Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-30-2010, 11:02 AM   #29
2 Rivet Member
 
2009 23' International
Boulder , Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59
So a couple of my take aways:

Use Rock Salt maybe instead of antifreeze as it's very difficult to keep the antifreeze ratios at a point where they function well.

Use the furnace only as supplementing with a space heater only prevents the furnace from working as hard as it should on warming the pipes.

It looks like it's possible to use the gray and black tanks if you have proper protection. (heat pads, rock salt, wind skirts)

One question: Are there really All season airstreams with wired heat pads to the system readout panel? I never saw an option when we were researching 09's

What is everyones experience with driving in snow or ice. I don't think I would attempt it. But what if one is forced to drive on packed snow? I'm guessing the two axel trailers do better. I've seen a tractor trailer jackknife in a bad snow storm once. I'm guessing a counter steer is does little to help.
__________________

__________________
tmarquis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 11:10 AM   #30
Rivet Master
 
noreen&sal's Avatar
 
1981 27' Excella II
mays landing , South Jersey
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,179
Images: 9
Rock salt idea sounds good. Drove tractor trailer 35 yrs. in all kinds of weather. Am retired now and hope to never have to drive in winter conditions. Sal.
__________________

__________________
noreen&sal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #31
65th Anniversary CLIPPER
 
masseyfarm's Avatar

 
1996 36' Clipper Bus
Tub City , British Columbia
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,273
Images: 55
Freeze

Quote:
Originally Posted by noreen View Post
Rock salt idea sounds good. Drove tractor trailer 35 yrs. in all kinds of weather. Am retired now and hope to never have to drive in winter conditions. Sal.


Rock salt if very corrosive to have around any metal, including ALUMINUM.
It is difficult to store without a mess, and dilutes just like any other anti-freeze.
I would stick with the PINK as there is no mess or reaction with the components of the RV.
Rock salt also becomes ineffective at lower temperatures. (the actual temp. can be found on internet search)

As far as RV winter driving goes, you have a shelter with you, stop and wait the weather out. Why risk your rig if it is not absolutly necessary. Having said that, if properly equipped, weight rations are good, and braking system are balanced, you should be able to winter drive any reasonable road. (reasonable is not ski mountain trails.)


The roadway temperature is critical in choosing a deicer with temperatures below 15 degrees Fahrenheit generally requiring addition of other "hotter" deicers to salt (e.g. magnesium chloride, calcium chloride). The phase diagram illustrates the required concentration of salt to keep the brine liquid at various temperatures.





Dave
__________________
masseyfarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 11:48 AM   #32
Rivet Master
 
Dave Park's Avatar
 
2005 22' Safari
Hyde Park Place , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 972
Here is a handy chart!
__________________
TX-16
Dave Park is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 12:06 PM   #33
New Member
 
2006 25' International CCD
Airstream , California
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1
sorry about these dumb questions:

so if you take foiled again's suggestion and just empty all tanks you're good in any weather right? having never emptied tanks before, i assume you just run the sink with black and grey drains open until there is no more water in white tank. is this right? does this damage your sink pump when there comes to be no water running through it? do you have to do anything else to get it totally dry inside the tanks?

with antifreeze in grey and black tanks, are you ok in 20 degree temps? i guess this means the white water tank is disabled as you don't want to put antifreeze in that right?
__________________
stuhueso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 12:09 PM   #34
65th Anniversary CLIPPER
 
masseyfarm's Avatar

 
1996 36' Clipper Bus
Tub City , British Columbia
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,273
Images: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuhueso View Post
sorry about these dumb questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuhueso View Post

so if you take foiled again's suggestion and just empty all tanks you're good in any weather right? having never emptied tanks before, i assume you just run the sink with black and grey drains open until there is no more water in white tank. is this right? does this damage your sink pump when there comes to be no water running through it? do you have to do anything else to get it totally dry inside the tanks?

with antifreeze in grey and black tanks, are you ok in 20 degree temps? i guess this means the white water tank is disabled as you don't want to put antifreeze in that right?

Check other posts re. witerizing on this site.
Blow out all lines and push PINK through if the unit is not to be used.

Full time winter living, Freeze problems
Your trailer may be set up different from my motor home, but my plan for the Clipper is such.

If you are wintering full time at a park with power and full service:
Keep the furnace running even if you use an aux. electric heater. A small fan on low speed will keep air circulating.
In the interest of economy and comfort, use an electric blanket, and a heating pad for the chair.
Purchase a heat tape for the exposed water line and cover and insulate the supply valve. That is for the parks water tap as, in severe weather, you should just fill you water tank and store your hose. Fill your water storage tank direct and not thru the hose for pressure supply. This should be winterized as it is to exposed to the weather and will freeze. (on the Clipper this hose is not in the heated area, and unless you supply some type of heat - tape etc. it is a problem.) At times the park water may be unavailable because of problems beyond your control. Keep at least 3 gal plastic jugs of drinking water available.
Dump and drain completely the waste water line only when needed. Keep a new waste hose in storage as the current frozen one will break with any excess movement.
Use Reflectix Double Bubble to insulate windows you don't need to look out of, eg. bedroom. Also in the skylights and use velcro on the vent covers and remove when necessary. (cooking/showers)
Use regular bubble wrap in the kitchen and living room windows that supply light to the living area.
Try to keep the moisture level down, by using the microwave rather than the gas stove.

Cold weather is a challenge whether parked or travelling. Know your unit and carry and use RV antifreeze liberally in the waste water to keep the dump outlets from freezing solid.

Dave
__________________
masseyfarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 04:38 PM   #35
Rivet Master
 
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Davenport , Iowa
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,458
Blog Entries: 1
for the mid night run, there is a product called "Caremate" (marketed by Sunrise Medical)that is available thru medical home care companies. The product is used in the bedside commodes to eliminate smell and spillage. By spillage I mead that there is a chemical in a plastic bag that solidifies liquid and dissolves the solid part. The bag has 2 handles that come together and form a seal to than be disposed of. These actually fit inside the commode pail. I carry one in the truck for roadside emergencies.
As for the black and grey tanks, since they are NOT potable water, why can't one use auto antifreeze in them? Use a gallon in each for the winter and than flush as needed. Again it would be safer than salt and is anti-carrosive(?) on Al.
__________________
Airtandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 05:19 PM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
Stu',

The water pump will run dry. There's a drain under the fresh water tank plus drains for the water lines. Check your owner's manual for winterizing for this info. Some have a drain near and under the hot water heater that may not be mentioned in the owner's manual.

Tmarquis,

Some trailers come with heat strips to keep the tanks warm. These can only be used with 120 v. shore power since they would run the batteries down very fast. You either have heat strips or ducts to the tanks from the furnace, not both.

It has been posted somewhere that the furnace duct primarily heats the fresh water tank and isn't so good for the others. I don't know if this is true, but would like to know.

The freezing point of the black tank contents may be lower than fresh water, but I wouldn't count on it making a lot of difference. I think once you get into the teens and below, freezing is a danger as these trailers aren't designed for winter use. Some people do it—lowest we've been in is around 15˚ and nothing bad happened.

A light bulb or two under the tanks can help keep them warmer and prevent them from refreezing extra hard every night. You won't know about leaks until it gets warm enough to leak and then you'll have to test the plumbing for them.

Driving on snow can be a challenge. We have snow tires on the trailer, but haven't needed them. Before we had the snow tires, we did drive about 40 miles down I-70 on slick snow with a nasty crosswind and had no problems. Then it turned to heavy rain (for the next 2 days). Tractor trailers were stuck in the right lane. This was in the plains and driving in the mountains would be interesting. There are threads on winter driving and they feature many disagreements about the best way to drive and how to set the brake controller.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 09:24 PM   #37
Rivet Master
 
bolerama's Avatar
 
Saskatoon , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 754
Images: 30
Blog Entries: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolerama View Post
I have a 2008 23ft Int. In my owners manual section titled Winter Traveling on pg C-7 states " The furnace supplies heat to the water lines and tanks on all models except the 22ft. It has 12-v heat pads for the tanks. These pads are individually switched with the switch located next to the monitor panel." Arent these pads supposed to prevent tank freeze ups (especially with RV antifreeze)? TMarquis I'm assuming your 23 ft Int is the same as my 2008. My warranty info has a the warranty card for these heat pads., but I dont have these switches. I just assumed they thermostatically turned on when needed. Any know more about these heat pads and switches?

Paul
Sorry People. I jumped the gun a bit. I emailed my contact at Airstream and he pointed out the line in the manual "The furnace supplies heat to the water lines and tanks on all models except the 22ft. It has 12-v heat pads for the tanks". I should have read it closer.

Sorry about that..

Paul
__________________
Lisa and Paul

2008 23' Int. CCD "The Atomic Pod" https://atomicpod.wordpress.com
2002 Chinook Destiny | 1973 13' Boler (fiberglass egg) "The Boiler"
WBCCI #23223 (=23 CCD)
bolerama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 10:11 PM   #38
Rivet Master
 
InsideOut's Avatar

 
1956 22' Safari
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,793
Images: 108
One more thing to be aware of while winter camping is the "road salt" (or whatever it is). It is very corrosive to aluminum, so wash it off immediately with soapy water. During our restoration, we replaced the long streetside panel on our Safari with a new Alclad panel. It wasn't yet polished or waxed. We went out in October last year and got caught in a little snow storm - enough that they did whatever they do to the roads (I-25) here in CO. We hosed the trailer down after we got home, but didn't use any sponge or soap.

When we went to polish in the spring, it was a mess. It took lots of extra time to polish out all the etched salt spots, which was a shame on a brand new panel. I think if the panel had been older and oxidized it may not have affected it as much - but the fact that it was new & without any coating made it react. The older panels that had 50+ years of oxidization didn't have the same kind of problem. It was the same kind of aluminum - just newer and not oxidized vs old and oxidized which is a sort of protective coating.

Of course, with newer trailers that have clearcoat, they are somewhat protected - but any compromise in the clearcoat allows that salt to get a foothold. We have decided to forgo true "winter camping" in our A/S rather than go through that again.

Have you ever put table salt and a little moisture on Reynolds wrap? It eats it up.

Shari
__________________
Vintage Airstream Club - Past President 2007/2008
WBCCI #1824 - DenCO Unit Past President (2005)
AIR #30 - Join Date: 2-25-2002

RMVAC | WBCCI DenCO Unit | Sisters on the Fly | Tin Can Tourists
BIRDY - our 1956 Safari | 1964 Serro Scotty
InsideOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 10:27 PM   #39
65th Anniversary CLIPPER
 
masseyfarm's Avatar

 
1996 36' Clipper Bus
Tub City , British Columbia
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,273
Images: 55
RV vs Auto Antifreeze

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airtandem View Post
for the mid night run, there is a product called "Caremate" (marketed by Sunrise Medical)that is available thru medical home care companies. The product is used in the bedside commodes to eliminate smell and spillage. By spillage I mead that there is a chemical in a plastic bag that solidifies liquid and dissolves the solid part. The bag has 2 handles that come together and form a seal to than be disposed of. These actually fit inside the commode pail. I carry one in the truck for roadside emergencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airtandem View Post
As for the black and grey tanks, since they are NOT potable water, why can't one use auto antifreeze in them? Use a gallon in each for the winter and than flush as needed. Again it would be safer than salt and is anti-carrosive(?) on Al.
I like the info on the Ceremate and will look for it.

But ---- NO NO NO NO

Auto antifreeze is poisonious and a controlled hazard here in Canada and should be also where you are.
Is the Disposal of Used Antifreeze Regulated?
http://www.greentruck.com/waste/antifreeze/1102.html

"Currently, there are no federal requirements for the management and disposal of used antifreeze. EPA has not made a determination whether waste antifreeze is a hazardous waste. Regardless, most States have regulations for the management and disposal of waste antifreeze, regardless of whether it is a hazardous waste. Used antifreeze has the potential to be a hazardous waste due to its potentially high pH or its potential to have a high lead content."


All auto antifreeze needs to be recycled and not dumped in septic systems or municipal sewer systems or on the ground.
Any spillage endangers the life of all pets and wildlife that may be exposed to the attractive sweet smell and taste.
RV antifreeze is safe and does not cause any problems other than lightning your wallet.
Safety first.
Dave
PS This is one of the reasons many RV dumps in small towns and remote areas are locked and name and address/signature is required to dump. When they get their tank pumped, the vacume truck operator is required to test for non organic substance. In some areas this product ends up on agricultural lands.
__________________
masseyfarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 06:41 AM   #40
4 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
saline , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 408
I am thinking the portable electric heater is working against you when you camp below freezing. The furnace needs to run to keep the lines and tanks from freezing. With that electric heater keeping the inside warm, the furnace won't come on enough and the electric heat won't do anything for tanks and lines below the floor. In future trips, a small portable toilet that you can buy for about $75.00 would probably work if you decided to keep the trailer dry.
__________________
Kosm1o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 02:46 PM   #41
New Member
 
1968 26' Overlander
Kirkland , Washington
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1
Winter Full time living

When I was living in my RV in Bellevue during a very cold winter the "guys" in the park suggested leaving the valve open on the water tank -mine is 1968 with only a black tank - so that everything drains out right away. They also stated this was the only time this is a good idea.
__________________
silverditz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 01:58 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
Silver', are your tanks heated? This may not be a good idea with heated tanks because the solids probably will pile up and not drain unless you flush each time with a lot of water, and even that may not work. Because you will have more water flowing through a black tank when you don't have a grey tank, you will flush more, but maybe not enough.

Gene
__________________

__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hitch Set Screw, or is the winter just getting too long? SteveH Hitches, Couplers & Balls 42 03-01-2009 04:13 PM
**Winter Camping** Silvertwinky On The Road... 36 02-09-2005 10:38 AM
Winter Camping ajjohnsons Our Community 5 10-07-2004 08:42 PM
winter camping wheel interested Winter Living 12 11-02-2003 12:30 PM
winter camping murphy Our Community 1 10-27-2002 07:31 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.