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Old 11-20-2006, 10:41 AM   #15
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Hi Jeff, the hollow core door idea is interesting but it does have a couple problems. Usually the corners of mattresses are rounded and with the doors you would have a door corner sticking out under the corner of the mattress. This would become a knee knocker. Also, at the headboard wall, whatever fits against the wall would likely have to be trimmed to follow the wall curve. Again, the hollow core door would be difficult to trim and would then have to have blocking added to the edges to tie the door faces back together so the door could be edge supported at the wall.

Although it seems like such a small thing, height is important. To comfortably get in and out of bed and to have room under wall cabinets, you want the bed platform to as low as practical. Saving an inch of height by using 1/2" plywood in lieu of 1-3/8" Hollow Core door will help. In our case the height of the platform is set by the height of the water heater under the head/pillow area. I set the platform height so it would just clear the water heater.

With supports similarly placed to mine, the 1/2" plywood is more than adequate.
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Old 11-20-2006, 10:44 AM   #16
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Hi Happycampers, the mattress we use was purchased from Prestige Mattress in Phoeniz, Az. The rounded corners are what is typical for home mattresses. This one just happens to be a shortened version for RV's, but otherwise the same "home" style construction.
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:17 AM   #17
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Twin to Full / Platform Construction

Here are the photos.
Process:
Used the front panel from one twin assembly to make the new front. Allowed reuse of the storage compartments and reduced what I had to construct.

Used 1x2 alum. tubing laminated to 2x2 spruce with bolts for the spanning the space. 2x2 vertical pieces mounted to the floor provide load bearing.

As stated in the previous post; panels are framed with 1x2 fir, 2 layers rigid insulation sheeting sandwiched between 1/4 luaun. Very light, very strong.

Large center panel is hinged to a small rear panel for access to storage.

Carpet (from Lowe's) was glued to luaun using carpet adhesive.

Not shown: we are using a double size mattress. Queen did not fit this space as well and was not necessary for us personally.

Panels installed photos are at:
http://www.airforums.com/photo...0&userid=14471
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:39 PM   #18
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That's similar to my install so far.

I am trying to keep it as light as possible, the doors don't cut well, so I'll pass on that idea.

The foam between two layers of 1/4" birch may work.

I think I will let it extend about 3-4 inches for the toes

If I take the first piece and fit it in and rivet in place.

Next frame out the edges with poplar, it is very light.

Glue and fit in the foam say 1" thick.

Then glue on the other 1/4" on top.

Clear coat and done........................I think?


Two questions remain the distance between the alum frame supports

What kind of glue works? What about Liquid Nails or construction glue.
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:12 PM   #19
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The foam between two layers of 1/4" birch may work.

I think I will let it extend about 3-4 inches for the toes.

If I take the first piece and fit it in and rivet in place.

Next frame out the edges with poplar, it is very light.

Glue and fit in the foam say 1" thick.

Then glue on the other 1/4" on top.

Clear coat and done........................I think?

What kind of glue works? What about Liquid Nails or construction glue.
What about spacing?
  • The Styrofoam is light. Readily available and has one purpose; keep the panel from crushing. I wanted a panel with at least 1.5” thickness so that it would accept a nice piece of trim across the front. The trim is not there in the photo.
  • Our toes aren’t that long. We have the standard mattress perpendicular to the trailer. I wanted to maintain a small aisle across the front to access the storage panels left and right. We experimented with Queen vs. Standard. Queen would have been nice but the width and length of the area made the standard double work for us. We're kinda small and sleep in a knot anyway.
  • Of the four panels I only secured the small one (center rear). The large panel is trapped on each side and hinged to the rear. Left and right panels are trapped and held down by mattress and bedding.
  • Anything that is straight and easy to work with will be fine. I had the fir left over from another project and ripped it down from 1.5 to 1” to match the thickness of the foam.
  • I cut the foam on the table saw to fit tight. Just dropped it in place, no glue.
  • Used lots of wood glue and air nailer to “brad” the ¼” plywd. to the frame.
  • The luaun is already dark. I covered with carpet to provide a softer feel to the platform. No finish applied to the bottom side.
  • Elmer’s yellow wood glue on the frame and a quart pail of carpet glue purchased with the carpet was easy to trowel on. I covered the entire panel and then laid on the carpet. Staples added to the edges to keep the carpet from rolling up.
  • The spacing is 22" for the two center beams. 14" for the next and then 16" to the wall.
  • I had the 1x2 Thick wall alum. tubing from another project. On short spans my 165lbs won't make it deflect. I added the 2x2 pieces to make it easier to add the vertical pieces going down to the floor.
  • You could use all 2x2 and just add more vertical supports. What you don't see is the original cabinet from the twin bed has 1x4 pieces on the back side going to the floor to help with the load bearing.
  • Unless you are going to get really jumping up and down excited this arrangement is over-engineered. The mattress is going to help distribute your weight across the panels.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:42 PM   #20
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Hollow core doors are the way to go...

I definitely second the idea of using hollow core doors. Interestingly a queen size bed is 60" x 80" and a very common door size is 30" x 80". That means that two doors side by side would be the perfect size with no cutting. Depending on what you intend to do with the space under the bed you very likely could do just fine with a 1x2 (or 2x2) strip lengthwise down the center with 2 or three vertical support legs. The 1x2 could attach to both doors to hold them together. Alternately about two cross members would be fine for the doors depending on how stiff they are. Again a vertical post in the middle of each cross member would be fine. The point is that the doors themselves do most all of the supporting - it might just be necessary to help a tiny bit in the middle. I also think that if you attached the doors to each other with bisquets or dowels and glue that you might very well be able to get away with no center support. If you tried that an it did no seem stiff enough all you would have to do would be to add one or two feet in the middle. Consider using screw on metal plates and standard furniture legs (available at both Lowesa and Home Depot).

I suggest that you try to find hollow core doors where the frame rails around the sides are real wood rather than particle board. That will make them a bit lighter and maybe a bit stronger too. I noticed that some hollow core doors I recently used to make a toy cabinet with actually had a thin layer of particle board under the real wood skin too.

For my installation I have some thoughts about fixing the top of the bed so that it will lift up to provide access to the area underneath for storage. You could perhaps attach the two doors to each other with hinges so that each side could open independent of the other side. That way the fact that the bed platform is in two pieces would seem entirely intentional.

As far as the need for rounding off corners - as long as the radius is not too large you should be able to trim the corner of a door and still be within the range of the wood fillers around the edges. It is not actuall all that hard to make a filler piece if you really need to. One thing that I have done in that case is to remove the filler part from the piece I cut off of the door and re-use it in the cut area. It is, after all, the correct thickness.

Malcolm
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:43 PM   #21
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THe hollow doors would be fine if you had a box top that exact size.

The problem in my trailer is that one rear corner has a large radius, when you cut the door in that deep radius you will have nothing there to support the two luan outside layers.

You would need to make spacer blocks all around that radius edge, to get the wood inside you need to remove the material that's there in order to slip the blocks in. To bevel it into the radius would take a long time.

That' s a lot of work, the doors are going to cost say $30 ea or $60.

OR

Two & 1/2 pieces of luan are $25 the insulation $15 total about $40.

So the cost is the same.

But I think I can do that in an hour, hour & half.

I went to HD yesterday and tried out some different insulation on the floor spaced 16" on center, I finalized on the 3/4". it was stiff enough.

I was going to put it together this morning while the turkey was cooking but it was raining like Noak's ark.
I give it a shot tomorrow.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:07 PM   #22
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twins to full

I converted twins in a 25' Excella to a full. My technique was simpler. First I removed the bedside table. I then cut OSB board to fit across the twins in a side to side direction. Board was flush with the back of the bedroom (had to hinge the board to get it in the bedroom. Board was cut to curve that correponded with the curvature of the trailer.
I then used a piece of 3/8" plywood which I cut into two pieces, finished and screwed it to the area of the twins not covered by the bed. After being finished with trim it almost looked factory! These areas were used for a bedside table at the head of the bed where we placed a lamp and we also had the same area at the side of the bed near the foot.

I later sold this trailer and was able to replace the original configuration of twins in a very short time.
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:08 PM   #23
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final frame install

The first pic is looking aft, I cut a door hatch in the back to have access into the underbed storage.

I divided the space into three compartments, you can see the second outside access on the right in pic #2

The third will be on the left front area which will have a top hatch for access
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:14 PM   #24
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The 1x1 square alum thin wall is 16" on center the birch divider is not supporting the frame, the corner was a first time fooling around with alum for me, kinda like wood with the slots.

The divider seen top to bottom is 1/4" birch, the white piece is a part of one of the old vinyl wall, I like to mix old and new.

The plywood is 3/8", 1x1 L is used on top and bottom secured to floor.
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:23 PM   #25
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I got a little carried away on the corner of the bed frame I mitered out the cherry for the plywood and you can see space for 1/4" cherry to form a rounded corner with the cherry on the whole outside face,
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipets
The 1x1 alum thin wall is 16" on center the birch divider is not supporting the frame, the corner was a first time fooling around with alum for me, kinda like wood with the slots.
Your framework is looking great! I would think that with 16" on center that you might be able to span the distance OK with just a single layer of 1/4" to 3/8" luan plywood.

Of course your foam sandwich would be stiffer. Do you have a source for 1/8" plywood locally? I would bet that it would be enough of a skin for your sandwich and would be 1/2 the weight of two 1/4" skins. Have you decided what kind of glue to use? I was thinking that contact cement of the type that is used for attaching formica counter top laminate might work well but you would for sure have to have everything aligned when you dropped the skin in place.

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Old 11-26-2006, 06:25 PM   #27
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more

Cherry ( still unfinished) replacing the old luan vinyl walls

On the lower right is an outdoor shower
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:31 PM   #28
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Malcolm, thanks, the 1x1 sq tube is really strong and light, while working on it I fell in the center of one of those and it didn't flex much at all, I have the 3/4 styro already, I was going to get 1/4" luan, but your right it can work with less.

HD here has 5.2 mm or 1/4" luan, I think 5.2 is 0.2047 so just a tad thinner. It is only $9.75 a sheet, I need 3.

I don't know where to get thinner yet.
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