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Old 09-13-2018, 03:22 PM   #1
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Post Sport 22 vs. F Cloud 20

I am looking to purchase an AS next summer. Have been doing some research and finally made it to a dealer to look around them. I am trying to decide between the Sport 22 and the Flying Cloud 20. Since I am planning to live out of it in winter, in the mountains, one of my main concerns is cold weather suitability. I know there are things that need to be done with either model. Right now I am leaning toward the Sport because it seems more insulated and durable.

***Which model is best for cold weather living?***

Please vote and follow up with why/recommendations.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:32 PM   #2
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I doubt there’s any difference in the insulation.
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:29 PM   #3
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I doubt there’s any difference in the insulation.
Has to be, there is no A/C ductwork in the ceiling of the sport. Not sure if that is compensated for or not.
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:54 PM   #4
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Winter in an Airstream

I am a firm believer that Airstreams are 3 season trailers. We have a 2017 Int. Serenity 23D. Last November (2017) we spent a week at Cross Creek Campground just north of Columbus, Ohio. Weather took a nosedive on 2nd day and it was under 20 degrees for the rest of our week. Furnace worked great, but VERY thirsty for propane. (2 30lb tanks in 6 days) We filled fresh water tank (and removed hose) as they informed us they were turning off water to all sites. We used Bathhouse for showers and other business because I did not want to fight frozen dump valves. We had to be very careful with moisture buildup. We survived but I sure as heck would not want to spend an entire winter in subfreezing temps in an Airstream. CCCOOOLLLDDD walls. The freshwater did not freeze. Water Heater worked fine for dishwashing. On board water pump worked fine. There are other brands of travel trailers that are much better for cold weather. We will be spending 4 months at Land Yacht Harbor in Melbourne, Fl beginning 1 December, 2018. Cold? No thanks.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:22 PM   #5
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I am a firm believer that Airstreams are 3 season trailers. We have a 2017 Int. Serenity 23D. Last November (2017) we spent a week at Cross Creek Campground just north of Columbus, Ohio. Weather took a nosedive on 2nd day and it was under 20 degrees for the rest of our week. Furnace worked great, but VERY thirsty for propane. (2 30lb tanks in 6 days) We filled fresh water tank (and removed hose) as they informed us they were turning off water to all sites. We used Bathhouse for showers and other business because I did not want to fight frozen dump valves. We had to be very careful with moisture buildup. We survived but I sure as heck would not want to spend an entire winter in subfreezing temps in an Airstream. CCCOOOLLLDDD walls. The freshwater did not freeze. Water Heater worked fine for dishwashing. On board water pump worked fine. There are other brands of travel trailers that are much better for cold weather. We will be spending 4 months at Land Yacht Harbor in Melbourne, Fl beginning 1 December, 2018. Cold? No thanks.
I figured I would need to do something to make it through the winter. I want to start with the better of the two choices as a START. Any thoughts between the two?
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:16 PM   #6
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If you look at them as the come factory stock, the 20 is more feature rich in many ways that favor the 20 over the 22 for long term living, especially if running the heat.

2 batteries
larger propane tanks
ducted heat pump as primary heat source for heating with electric when you have hookups.
propane oven option for cooking when you must cook indoors due to cold weather outside
More sophisticated electrical system overall
2 fantastic fans plus range hood plus bathroom vent fan for better moisture management
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:44 PM   #7
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If you look at them as the come factory stock, the 20 is more feature rich in many ways that favor the 20 over the 22 for long term living, especially if running the heat.

2 batteries
larger propane tanks
ducted heat pump as primary heat source for heating with electric when you have hookups.
propane oven option for cooking when you must cook indoors due to cold weather outside
More sophisticated electrical system overall
2 fantastic fans plus range hood plus bathroom vent fan for better moisture management
I considered those listed items. The sport has ducted propane heat and also has a central mounted heat pump, not ducted. I plan on adding bathroom and cooking area vents for moisture control. I will be on electric service for the winter, battery not really an issue, but I am going to add a second one anyway.

I know the oven is a problem, forgot to speak with the dealer about that. Thank you.

I am more concerned with things that cannot reasonably be changed. For example, adding insulation or changing windows out because one model seals better. Or is one more likely to get frozen valves or tanks. I will be skirting it either way.

Thanks!
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:01 PM   #8
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That is not exactly the case. The sport has an AC with heat strip, but not a true heat pump. There is a difference.

If I had to choose one of these 2 models to live in long term it would be the 20. Just a nicer space. Certainly a better and easier to use kitchen.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:23 PM   #9
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That is not exactly the case. The sport has an AC with heat strip, but not a true heat pump. There is a difference.

If I had to choose one of these 2 models to live in long term it would be the 20. Just a nicer space. Certainly a better and easier to use kitchen.
Hmmmm... I must have wrote that down wrong. Thank you.

I like the 20 kitchen better as well, do not like the seating/bed arrangement as much.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:45 PM   #10
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Sounds like you have your heart set on an AS. No argument there, we all have. I do not know anything about the differences between the two units you are considering. I also have not camped in my AS in sub-freezing weather and hope not to. However, should you want to compare AS to what is considered to be a true four season TT, I suggest looking at Outdoors RV Mfg. out of Oregon. When I was TT shopping, I was fortunate in that my AS dealer is 6 miles from my house and a dealer that carried Outdoors RV, 8 miles. DW and I looked at them 3 times and went over them thoroughly. I was impressed and it was the only SOB I considered. Just a thought.
Best of luck with your research.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:51 AM   #11
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Sounds like you have your heart set on an AS. No argument there, we all have. I do not know anything about the differences between the two units you are considering. I also have not camped in my AS in sub-freezing weather and hope not to. However, should you want to compare AS to what is considered to be a true four season TT, I suggest looking at Outdoors RV Mfg. out of Oregon. When I was TT shopping, I was fortunate in that my AS dealer is 6 miles from my house and a dealer that carried Outdoors RV, 8 miles. DW and I looked at them 3 times and went over them thoroughly. I was impressed and it was the only SOB I considered. Just a thought.
Best of luck with your research.
Looking them up now!
Thank you.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:43 AM   #12
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The 22 Sport has:
A bigger bed
A bigger bath
Nearly as much counter space (take a tape measure and compare)
3-way fridge
Easier towing (lighter weight, narrower)


The 20 is more deluxe, has more interior storage, and has a gas range/oven.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:31 AM   #13
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The 22 Sport has:
A bigger bed
A bigger bath
Nearly as much counter space (take a tape measure and compare)
3-way fridge
Easier towing (lighter weight, narrower)


The 20 is more deluxe, has more interior storage, and has a gas range/oven.
I read the brochures and looked around them. I want to know what differences CANNOT be changed that would sway purchase to one or the other. I can cut a hole or wire a new accessory. I cannot make it have more exterior insulation or a different plumbing system.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:59 AM   #14
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Hi

A *lot* depends on just where the winter is happening. If you are down in San Diego, that's a very different climate than up in the Sierras. If snow is happening, any Airstream is a challenge to live in. I'm going to assume we're talking about an area where it's sub freezing for many weeks in the winter ....

The skin of all these trailers is very thin that makes heating *expensive* when it's cold out. Hauling in new propane tanks once or twice a week .... not for me. The windows are not set up for real cold. Moisture from people / cooking in the trailer condenses out on the windows big time. Mopping them off each morning (and maybe each evening) becomes part of the drill. That's done by opening them and working from the outside ..... did I mention heat costs ....

Moisture also condenses on the walls behind the cabinets. That damp can lead to all sorts of nonsense like mold and maybe rot. Keeping cabinet areas dry is possible. You unload them and blow hot air into them on a regular basis .... back to heating costs ....

Next up you have the water systems. They are not designed for constant sub freezing temperatures. Simple answer there is to drain all water, put in anti-freeze and not use any water in the trailer all winter. ..... hmmm .... that does not sound convenient. It's not just a matter of getting water into the trailer. You also need to get it out. Things like dump stations are generally closed in the winter.

Depending on the amount of cold and the amount of wind, the heating system in the trailer may or may not be up to the task. Heat pumps stop working as you get below 40F outside. The furnace in the trailer is all you have when it's really cold. Waking up to 50F each morning may or may not be your idea of fun ....

Airstreams are hardly unique in having these "issues". RV's are rarely designed for really cold weather living. If that is a major requirement, better to shop for one of the few that is targeted at this kind of thing. Fewer windows, thicker walls, and smaller internal dimensions are normally the result. Since they are a small part of the market, simply finding one outside Alaska or places like that can be a challenge.

Lots to think on ....

Bob
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