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SilverTwink7 · 06-20-2009, 05:05 PM

Hi there,

My Husband and I just purchased a 31' 1973 Sovereign, and have just started scratching the surface in remodeling it. We just inherited 4 acres in NC and are starting out in this trailer until we can build our home. We bought it as is, and as you can see from the pictures below, it's not in the best condition.

I've read on other threads that the first to start with would be the structure, fixing any leaks we may encounter, and fixing the floor. My husband is extremely handy and once we finish gutting the interior, those will be the first items we work on.

One of the many questions I have about redoing the interior is moving the bathroom from the rear to the center of the trailer. I know that it's possible as I've seen floor plans of this year and model with the center bathroom, but cannot find any information about moving it. We want to have the toilet and sink on the street side and the shower on curbside to minimize the space used for the bathroom and maximizing the space for the back bedroom. Would it be hard to move the plumbing? should we do this under the subfloor?

We have not hooked anything up as far as electric or water. I figured we would do that once we pulled the floor up to see where the problems were and fix them like that. Also, the wiring for the electrical elements, that would be under the fiber glass on the interior (saw it on a different thread), is it expensive to replace the fiberglass? (the color is awful on the inside and may just replace to save from sanding and trying to cover it)

Also, we have the original refrigerator, wall oven and all the original Bathroom fixtures (Shower, tub, toilet, cabinets) if anyone is interested in them. Not sure if they work, and they definitely would need to be cleaned out, but we are willing to sell them as we want everything on the inside to be more modern and efficient. Let me know!

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Inland RV Center, In · 06-20-2009, 05:10 PM

The trailer also has a case of rear end separation.

There are modifications that you can do, that are fairly easy, so it doesn't happen again.

Thosemods have been previously posted.

Andy

sd90mac · 06-20-2009, 05:31 PM

Welcome to the forums. All of the information you need can be found on here.

As for moving the bathroom, I really don't know, but someone will chime in with the information.

We have a 74 Soveriegn and almost rebuilt on her. We put many hard hours and funds into her, and nearly have her completed. Take your time and you should be fine.

And yes the inside is rough, but should be doable.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Marie

easyride · 06-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Wow that is some paint job,as long as they used enamel,you should be able to paint over it,if it is latex,you may be better off changing panels.On the center bath ,I think you would have to move the black tank,I`m sure someone will chime in that knows more than me on that model. Dave

SilverTwink7 · 06-20-2009, 06:10 PM

Thanks for replying! I'm extremely excited about this remodel, and look forward to the info about the bathroom. for the paint, it really depends on what we find when we pull off the walls to get to the wiring. I will definitely post more pictures as we get further into the remodel!

bilby05 · 06-20-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The trailer also has a case of rear end separation.

There are modifications that you can do, that are fairly easy, so it doesn't happen again.

Thosemods have been previously posted.

Andy

Hello Andy,
Which thread has the best description of the best modifications to repair the rear end separation? I have done a search. Can never find anything when I do that. Guess I am doing something wrong there. Too many words, not enough words? I had to replace the rear bumper, got rear ended just enough to bend the bumper, so I thought I would look into making the repair while I have the bumper off.
Thanks, bill b.

PizzaChop · 06-20-2009, 08:30 PM

Bill b,

I have a few pictures in my photos of a couple of repairs..a '72 Overlander (rear bath) and a '73 Sovereign (center bath). Bumper removal is a pretty minor portion of the repair. To do it right requires removal of the lower interior walls (and all furniture in the way) and will usually involve floor replacement as well as frame restoration while you're at it.

Not quite a one weekend job, unfortunately but doable if patient and somewhat deranged.

SilverTwink: As for moving the bathroom, it will really be more trouble than it is worth, although anything can be done if you're willing to spend enough time and money. (Even your roof plumbing vents will be in different places .) I would restore what you have and keep the bathroom in place.

I have pictures of the wrap around dinette (as well as the plans) in my photos as well.

SilverTwink7 · 06-20-2009, 09:35 PM

Pizza: Thanks for the advice, but we are planning on making this our residence for a while until we can build our house. It's either this or live with my mother-in-law... so we need to have a bed that we can both sleep in, not the twin beds in the hallway or a conversion bed in the front.

any help with this project, things we might need to know, things we wouldn't think about, would be great!! THANKS!!

overlander63 · 06-20-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTwink7

Pizza: Thanks for the advice, but we are planning on making this our residence for a while until we can build our house. It's either this or live with my mother-in-law... so we need to have a bed that we can both sleep in, not the twin beds in the hallway or a conversion bed in the front.

any help with this project, things we might need to know, things we wouldn't think about, would be great!! THANKS!!

Rather than moving everything around, you can simply get a piece of plywood, slide it under one of the mattresses, and at bedtime, slide the plywood and mattress over against the other mattress. In the morning, slide it back. Trust me when I say that's a lot easier than replumbing the trailer for a center bath.

mello mike · 06-21-2009, 06:27 AM

I researched this very topic after I bought my Sovereign in 2004. Believe me when I say you are better off just buying a side bathroom model rather than moving your bathroom from the rear to the side. Black tank location, plumbing, and venting all have to be considered.

SilverTwink7 · 06-21-2009, 06:51 AM

Thank you for your concern, really! But I will not settle with a rear bath for the next two years, and converting twins to a king every night and then undoing the setup every day makes me want to cringe...

Mello Mike: what did you find in your search? We are willing to put in whatever man hours and money this will take to make this conversion. We have to basically pull the entire thing apart anyway to fix any plumbing/wiring/duct/suspension problems that are present, and putting it back together in a way that will suit our needs better then it is now is what we are planning on doing. You say Black tank location would need to be relocated.. what about the grey tank? we're new to this, so be gentle..

SilverTwink7 · 06-21-2009, 07:26 AM

In looking through videos on the web, I've found this one in particular, which is the same exact airstream that we have, and they did almost exactly what I want to do, minus installing the shower on the curbside. Unfortunately, this couple speaks German, and I can't communicate with them. Can anyone help me dissect this video, and give me a clue about what I need to do?

THANKS!!

Airstream restoration - Airstream Life

wahoonc · 06-21-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTwink7

Thank you for your concern, really! But I will not settle with a rear bath for the next two years, and converting twins to a king every night and then undoing the setup every day makes me want to cringe...

Mello Mike: what did you find in your search? We are willing to put in whatever man hours and money this will take to make this conversion. We have to basically pull the entire thing apart anyway to fix any plumbing/wiring/duct/suspension problems that are present, and putting it back together in a way that will suit our needs better then it is now is what we are planning on doing. You say Black tank location would need to be relocated.. what about the grey tank? we're new to this, so be gentle..

You don't have a grey tank on the 73, so you get to add the fun of the additional plumbing and locating of that too. It can be done, but it will be expensive (in terms of parts and time) Do you have plumbing plans and floor plans for the rear bath and the center bath? It will give you an idea of what has to be relocated. FWIW I do have an 80 that I will be doing something similar on, but it is going to be full custom...if I ever get my 75 completed.

It would probably be easier and less expensive to start with an already configured center bath that has the grey tank, but nothing wrong with doing a conversion. You will also probably end up having to add or move windows...more fun.

Aaron

Aerowood · 06-21-2009, 08:04 AM

I am currently doing a side from rear bath change. There's no point in trying to save any of the plumbing as it will all have to be redone. New black tank, new gray tanks, basically new everything. Its not a little job but it is doable with time, money and patience. My change is to a wet bath as I only have a 21 ft GT.

SilverTwink7 · 06-21-2009, 08:22 AM

Thanks Wahoo! Anything can be done once you put your mind to it!

I just finished reading about the three tanks (Black, Grey and Clear). Thanks for letting us know that we don't currently have one on this model. We live in Philadelphia, and the trailer is in NC, so we are doing as much research as we can before we trek down there again for more repairs. On our next trip, we will be ripping out the bathroom, the floors and the walls to get to the appropriate fixes we need to do. We do not have floor plans for the side bath or the rear bath, if you have something that would give us a clue as to where things need to go, would you be so kind as to email them to me or direct me to where to purchase them? I've already contacted airstream to try to obtain the owners manual and service manual. i think that would help alot.

Aerowood: Anything we should be aware of that you've encountered that may save us time or money? Since we haven't really gotten into the belly of this beast, there are things that we are unsure of, like which way the beams run, if the plumbing should be under the floor or above.. things like that.

I'm learning so much!!! YEY!

Minno · 06-21-2009, 08:41 AM

We're with you! We're moving our rear bath in Little Girl (72 Soveriegn) to a center bath/rear bedroom plan. As noted already, all the plumbing associated with the bathroom (and basically the rest of the trailer) will need to be redone. New black tank or move the black tank if it's in good condition, new grey tank, new waste plumbing, and new vents are all part of the equation. Not to mention new fresh water, and probably moving the hot water heater. But we feel it's all worth the work and money so we end up with the trailer we really want.

It'll be interesting to compare notes as we both make progress. Our thread is: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f185...urb-50967.html if you want to keep an eye on our progress. We're still in the early repair phase - making her weather tight before we rip out the floor. We still have many, many, not completely answered planning and layout questions in our heads, but once we get the belly pan off and floor out, we'll be able to see exactly how much room we have for the tanks, and that will help guide us in the design.

Time, patience, and money will get you exactly what you want! So, keep at it and have fun! Lot's of hard work, but totally fun work in our opinions.

Chris & Kay

wahoonc · 06-21-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTwink7

Thanks Wahoo! Anything can be done once you put your mind to it!

I just finished reading about the three tanks (Black, Grey and Clear). Thanks for letting us know that we don't currently have one on this model. We live in Philadelphia, and the trailer is in NC, so we are doing as much research as we can before we trek down there again for more repairs. On our next trip, we will be ripping out the bathroom, the floors and the walls to get to the appropriate fixes we need to do. We do not have floor plans for the side bath or the rear bath, if you have something that would give us a clue as to where things need to go, would you be so kind as to email them to me or direct me to where to purchase them? I've already contacted airstream to try to obtain the owners manual and service manual. i think that would help alot.

Aerowood: Anything we should be aware of that you've encountered that may save us time or money? Since we haven't really gotten into the belly of this beast, there are things that we are unsure of, like which way the beams run, if the plumbing should be under the floor or above.. things like that.

I'm learning so much!!! YEY!

What part of NC? I live near Fort Bragg, but am currently working in Iowa

I don't have a copy of my manual where I can get at it, but when I get home in September I will

My 75 is completely gutted so if any of those pictures will help let me know.

Aaron

Aerowood · 06-21-2009, 09:23 AM

I did not want to make any frame mods in order to install tanks. The blackwater tank sits on top of the floor with a low profile toilet to set on top of that, so pay attention to tank height. I am using 2 ea fresh water tanks for the gray and ganging them together. Pay attention to tank height again, in order to get some slope for drain lines. There are floor splices above every other frame that will burn up 3/4" so beware of that on tank width and when installing floor repairs. The frame height is only 5" so my tanks could be a max height of 4 inches. Another restriction I put upon myself is I only want one hookup to drain everything and I wanted none of it to protrude below the belly skin, as I use a lot of forest service access roads, some better some not so.

You need to outline your goals and base your design on your needs and wallet. Custom Tanks are expensive but I was able to find stock tanks that really brought the price down.

Don't get rid of anything from your current demo until you are absolutely sure that you will no longer need it

overlander63 · 06-21-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverTwink7

In looking through videos on the web, I've found this one in particular, which is the same exact airstream that we have, and they did almost exactly what I want to do, minus installing the shower on the curbside. Unfortunately, this couple speaks German, and I can't communicate with them. Can anyone help me dissect this video, and give me a clue about what I need to do?

THANKS!!

Airstream restoration - Airstream Life

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Link:

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PizzaChop · 06-21-2009, 11:42 AM

I'm pretty sure you'll be needing a new black tank as the rear bath black tank is for below floor and the center bath is above floor (Aero is right that you'll need a low profile commode if you choose to follow the center bath Sovereign layout). It must be vented which will require a new hole in your roof (but you can use the old vent stack for the new vent.)

I have some pics of mine with the center bath removed which may assist you in locating your new bathroom. ( I purchased my '73 Sovereign in NC near Ft Bragg and had quite a bit of frame rust/disintegration to deal with but hopefully you'll fare better than I did. Owning a welder is quite handy when restoring old Airstreams.)

I admire your determination and remember my own eagerness when I began my project(s). It will come in handy.