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Old 04-20-2004, 04:41 PM   #15
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I had a steady stream of ants marching through my trailer for quite some time. All the sprays didn't slow them down a bit. I eventually sprayed all the grass (weeds) under the trailer with some weed killer and then raked out all the dead plant life. Here in Tampa, there was nothing but sand left under there. No more ants, or anything. The only thing that crawls under there now is me working on the frame!
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Old 04-20-2004, 05:30 PM   #16
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Man, I made me a list of things to get and am going to try several. I figure if one form of poison doesn't kill them, maybe the next kind will. It just seems that ants and cockroaches are about the only bugs that have been here since the beginning of time and that nothing ever seems to get rid of the darned things...I am on a mission now folks!! As far as the 'chalk' thing goes, I looked and could not find any here, but will keep looking. When we were in California someone told us to put comet on the ground all around the trailer. We watched the ants to see what they would do and they would not cross the line, but of course the critters inside our trailer weren't phased and munched away on all of our junk food. It was a buffet inside the trailer for them. Wal-mart garden center is going to make a killing off of me tomorrow, so wish me luck!! Thanks so much--good to hear others hate ants as much as I do!!
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:24 AM   #17
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I looked up some information on the chalk that I had always been curious about...here's more, might be a good thing you couldn't find any!

Hazards of Miraculous Insecticide Chalk
Updated September 27, 2001

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) continues to warn the public not to purchase or use an insecticide product sold under various names including "Miraculous Insecticide Chalk," "Pretty Baby Chalk," and "Chinese Chalk."

A package of Miraculous Insecticide Chalk, manufactured by a cosmetics firm in the People's Republic of China, looks like a box of blackboard chalk. The product has been imported into the United States illegally. Between 1992 and 1995, Poison Control Centers nationwide received 668 reports of poisoning incidents involving insecticide chalk. The packaging also contains high levels of lead and other heavy metals, increasing the risk to children.

The chalk is sold illegally for insect control. It is imported illegally from China and other countries, and advertised as effective against roaches, ants, and other household pests when a line of chalk is drawn along the floor or baseboards. Between 1992 and 1995, Poison Control Centers nationwide received 668 reports of poisoning incidents involving insecticide chalk. EPA is cooperating with states and tribes in an effort to stop the sale and use of this hazardous product.

On September 26, 2001, the EPA announced it had 15 businesses in Hawaii, California, Nevada, and Guam for selling illegal naphthalene and paradichlorobenzene mothballs, "insecticidal chalk" and other products, some of which can poison children who may mistake them for toys or food. Selling unregistered products such as these is a violation of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act.

The chalk is sold at swap meets, flea markets, and urban ethnic grocery and hardware stores. In recent months it has been advertised in newspapers and on the Internet. City of Fort Worth Code Compliance officers have found the chalk in abandoned homes.

The product, which children could easily mistake for common blackboard chalk, contains deltamethrin and cypermethrin, a class of insecticides (synthetic pyrethroids) that act on the nervous system. The packaging contains no list of ingredients or consumer warnings. Overexposure can produce serious health effects, including vomiting, stomach pains, convulsions, tremors, coma, and death due to respiratory failure. Serious allergic reactions are also possible.

There are also high levels of lead and other hazardous metals in the product's colorful packaging. Thus, the packaging itself is hazardous to children and adults if they handle the box or place it in their mouth.
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:48 AM   #18
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Yikes!

Sounds like it works too well...

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Old 04-22-2004, 09:46 AM   #19
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Well, I doubt there's anything to be really worried about on the "chalk" issue. the only 'issue' , and reaon that the epa is "warning" about it is that it isn't properly labeled and tested, and therefore breaks us laws. That doesn't give any indication of its relative toxicity.

"Synthetic Pyrethroids" are extremely common, used in all sorts of insecticides, and are among the least toxic chemicals to non-target species. Pyrethrins are derived from the chrysanthemum family...that plant's natural defense against insects. one of Mother Nature's miracles, in that it only affects certain types of insects, without killing the "good" one's, like bee's. (one of the big problems in the pest control biz: how to kill off pest insects or plants, without harming beneficial one's). Other types (organophosphates) don't differentiate..they kill "everything".

the "nerve agent" comment is typical "the sky is falling" crap that is included in every anti-chemical article. yeah, no $h*t its a nerve agent. its poison. don't eat it, dummy.
seriously...yes, these things will do to you and I exactly what they'll do to the bugs...but only in the same proportion, and it only takes a teeny-weenie bit of poison to kill a teeny weenie animal.

Still, though..I wouldn't use whatever this stuff is, because we don't know exactly what it is. that automatically makes it dangerous. but by its description, it sounds like it 'could' be perfectly fine. but only if the manufacturer lists the ingredients and gets a proper label from the gov't.

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(former professional pesticide applicator...)
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:04 AM   #20
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Chuck, are you sure?

I'm not a former professional anything, but every organic publication I have classes pyrethrins as broad-spectrum killers. I'm rabidly organic but occasionally resort to pyrethrins and rotenone because of cucumber beetles but have been cautioned to only apply it at night and only to the soil where the beetles are at that time. My understanding is that, if bees ingest it from a blossom, they'll die too.

My gut feeling is: Anything that finally kills those blasted cuke beetles is going to be pretty dangerous to everything else as well.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:27 AM   #21
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On insectisides, it just seems odd to me that when something works really well and the government doesn't get a kickback from the sales, that it becomes very dangerous--maybe they should quit putting all of those additives and preservatives in our foods that contain carcinogenics and get rid of alot of pollutants instead of worrying so much about all of the pests that are getting into everything and destroying so much!! If they keep cheaper and more non-effective materials on the market, we have to buy more-the bugs build up a tolerance to the stuff and it becomes a cycle. By the way, luckily my kids are 18 and 20, so hopefully they wouldn't eat the chalk--but--huhhhhh teenagers and younger kids--who knows what they will try next!!! I can just see them saying--hey man--let's have a chalk eating party!! EEEKKKK!!! Maybe it is not such a great idea??????????????????
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:28 AM   #22
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well, "pyrethrins" is kind of like saying "chemicals". its a pretty broad category. but as with most things, its all about the dose.

the LD-50 (lethal dose) of pyrethrins to mamals is extremely high, (meaning, you have to ingest a higher amount of the chemical...meaning, its not as poisonous) as compared with other categories of insecticides. there are some types that can be used to treat bee hives for mites, without harming the bees.

the various concoctions consiting of pyrethrins do have many target species. but an interesting tid-bit: I was reading some labels on some cans of "bug spray" while standing in line at the grocery store...(you know how they have seasonal "impulse purchases" near the registers?), and the bug KILLER stuff is less toxic than the insect REPELLANT (deet) that was right next to it on the shelf. Repellant only irritates the bugs...doesn't harm them. but it'll harm you, in a much lower dose than the stuff that actually KILLS bugs.

point is, things are not always as they seem. "organic" publications have an agenda...a target audience, and will spin things toward that group.

here's a web site that you should check out, if you're concerned about chemicals. http://www.dhmo.org

nasty stuff....scares me to death!
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:42 AM   #23
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I do still buy it and use it. I wear gloves and a mask, wash vigorously after, and keep my daughter away from it. The cats don't go around licking chalk, they don't even bother to go after any mice we have. I figure it's better than bombing because bombing gets all over everything in a sticky layer, that can't be good. I just don't want to recommend this stuff to someone else without all the info.

It sure does work! They all just disappear!
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:51 AM   #24
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thanks, chuck ...

... i agree about the inconsistency & ignorance of various concoctions that we spray on our crops, bodies & houses. my bugaboo is cleaning solutions. people think that any toxic substance is ok as long as it's in a bottle with a sparkly logo. and chemically treated lawns? toxic waste dumps for children, as far as i'm concerned.

for me, it's partly a "way of life" choice too ... i'd rather understand the rhythms of the earth and the cycles of life than buy a bunch of aerosol cans and expect them to do the dirty work for me.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by InsideOut
Yikes!

Sounds like it works too well...

Shari
Yes, but does it kill ANTS?
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:34 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summerkid
... i agree about the inconsistency & ignorance of various concoctions that we spray on our crops, bodies & houses. my bugaboo is cleaning solutions. people think that any toxic substance is ok as long as it's in a bottle with a sparkly logo. and chemically treated lawns? toxic waste dumps for children, as far as i'm concerned.

for me, it's partly a "way of life" choice too ... i'd rather understand the rhythms of the earth and the cycles of life than buy a bunch of aerosol cans and expect them to do the dirty work for me.
well, you're not going to like this, but....

My commercial pesticide license was for "turf". I was a lawncare tech for many years. "chemically treated lawns" are not toxic waste dumps, by any stretch of the imagination. People who think they are only think they are out of the very same ignorance of which you speak. The biggest concern with the aforementioned pesticide is that it is NOT in a bottle with a sparkly, and government approved lable. so we have no idea WHAT it is.

People are afraid of the materials used in lawncare for similar reasons, though...they don't know what it is, and are easily influenced by the power of suggestion in alarmist media articles that it must be something "bad". well, it isn't a mystery. and it doesn't take much to make grass grow. They do, however, typically treat turfgrass with high amounts of DHMO, which kills way more people every year than all pesticides combined.

check out that site I mentioned. its an eye-opener.
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:12 PM   #27
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Chuck, I thought maybe you had mis-typed DMHO, and I went to the web site to find out why people were using it on their lawns. Hah! You meant what you typed - as soon as I saw the words "Dihydrogen Monoxide", I was onto you, you devil you.
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:33 PM   #28
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Chuck,

Where do I apply for a Superfund Grant to clean up the DHMO reservoir I have in my back yard?

TIA,
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