want to get super nuts money wise. I was just thinking fairly easy things to do.

I will be doing a lot of boon docking so the tanks must stay. They will be larger than OEM actually. As such, the batteries must stay big too.

I will change out the univolt. I like the ideas of the solar cells.

I think my trailer's empty weight is stated at 5600lbs right now. I'd like to keep it to that or less, but with my enhancements. I will be changing out most of the appliances, if not all.

My wife just last night told me to "...sell that turd in the yard and get something we can use now!" It's an uphill battle for me....

Cheers

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by JimGolden

My wife just last night told me to "...sell that turd in the yard and get something we can use now!" It's an uphill battle for me....

Cheers

All I could say to my wife would be, "Yes Dear."
Remember the 3 phrases to a happy marriage: 'yes dear,' 'no dear' and 'no excuse dear.'
Why not do what she wants, your life will be easier.
Remember, we are all in this together.

R