Framing out 60x80 bed

[LI Pets]

I have 1" square tubing to use on the deck of this bed frame.

I want to use as thin a layer of plywood as I can, I'm planning on running the tubing across the 60" width.

What spacing do you think I can use with what thickness plywood?

[overlander63]

Probably a tube across every 20", and one down the center, with 3/8" plywood would suffice.

[bobkelly]

Bob---Reading your post, sounds like your objective is to have the lightest combined weight of frame and plywood top cover consistent with minimum sag/deflection of the top cover and still achieve a good nights sleep. The amount of allowable sag varies by the individual comfort level.

If you have plywood around the house in different thicknesses, then consider running a little test. If you don't have the steel tubing yet, use any scrap lumber to represent the frame, make several cross supports from material of the same thickness as the outer frame, and then put the test sheet on top, lay down and check for sag. Increase the spacing of the cross members until sag becomes too much(probably a fraction of one inch).

If you want to skip the testing part and knowing that sleeping well is more important than saving a couple more pounds of trailer weight, consider putting cross members 12 inches apart with 1/2 inch plywood that has been anchored to the frame and cross members with screws.

Good luck and let us know what works for you.

[LI Pets]

Thanks, I did try a few layouts with 1/4" over 12" spacing and that was flexing too much.

So it appears that 3/8" may work, now 20" on center was suggested by Overlander.

I can try a few different spacings, I didn't have a piece of 3/8's to test out today.

I was hoping to hear from someone with actual experience, it also changes I think when you add the foam.

[overlander63]

Foam cushions the load, but doesn't spread it very much.

[guy99]

When the fellow who did our remodel made the platform for our bed (72x74) he used Torsion Box construction. Here's an example:



The platform for our bed is approx. 1.5 inches thick and the 'skins' of the torsion box are 1/4" Plywood

[empresley]

I used 3/4" x 1" fir for outside frame, filled in the center with two layers of 1/2" foam sheeting (kind used for home construction / comes in 4x8 and 4x10 sheets). Covered top and bottom with 1/4" luaun. If the luaun is fresh from the mill (some use formaldehyde in processing), let it rest on an edge and off-gas for a couple of days. When glued and nailed the panels are really strong. On the top side we finished off with gluing down the ribbed exterior carpet. I have some photos of panels and support framing I will post later.

[LI Pets]

I like these two ideas, the torsion box and the foam core.

Love to see pic's

[doorgunner]

You fail to indicate the load to be applied to the frame. Heavy load, wide load, concentrated load or bouncy load. Just a few things to consider! sleep well

[Happycampers]

Hello All.. Would be very interested in seeing some pics as we are changing our rear twin to sideways queen.. We toured some new airstreams yesterday and did some measurements..

[swebster]

The "factory" east-west queen bed in our motorhome was made of about eight 1 x 2" aluminum box sections running width-wise. They attached with screws to the bed pedastal. It was then skinned with 1/4" luan ply. Very lightweight construction, but it was in there and working fine for 20 years.

[Bob Thompson]

You may want to check out the photo's of the pedestal I made for our bed in our 25' Excella. http://www.airforums.com/photo...00&userid=3264

One thing you should consider is toe space underneath the platform at the perimeter. Usually, there's not a lot of extra space around the pedestal so toespace is critical for getting around.

On my pedestal, I set the vertical supports back 5" from the edge. This does two things, it provides toespace and it locates the support closer to being directly under the load, me and my wife. The cantilevered 1/2" cabinet grade plywood deck is plenty strong enough to cantilever 5" as well as reduce sag between the outside and center supports, even with my 240 lb. body and a good mattress on it. The center support is close enough to the outside supports to minimize deflection in the plywood deck. There is also a vertical support forming the enclosure for the outside storage access door, and this support is strategically located to help support the plywood deck directly under the body torso area when sleeping. Deflection of the plywood deck is minimal and not noticable.

The whole design has worked great and shows no sign of weakness after 3 years and many miles. The pedestal was made from OEM components used for the original twin beds.

[Dovetail]

Bob,
The torsion box picture got me to thinking. Great idea, but a lot of work.
How about using a hollow core lauan door or doors? We use them as portable bench tops in my cabinetmaking business. The strength to weight ratio beats any piece of plywood, and they're less likely to twist or warp.
They have a corrugated cardboard honeycomb core and solid edges, come in a variety of sizes and are easily modified.
They're inexpensive and available at Home Depot etc.
We usually add a piece of high pressure laminate (Formica) to one side for durability.
Just an idea, but the more I think about it... the more I like it!
Jeff

[Happycampers]

Bob .. Great design.. that is what we have planned for the Argosy.. just wanted to know if you used the mattress with the rounded ends.. we have shortened up the triple closet to a large double so we have the walk around for the short queen.. we were thinking of doing this like the bed in our 5th wheel .. it just lifts with pistons...

[Bob Thompson]

Hi Jeff, the hollow core door idea is interesting but it does have a couple problems. Usually the corners of mattresses are rounded and with the doors you would have a door corner sticking out under the corner of the mattress. This would become a knee knocker. Also, at the headboard wall, whatever fits against the wall would likely have to be trimmed to follow the wall curve. Again, the hollow core door would be difficult to trim and would then have to have blocking added to the edges to tie the door faces back together so the door could be edge supported at the wall.

Although it seems like such a small thing, height is important. To comfortably get in and out of bed and to have room under wall cabinets, you want the bed platform to as low as practical. Saving an inch of height by using 1/2" plywood in lieu of 1-3/8" Hollow Core door will help. In our case the height of the platform is set by the height of the water heater under the head/pillow area. I set the platform height so it would just clear the water heater.

With supports similarly placed to mine, the 1/2" plywood is more than adequate.

[Bob Thompson]

Hi Happycampers, the mattress we use was purchased from Prestige Mattress in Phoeniz, Az. The rounded corners are what is typical for home mattresses. This one just happens to be a shortened version for RV's, but otherwise the same "home" style construction.

[empresley]

Here are the photos.
Process:
Used the front panel from one twin assembly to make the new front. Allowed reuse of the storage compartments and reduced what I had to construct.

Used 1x2 alum. tubing laminated to 2x2 spruce with bolts for the spanning the space. 2x2 vertical pieces mounted to the floor provide load bearing.

As stated in the previous post; panels are framed with 1x2 fir, 2 layers rigid insulation sheeting sandwiched between 1/4 luaun. Very light, very strong.

Large center panel is hinged to a small rear panel for access to storage.

Carpet (from Lowe's) was glued to luaun using carpet adhesive.

Not shown: we are using a double size mattress. Queen did not fit this space as well and was not necessary for us personally.

Panels installed photos are at:
http://www.airforums.com/photo...0&userid=14471

[LI Pets]

That's similar to my install so far.

I am trying to keep it as light as possible, the doors don't cut well, so I'll pass on that idea.

The foam between two layers of 1/4" birch may work.

I think I will let it extend about 3-4 inches for the toes

If I take the first piece and fit it in and rivet in place.

Next frame out the edges with poplar, it is very light.

Glue and fit in the foam say 1" thick.

Then glue on the other 1/4" on top.

Clear coat and done........................I think?


Two questions remain the distance between the alum frame supports

What kind of glue works? What about Liquid Nails or construction glue.

[empresley]

The foam between two layers of 1/4" birch may work.

I think I will let it extend about 3-4 inches for the toes.

If I take the first piece and fit it in and rivet in place.

Next frame out the edges with poplar, it is very light.

Glue and fit in the foam say 1" thick.

Then glue on the other 1/4" on top.

Clear coat and done........................I think?

What kind of glue works? What about Liquid Nails or construction glue.
What about spacing?

• The Styrofoam is light. Readily available and has one purpose; keep the panel from crushing. I wanted a panel with at least 1.5” thickness so that it would accept a nice piece of trim across the front. The trim is not there in the photo.
• Our toes aren’t that long. We have the standard mattress perpendicular to the trailer. I wanted to maintain a small aisle across the front to access the storage panels left and right. We experimented with Queen vs. Standard. Queen would have been nice but the width and length of the area made the standard double work for us. We're kinda small and sleep in a knot anyway.
• Of the four panels I only secured the small one (center rear). The large panel is trapped on each side and hinged to the rear. Left and right panels are trapped and held down by mattress and bedding.
• Anything that is straight and easy to work with will be fine. I had the fir left over from another project and ripped it down from 1.5 to 1” to match the thickness of the foam.
• I cut the foam on the table saw to fit tight. Just dropped it in place, no glue.
• Used lots of wood glue and air nailer to “brad” the ¼” plywd. to the frame.
• The luaun is already dark. I covered with carpet to provide a softer feel to the platform. No finish applied to the bottom side.
• Elmer’s yellow wood glue on the frame and a quart pail of carpet glue purchased with the carpet was easy to trowel on. I covered the entire panel and then laid on the carpet. Staples added to the edges to keep the carpet from rolling up.
• The spacing is 22" for the two center beams. 14" for the next and then 16" to the wall.
• I had the 1x2 Thick wall alum. tubing from another project. On short spans my 165lbs won't make it deflect. I added the 2x2 pieces to make it easier to add the vertical pieces going down to the floor.
• You could use all 2x2 and just add more vertical supports. What you don't see is the original cabinet from the twin bed has 1x4 pieces on the back side going to the floor to help with the load bearing.
• Unless you are going to get really jumping up and down excited this arrangement is over-engineered. The mattress is going to help distribute your weight across the panels.

[malconium]

I definitely second the idea of using hollow core doors. Interestingly a queen size bed is 60" x 80" and a very common door size is 30" x 80". That means that two doors side by side would be the perfect size with no cutting. Depending on what you intend to do with the space under the bed you very likely could do just fine with a 1x2 (or 2x2) strip lengthwise down the center with 2 or three vertical support legs. The 1x2 could attach to both doors to hold them together. Alternately about two cross members would be fine for the doors depending on how stiff they are. Again a vertical post in the middle of each cross member would be fine. The point is that the doors themselves do most all of the supporting - it might just be necessary to help a tiny bit in the middle. I also think that if you attached the doors to each other with bisquets or dowels and glue that you might very well be able to get away with no center support. If you tried that an it did no seem stiff enough all you would have to do would be to add one or two feet in the middle. Consider using screw on metal plates and standard furniture legs (available at both Lowesa and Home Depot).

I suggest that you try to find hollow core doors where the frame rails around the sides are real wood rather than particle board. That will make them a bit lighter and maybe a bit stronger too. I noticed that some hollow core doors I recently used to make a toy cabinet with actually had a thin layer of particle board under the real wood skin too.

For my installation I have some thoughts about fixing the top of the bed so that it will lift up to provide access to the area underneath for storage. You could perhaps attach the two doors to each other with hinges so that each side could open independent of the other side. That way the fact that the bed platform is in two pieces would seem entirely intentional.

As far as the need for rounding off corners - as long as the radius is not too large you should be able to trim the corner of a door and still be within the range of the wood fillers around the edges. It is not actuall all that hard to make a filler piece if you really need to. One thing that I have done in that case is to remove the filler part from the piece I cut off of the door and re-use it in the cut area. It is, after all, the correct thickness.

Malcolm