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Old 10-09-2006, 02:43 PM   #29
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1968 30' Sovereign
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Floor...subfloor?

So...I have spent hours on the search feature, going through thread after thread to see if someone else has already asked my question, and it doesn't seem like anyone has...so I'll ask here.

The Idea: Use 1"x8" Cypress tongue-in-grove planks for the underfloor *instead of* plywood, marine plywood, signboard, honey-combed aluminium, etc.

Pros: Cypress doesn't rot. Ever. If I wanted to, I could get cypress planks that have been under water for the last century. It has darn little expansion. Its strength, flexibility, compression ratios, etc., etc. outstrip pine plywood....also, I can just fine sand and poly-urethane it, and I will have a nice, hardwood floor without extra covering. (either carpet, pergo or hardwood) It is, of course, much easier to work than a normal hardwood, being classified as somewhere between a hardwood and a softwood. It is much less porous than pine.

Cons: You tell me. Why can't I use planks? Why is this a bad idea?

Demolition goes on. Pictures this evening of the empty hulk of the A.S. Floor comes out tomorrow, so we will know what the frame looks like....and if this Monty goes on, or if I am putting a large amount of A.S. parts up for sale. (If the frame is absolutely shot, there is no reason to attempt a restoration. If the frame is salvagable, we go on.)

Peace,
Caliann

*The tired, filthy, sweaty, itchy Mrs. Merlyn*
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Old 10-09-2006, 03:04 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrob
Your ideas seem workable, let us see.

As an owner of a tankless water heater and 3 teens, consider that the interior space is small and during the long luxury showers the water will serve to steam the wallpaper unless venting is very strong, Add to that when breathing each body gives off 1 to 2 liters of water as moisture per day that will condense on the cold walls.
I was considering doing the bathroom (or at least the bath/shower room, if we do a split mid-bathroom) in something a little more ...substantial....than wallpaper for just that reason.

More along the lines of a tasteful showerboard or....if I can find something that will work, a thin, curved tile. I'm not sure about that yet, as I haven't researched the interiors on bathrooms for an A.S. yet.

Heck, I might just resin-ize the whole dang thing and inlay capece and abalone shell mosaics. *grinz*

Long, hot showers are a necessity. Figuring out how to make them happen without damaging anything is the more difficult part. I am sure there is a way, I just haven't come across it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrob
We have rear bath with mid-twins, a bad combo in my mind also. The costs of a change to rear queen, mid bath might be prohibitive but it does work on paper. The 22' CCD has a great mid bath for example.
The costs would *certainly* be prohibitive....if we weren't already going to replumb, re-pipe and re-wire everything already. Propane lines, water lines, waste lines and wiring *all* have to be re-done. I'm not risking myself or my hubby to rat-chewed wiring, corroded copper propane lines....or, for that matter, oxidized waste pipes.

BUT, since all that has to be done *anyway*, if we're going to move rooms around, this is a good time to do it.

The CCD midbath is certianly sweet...and efficient. Would it hurt your feelings if I said I have my heart set on a split bath? Not so much for luxury as for functional reasons. If I gotta go, I am not fooling around. And my innards don't want to wait for the better half to get out of the shower.

Peace,
Caliann
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Old 10-09-2006, 04:34 PM   #31
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Progress!

Woo hoo!

Well, she's gutted. Stem to stern, the only things left of the interior are the parts I couldn't figure out how to remove- the toilet, the furnace and the hot water heater.

Couple of interesting finds. I found one of the origional gas lamps under the streetside bed. Under the bathroom counter down beside the toilet I found the last one to challenge the rat for ownership of the trailer- an opossum. A very VERY dead opossum. Least it doesn't stink any more.

Anywho, I will take pictures once I get it swept out and presentable and post 'em up.

Merlyn
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:25 PM   #32
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Here we go- a couple quick pictures, before I go soak in the shower for a week or so:

1: All geared up and ready to work:


And proof that I didn't waste my day off:




I broke some of the floor out, and the frame looks WAY better than I expected, so far. Especially since I pulled the sections of floor up by hand :: chuckle ::

Tomorrow- We drag off all the crap I pulled out.

Merlyn
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Old 10-09-2006, 07:33 PM   #33
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Plywood will act, when appropriately fastened to the frame, like a "monolithic" panel, which is necessary to maintain the structural integrity of the overall design. The individual boards on a steel frame would never be able to provide the structural "panel" required to resist the lateral forces.

A side note: In houses they use to lay the individual boards at a diagonal (at least in California) and because you had repetitive wood joists to nail into you could get "shear value" out of the system. Unless you never move the trailer again, it would be a bad idea to use the 1x8's.
MarkR
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Old 10-09-2006, 08:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
Plywood will act, when appropriately fastened to the frame, like a "monolithic" panel, which is necessary to maintain the structural integrity of the overall design. The individual boards on a steel frame would never be able to provide the structural "panel" required to resist the lateral forces.
MarkR
So, what you are saying is that if I can find a way to place the planks under compression on the x-axis, I would be able to use them, as they would be exerting force against the C-channel?

How much exertion of force is necessary to maintain the integrity? 5 foot pounds per inch? 10?

Peace,
Caliann

*who is getting out her calculator*
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:24 PM   #35
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. . . since the overall design counts on the fact that the floor is a diaphram and that there our "outriggers" instead of a structural frame related to the perimeter body shape (so that the diaphram is essentially cantilevered out to the edges) . . . that it would be nearly impossible, in the real world, to resolve the forces created by a ride down the road with individual planks. i'm not an engineer but i think i have a pretty good idea how airstreams, at least vintage ones, are "held together". i'm sure there are engineers around here that could articulate it differently . . . or even disagree with me. and perhaps there is a "structural scheme" out there that could utilize the 1x8's but i think it would be fundamentally different than what you started with.

great progress.
MarkR
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:19 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliann
......

The CCD midbath is certianly sweet...and efficient. Would it hurt your feelings if I said I have my heart set on a split bath? Not so much for luxury as for functional reasons. If I gotta go, I am not fooling around. And my innards don't want to wait for the better half to get out of the shower.

Peace,
Caliann
Hurt my feelings? Funny. JCFERGUSON made a nice bath, check it out.
We all appreciate good thinking, a split bath is a way to consolidate the grey water on one side, kitchen sink and shower, and on the other side only the toilet right over the tank.
Or you could make the bath big enough to shower with your better half.
I will try to keep the piping on one side, in one place, keeping it short and simple, just like me.
R
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:12 PM   #37
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Just curious, any update on the rat yet? If the cats get him first I think Merlyn should wrestle him away, salvage the body, and run with it to the local taxidermist. Quite a conversation piece he could be!
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
Plywood will act, when appropriately fastened to the frame, like a "monolithic" panel, which is necessary to maintain the structural integrity of the overall design. The individual boards on a steel frame would never be able to provide the structural "panel" required to resist the lateral forces.

it would be a bad idea to use the 1x8's.
MarkR
I agree, have you considered fiberglassing the floor?

See this
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlynGraves
Here we go- a couple quick pictures, before I go soak in the shower for a week or so:
You are brave my friend...VERY brave! Can't wait to see the progress.
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:02 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrob
Hurt my feelings? Funny. JCFERGUSON made a nice bath, check it out.
We all appreciate good thinking, a split bath is a way to consolidate the grey water on one side, kitchen sink and shower, and on the other side only the toilet right over the tank.
Or you could make the bath big enough to shower with your better half.
I will try to keep the piping on one side, in one place, keeping it short and simple, just like me.
R
If I was in position providing opportunity to do such overhaul, go w/2 person shower. How could you ever regret. You've already mentioned long shower neccesity for marriage longevity...what could make a shower longer...can't wait to look at JCFERGUSON'S bath... hope its gotta a hot tub..JK
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:07 AM   #41
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Update

It's been raining close to biblical proportions out here, so no further work has been done. However, some research has been done, so an update on that.

1. The rat seems to have abandoned ship. Not that I blame her. I don't know if the cats got her, or if she made a bee-line for the woods one night, but we haven't found her in the trailer. A bit of a pity, really. I was looking forward to Merlyn having to go a few rounds with her.

2. We found some fairly inexpensive *cypress* plywood for $80 a sheet. So, all the rot resistance of cypress, no problems with the engineering aspects.

3. I don't know about the two-person shower. I'm thinking that the queen-sized bed is going to be the marriage councelling. *grinz* With limited space such as I have, giving up the extra foot to make the shower semi-two-person (Not a gaurantee. Merlyn, as you can tell from the pictures, is a big guy.), I might have to give up the rear bedroom and do something that isn't so easy to calculate weight distribution.

Since I am wanting about a 2-3 foot bathtub in there (maybe with jacuzzi jets? How much power would it pull?), perhaps it will be big enough for a Merlyn and a Caliann on its own. If not, well, that is why the Good Lord created bedrooms for the legally marital cleaving. *chuckles*

Okay, I am off to class. More ideas to be thrown around on here later.

Peace,
Caliann
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:58 AM   #42
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Weighty Calculations

For designing carrying capacity there are engineer types online. I think like a chemist.

Using an Airstream for a hot tub room and lounge is a cool idea.

One way to think of it is the length of the moment arm (length of frame from axle to the weight) times mass equals torque. The frame size and condition indicates capacity (also on gross weight tag which should be near front).
If your trailer is not rolling, bouncing down the road with full tanks near the rear bumper and there are stabilizing jacks to steady your rig, why not do what you want? Water is 8 lbs per gallon. If you are in a fixed unit there is no need for tanks, just a water supply and a sewer connection. A calculation of tub weight plus the weight of water and people is a+b+c=.
Cyprus plywood sounds great. Is it heavy?
R
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