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Old 10-10-2005, 01:38 PM   #1
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Inner skin insulation tape?

I am approaching the replacement of the inner skins and would like to source an insulation tape that can be applied to the formers to minimize heat transfer between the inner and outer skins. Our '59 Traveler suffers greatly in this area - especially the main structural formers. Any recommendations?

Thanks,

Craig
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Old 10-10-2005, 02:38 PM   #2
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I tried to use rubber electrical tape, the stretchy stuff about 1/16" thick with the red cloth backing, not the thin vinyl tape.

It didn't work because there was too much fiberglass floating around, and the tape wouldn't stick to the ribs.

Not to discourage you though. I wasn't that commited to the idea. I think a thermal break is a good idea.
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:39 PM   #3
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I just picked up 1960 tradewind, floor has to be replaced. the interior
smells too, should I take interior alum off and put in new insulation in the
walls and roof
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Old 10-26-2005, 11:00 PM   #4
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Brian -- Welcome to the Forums! 1960? Nice find.

Now, the smell -- were there smokers? Any general musty or old plastic smell is most probably from your floor. My Argosy trailer's "old" smell disappeared as I replaced bad floor areas.

If the coating on the walls is in good shape there are basic cleaning techniques or recoating for that (from recalling threads -- I haven't done it). Some people have actually taken off the plastic coating (zolatone if your year had it) and polished the interior -- that's a big job. The interior wall aluminum is structural and can't be removed without plans to replace it. It fills a role in the stiffening of the monocoque body.
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Old 10-27-2005, 08:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig T
I am approaching the replacement of the inner skins and would like to source an insulation tape that can be applied to the formers to minimize heat transfer between the inner and outer skins. Our '59 Traveler suffers greatly in this area - especially the main structural formers. Any recommendations?

Thanks,

Craig

Craig, I am trying strips of cork underlayment as a spacer - I cut it with a utility knife and a ruler to about 5/8" strips and then use spray adhesive to temporarily attach it to the rib before rivetting the inner skin over the top. I am putting in wood and am not sure how the spacer would work with aluminum, but it might be worth trying a small area to see how much the skin deforms into the spacer when you rivet... It seems to be working well for me - though I am only about 25% done. The cork is about 3/16 inch and I found it in a 4' roll at ace hardware. Foam tape might work but is so expensive...

Carlos Ferguson
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:36 AM   #6
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Carlos,
After quite a bit of research on the 3M site I bit the bullet and bought a medium density foam tape that was temp resistant (1/16"). I'm this far into the project so whats another $125? . I'm pleased with the
reduction in heat transfer. The skin does not deform at the rivets.

With a wood skinned interior I would not expect the same heat transfer problem. Perhaps to protect the finish at the ribs?

Craig
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:49 PM   #7
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since I have to remove all the interior to replace the floor, now is the time
to replace wiring and insulation in wall or not? or is insulation still good. what happens if it gets wet. Is there better insulation.
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Old 10-27-2005, 10:20 PM   #8
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as for an insulating tape to reduce transfer, the factory now uses this between the outer skin and ribbing so contact the factory and they can likely provide or suggest the tested product. it would be less effective but still helpful on the inner skin.

for insulation, yes the original fiberglass can be reused... if it smells ok and now signs of moisture issues. it's also inexpensive to replace it or spot fill areas as needed....with only 2 inches of space increasing r value is limited, but on older trailer there will likely be areas with gaps settling and so on.

there are threads here about using foil/bubble/foil and the issues associated with it. the factory is now using foil exclusively under the flooring but the pink stuff in the walls.

i'm still not sure what goes in the slides and their is the legend/rumor that you can special order foil for a complete trailer...i asked about this last time there and no one else had heard of this option...but who knows about the future.

cheers
2air'
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Old 10-27-2005, 10:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jcferguson
Craig, I am trying strips of cork underlayment as a spacer - I cut it with a utility knife and a ruler to about 5/8" strips and then use spray adhesive to temporarily attach it to the rib before rivetting the inner skin over the top. I am putting in wood and am not sure how the spacer would work with aluminum, but it might be worth trying a small area to see how much the skin deforms into the spacer when you rivet... It seems to be working well for me - though I am only about 25% done. The cork is about 3/16 inch and I found it in a 4' roll at ace hardware. Foam tape might work but is so expensive...

Carlos Ferguson
Carlos,

The cork underlayment sounds like a good idea. I suppose that the foam type of floor underlayment might also work fairly well. It occurs to me too that you can buy thin foam in a roll that is about 6" wide and is called sill sealer. It is used on top of a concrete foundation wall and underneath the mudsill board. I have had pretty good results using a little liquid nails adhesive to hold things temporarily to the aluminum to but I like the idea of spray adhesive too.

On another note did I read your correctly that you are using wood as your inner skin instead of aluminum? If so you might want to re think that. A lot of things have been written here on the forums about the inner aluminum skin being important to the structural integrity.

Malcolm
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Old 10-27-2005, 11:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by malconium
Carlos,

On another note did I read your correctly that you are using wood as your inner skin instead of aluminum? If so you might want to re think that. A lot of things have been written here on the forums about the inner aluminum skin being important to the structural integrity.

Malcolm
Malcolm

This is off topic to the original post - but...

I've thought a lot about the interior skin - and read many suggestions that it not be omitted - I certainly can't say I haven't been warned. I understand that there is a structural function to the internal skin.

My reasoning:

The material I am using for inner skins is quite structural - baltic birch ply - 1/8" 3 ply with no voids, good wood throughout. My feeling is that this material is strong enough structurally to take the place of the aluminum rather than just be used as an overlay.

I haven't yet weighed the material to see how much it will add or subtract from the overall weight (I think it will add a bit) but I would rather not double the skins and probably more than double that weight.

If indeed the material is up to the task in terms of shearing strength, my concerns are protecting the wood against moisture and keeping the rivets tight after lots of vibration. To this end I have triple coated the backside of the wood with poly and will triple coat the inside as well. I also plan on increasing the number of rivets. On the endcaps (you can see pictures on my thread 1962 22' Safari) I riveted every 2.5 inches, I think I will do the same throughout. I think the rivets are the weak part (they seem to be the part that pops when structural problems happen with the frame at any rate). As far as moisture goes - I see more problems with water getting trapped between an aluminum and wood double skin -- with my single wood skin and the air gap I have in there (between the wood and the foil bubble) things might be able to dry if they do get wet. My spacers should help with the condensation that happens on the ribs - though the wood will do a good job with a thermal break.

When I visited the airstream factory recently I noticed they use very few (very!) internal rivets compared to the number I found in my trailer. I wonder about this...

Last - I am thinking I will be a guinea pig here, try this out, and keep my interior skins until I have a feel that this wasn't a half brained move... I'll report as I get further along.

Thanks for your help re foil bubble methods by the way, I am happy with the technique you described.

Carlos
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