Is an Airstream the right brand for fulltiming for us?

[switz]

The really large fifth wheels usually require graduating from a ¾ ton diesel that can tow any Airstream to a one ton dually for the extra stability and tongue weight. Usually the pulling power (engine) are identical between the two sizes.

[DHart]

Originally Posted by dkottum

All Airstreams are extremely tiny houses.

So true, Doug. As much as most of us are enamored with our Airstreams, for some people, they require a significant compromise in terms of space and storage, especially for family units of three or more people.

I know that you spend the majority of your time outside your Airstream. Some others, however, tend to spend much time inside their RVs, depending on the seating comfort inside their rigs, climate, environment, health, lifestyle, etc. My wife and I spend a good bit of time doing graphics work while on the road, and doing so while relaxing in the Airstream, in our recliners with laptop computers, makes being on the road comfortable and easy to work. It may surprise some people how much time we do spend inside our Airstream when we travel... but we do so because that is what works for us and because we have chosen a model, and equipped it well, to meet our particular needs.

Also, some folks like to entertain guests inside their RVs, especially when weather or other conditions are not conducive to outdoor socializing (most likely a couple entertaining another couple). Airstreams are not great rigs for such purposes, but other brands and types of RVs (slides figure into this) can be very comfortable for four to six adults enjoying company for an afternoon or an evening.

We love our Airstreams, but even our 30' Serenity, as you say, is "an extremely tiny house."

I feel that the OP's needs would be much better met with an RV with slide-outs, which is larger than an Airstream. Some other brands of trailers, and most 5th wheels, would be surprisingly home-like for three adults to live in together.

Many spacious, well-designed mid-sized 5th wheels can be effectively towed with a 3/4 ton diesel. I towed a 29' fifth wheel with a Ford F-250 with V-10 gas engine for a few years. It worked out well. The largest 5th wheels, as Switz mentions, are best towed with 1-ton duelly pickups.

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Airstream DID make a 34' toyhauler called the Panamerica for a few years. Here's a link to one, which was thoroughly remodeled/upgraded by the 2nd owner. Here's the link. 17 pages of posts, please don't drool on your keyboard while reading.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f503...ot-117702.html

. . .

Paula

Paula, THANK-YOU for that link. It is proving to be very educaitonal, and inspirational.

The Panamerica IS capturing my interest. It would allow us to have the Airstream experience with both our son and my Harley, no problem.

I wonder though if I can really find one, and at a price we can handle. Airstream apparently made so few of them. I really, really like it though.

Jim G

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by switz

The really large fifth wheels usually require graduating from a ¾ ton diesel that can tow any Airstream to a one ton dually for the extra stability and tongue weight. Usually the pulling power (engine) are identical between the two sizes.

Yes, this, and generally unimpressive build quality, are what turn us off of most 5th wheels.

Neither my wife or I like the idea of hauling a 15,000 lb bohemoth on the highway coupled up to an 8500 lb truck. I also have read about too many horror stories on the latest GM and Ford diesels, especially the newer Fords, and while the Ram has the "good" diesel (the Cummins), even Cummins is apparently having some difficulties with the new emission standards, and the Ram truck is generally regarded as inferior to the GM or Ford trucks. And, diesel trucks are much more expensive to buy and then to maintain. I'd really like to avoid having to buy a Diesel. I'm more thinking either a Ford 6.2 liter gas (can haul up to 12,700 or 14,000+ with right gearing) or a Ford Ecoboost (can haul up to 11,800 lb). The Panamerica would seem to work with either of those gas trucks.

The build quality of the 5th wheels really turns us off.They "look good" when new, but they age very badly. By the time they are 8 years old, they look pretty faded and worn, and their resale values reflect that graphically. And the interior partition walls of 4.5mm luan covered with vinyl, and the flimsy plumbing, just don't cut it with me.

Then there's the slides. Yes, they wonderfully enlarge any RV. But, since their build quality varies a lot, you get problems too, like cracks in adjacent structural walls, slides that won't retract right when when you need to travel, and slides that deploy on the highway at 60 mph. We have actually seen all of the above happen.

We'd really like to be able to make an Airstream work.

Jim G

[Bill M.]

I pretty much think of Airstreams as a 2 person trailer no matter how long they are.

[kscherzi]

I agree with the two person thing. Whenever our adult son camps with us we lose the dinette and inside of the trailer suddenly becomes very crowded.

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

Ram truck is generally regarded as inferior to the GM or Ford trucks.

I wouldn't say that is the case anymore since 2009 Ram has improved build quality significantly. I've always been a GM guy and recently converted because the Ram's interior is superior to GM's quality. Ford is still up there. The big 3 however as a whole have really improved their interior qualities over the past 5 years from mounting market pressures.

[graysailor]

Good question as I am essentially a full timer. I know that the SOB's make more sense for full timing. More storage, more creature comforts inside but for some reason I just can't envision RV'ing in an SOB. I really enjoy the Airstream experience. The rallies, the conversation and always much to talk about with fellow Airstreamers.

I do believe Flying Cloud has a bunk bed model which essentially would give you two bedrooms. The 30' flavor should allow for ample room.

[acfdexpo]

I just purchased a 23D International which I tow with a Chevy Express 3500. I also have an autistic son. This set up may work for your family as well since it allows for separate personal space. The plan is to use a wireless monitor. Have not picked up the trailer yet so take it for what it's worth.

[BigButtUgly]

Airstreams are leakers, not good the farther north you go during colder temperatures, have complex systems which tie you to campgrounds, and are stupidly expensive. That said, ignoring the $ aspect, no trailers are good for extreme full timing. However if you purchase an older 26' single axle, seal it, do floors and gut it you'll do fine. Do a complete redesign and think "Yurt with tires" and think how did people live in log cabins. I did so in a 1958 22' Caravanner with $11K total invested. I even have a 3500 watt dual fuel electric start generator. Just as comfortable but requires more effort. Think point source propane, boiling water. foot air pump dedicated uses. wood for heat, milk jugs for water, home made very efficient ice chest, unique waste disposal, multipurpose kerosene, many items fold up or down from walls, and many items fold open only when needed. You'll be delighted how large 19' to 24' is using open concept. You'll shed much useless complex systems (walls and cabinets too) weight i.e my Caravanner is 2180# however 1,000# is in my tow supply/resupply vehicle. The maintenance and winterization curve is virtually zero.

[Wolf Alaska]

If U get a 5th er with 3 ax les, U will likely need a medium duty truck to tow it.

My neighbors have a 3 axle 5er & no truck at all. They hire the dealer to put it on the lakeside site each spring & take it back to dealer's storage ea ch fall !

I believe U could make 2 AS's work for U. More space & son could have his place.

The less U move around, the better that could work.

I often take 2 RV's on a trip, works gud. 😀

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by BigButtUgly

Airstreams are leakers, not good the farther north you go during colder temperatures, have complex systems which tie you to campgrounds, and are stupidly expensive.

Huh tie you to campgrounds?

[Xicaque]

Sub'd

[DHart]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

Paula, THANK-YOU for that link. It is proving to be very educaitonal, and inspirational.

The Panamerica IS capturing my interest. It would allow us to have the Airstream experience with both our son and my Harley, no problem.

I wonder though if I can really find one, and at a price we can handle. Airstream apparently made so few of them. I really, really like it though.

Jim G

Jim... as a motorcyclist, I can certainly see the appeal of the Panamerica. Thinking about one for your needs, if you could even find one, do you believe that the living space would comfortably suit 3 adults living in for extended periods of time? Or are you thinking that the "garage" would be converted to separate quarters for your son? In which case, where would your bike go? Realistically, though, it seems the Panamerica is a bit of a longshot to locate and acquire.

As for the build quality of other brands of trailers and 5th wheels, of course they are less than one might desire and in 10 years of full time living, would be quite tired. But what options do you have, really?

Airstreams aren't so well suited to your particular needs and while their build quality is a bit better than many SOBs, you will pay double for the cramped quarters three adults would occupy.

If you buy a late model, little used SOB trailer or 5th wheel, you can chew it up and spit it out over the course of 7 or 8 years, then buy another one... for similar money as a new Airstream. And the SOB offers so much better accomodations and storage space for three full-time adults.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure it all out on your own. There is little anyone else can really do to determine your best course of action.

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by DHart

Jim... as a motorcyclist, I can certainly see the appeal of the Panamerica. Thinking about one for your needs, if you could even find one, do you believe that the living space would comfortably suit 3 adults living in for extended periods of time? Or are you thinking that the "garage" would be converted to separate quarters for your son? In which case, where would your bike go? Realistically, though, it seems the Panamerica is a bit of a longshot to locate and acquire.

As for the build quality of other brands of trailers and 5th wheels, of course they are less than one might desire and in 10 years of full time living, would be quite tired. But what options do you have, really?

. . .

I think the Panamerica could be large enough, as our son needs a quiet spot more than square footage, and the "rear garage" could accommodate both him and the Harley (in our current cargo-trailer-based 6x12 garage/toyhauler/RV, the Harley is transported close to the passenger side wall, not centered, and does not adversely impact either tire loading or towing).

I agree that finding a Panamerica to buy is a long shot though.

A key attraction of the Panamerica over a SOB toyhauler is that it would weigh only about 2/3 of what the SOB would weigh. That is no exaggeration. The LIGHTEST SOB I have found so far that meets our needs weighs approximately 12,500 lb., and most are around 14,000 lb., and that is before our Harley and other gear. That necessitates an F250 or F350 diesel, which is unattractive to us from both an initial cost and ongoing maintenance cost perspective.

The research and analysis continues . . .

Jim G

[rostam]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

I think the Panamerica could be large enough, as our son needs a quiet spot more than square footage, and the "rear garage" could accommodate both him and the Harley (in our current cargo-trailer-based 6x12 garage/toyhauler/RV, the Harley is transported close to the passenger side wall, not centered, and does not adversely impact either tire loading or towing).

I agree that finding a Panamerica to buy is a long shot though.

A key attraction of the Panamerica over a SOB toyhauler is that it would weigh only about 2/3 of what the SOB would weigh. That is no exaggeration. The LIGHTEST SOB I have found so far that meets our needs weighs approximately 12,500 lb., and most are around 14,000 lb., and that is before our Harley and other gear. That necessitates an F250 or F350 diesel, which is unattractive to us from both an initial cost and ongoing maintenance cost perspective.

The research and analysis continues . . .

Jim G

I think the more experienced guys should chime in, but I would think that for a Panamerica (Gross weight 11,500#) you would also need an F250 or F350. Not sure an F150 can pull/stop that trailer.

[AtomicNo13]

It would be exceedingly rare to find a PanAm.
Want to buy mine? Kidding, never sell!

[Piggy Bank]

Look at this setup on page 1 of this thread.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f295...dy-114645.html


Does it have to be the current bike? Or would something like this meet your accessory transportation needs, and still allow for a more standard AS trailer to meet your lodging needs?

[2012FB]

We have good friends with a very similar situation only it is her 38 year old handicapped sister. They are now into a 45' pusher with slides and bunk. You are the only judge with respect to how much room your son needs. I would think the more space the better for year round 24 x 7 living. If he just needs his own space I would think the bunk would be a good choice. Our 15 year old spends a good deal of time in there if we are not out and about. Best of wishes for your long term decision. It would handle your trailered toys as well or lift for the bike towing a small car.

Absolutely a 3/4 ton diesel for the Panamerica (Gross weight 11,500#).

[PaulnGina]

Originally Posted by rostam

I think the more experienced guys should chime in, but I would think that for a Panamerica (Gross weight 11,500#) you would also need an F250 or F350. Not sure an F150 can pull/stop that trailer.

I'll say AMEN to that one.