Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-18-2009, 12:28 PM   #1
3 Rivet Member
 
2009 25' SS International
Pasadena , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
Furnace without shore power

I tried to have my AS heated without shore power, but half way thru the nite the batteries were drained...

What do you recommend to make it thru the nite besides thicker bedding and more clothes?

Thanks!
__________________

__________________
flmgrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 12:36 PM   #2
Refurbished 89 Excella
 
DKDarrow's Avatar
 
Sugar Valley , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 241
Obviously you need a NEW battery...........Actually unless you ran a whole bunch of lighting and stuff should last a couple of nights......Easily through ONE.........Good Luck......Dennis
__________________

__________________
Dennis & Susan
D&D Farms, Sugar Valley, Ga
Registered Boer goats
DKDarrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 12:41 PM   #3
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstream01's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Land of fruits and nuts , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 291
I ran mine all night in ~15F weather with thermostat set on 65F and only drained mine to about the 5/8th mark on my display. Sounds like its time for some new batteries, or some with a greater capacity.
__________________
Airstream01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 12:49 PM   #4
Moderator
 
moosetags's Avatar

 
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,764
Images: 5
What kind of Airstream are we talking about, with what kind of furnace, with how many batteries that are how old? Your profile shows no info.

With no information to go on, my best guess would be that your battery(batteries) are crap, and not holding a good charge. An Airstream furnace fan should be able to run the night with decent batteries.

Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with HAHA
2005 Suburban 2500 Quadrasteer (Olivia) & 2018 Silverado 2500 (Lillian)
moosetags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 12:50 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Mexray's Avatar
 
1978 28' Ambassador
Morada , California
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,583
The forced air, 12 volt blower motor in your furnace is the largest Amp Hog system in your AS, due to it's extended running time while heating...

When trying to run the furnace all night in COLD or FREEZING weather, your batteries must be fully charged by an external source (generator) before retiring for the night...

As noted above, if your batteries are reduced in capacity due to age, you're fighting an uphill battle, and you just won't "make it through the night."...
__________________
Ray & Pat; Morada, CA
Mexray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 10:43 PM   #6
3 Rivet Member
 
2009 25' SS International
Pasadena , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
sorry folks for the missing info:

09 25SS international, less than 4 months old, most of the time charged by solar, barley ever with shore power, however it seems like the voltage is not even that great (around 12.2 - 12.4) after sitting all day in the sun and system in store for a couple of days...

is my solar charger not working properly? are the (stock) batteries just bad?

thanks !
__________________
flmgrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 01:59 AM   #7
2xS
2 Rivet Member
 
2xS's Avatar
 
1971 31' Sovereign
San Diego , California
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 42
It's all about the current...

The furnace blower on a Suburban NT-30 draws about 4.5 Amperes.

Your solar charger (let's assume) is 100W.

BEST CASE SCENARIO:

I (current) = P (power) / V (voltage)

In this case and with my assumption of your solar panels, your battery would be charging at:
I = 100W / 12V
I = 8.333 A
...during daylight... which happens to be approx. 10 hours. This would give you about 83.33A/h available to draw from.

If you never plug in, then you're relying solely on the solar to charge your battery. And if you're running the furnace while you sleep (let's assume 8 hours), then 4.5A/h is used to power your furnace.
4.5A/h*8hours = 36A

In this example, your furnace will be utilizing about half of your daily charge. BUT, you will never achieve the best case scenario specs from your solar panels in the winter. AND this example also didn't take into account any other 12VDC appliances being on like water pumps, exhaust fans, or lighting which will obviously make it drain much faster...

Consider alternative charging sources... like a gasoline powered generator, a wind turbine, love, or the 120VAC socket of your neighbors house.
__________________
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
2xS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 02:22 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Mexray's Avatar
 
1978 28' Ambassador
Morada , California
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,583
This is simple, at 12.2 volts, you only have about 1/2 charge in your batteries, and won't stand up to running the heate blower overnight - as you've experienced.

You'll need to charge your batteries fully before more extended use. If you are constantly running in the 12.2 volt range, the batteries will begin to sulfate due to undercharge and lose capacity.

Recharging fully after use is the only way to assure long battery life.

Once your batteries are again fully charged, the solar will be able to keep them topped off - recharging via solar when the batteries are only 1/2 charged will take forever- or at least several days if there's no load on the batteries...

Ray
__________________
Ray & Pat; Morada, CA
Mexray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 06:41 AM   #9
Beneath the title
 
jnerges's Avatar
 
2005 28' International CCD
Mount Pleasant , South Carolina
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 307
Images: 6
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmgrip View Post
I tried to have my AS heated without shore power, but half way thru the nite the batteries were drained...

What do you recommend to make it thru the nite besides thicker bedding and more clothes?

Thanks!
This same thing happened to us. We were on Orcas Island, Boondocking. Plenty of propane so what could go wrong, right? Well the propane alarm went off, not that there was a leak but there was not enough power to sustain the alarm which will cause it to honk. Like a low battery on a smoke detector. I went out and changed batteries the next day, spent the day charing off the Honda 2000 and it was fine the next night.
__________________


Aunt Gladys, 28FT, Intl'
"Man, it's hot here, is the heat on?"
jnerges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 07:47 AM   #10
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Long ago, on our first RVing trip, in a rented trailer, we ran into this while boondocking in northern Minnesota on a cold, late September night. The trailer only had one battery in it and being a rental unit it had suffered a hard life. Ended up running off the TV battery for a while and idling the engine a little.

I've since come to the conclusion that a serious winter sleeping bag for each person is the best answer for boondocking. The furnace runs a lot less at 45 (maybe not at all depending on temperature and wind) than 70 and unless it's well below freezing out you still shouldn't have trouble with lines freezing. I have an old North Face sleeping bag that's supposed to be rated to -15 but in practice is quite comfortable down to 20 or so when I sleep outside. Then I turn up the furnace while having morning coffee.

In RVs the furnace has to be compact and so tradeoffs are made and they end up being inefficient and require a fan. There are non-electric vented heaters out there but they require a lot of space and a vertical vent pipe. Not sure I'd want one in a TT.
__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 04:00 PM   #11
Rivet Monster
 
wahoonc's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,174
Images: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Long ago, on our first RVing trip, in a rented trailer, we ran into this while boondocking in northern Minnesota on a cold, late September night. The trailer only had one battery in it and being a rental unit it had suffered a hard life. Ended up running off the TV battery for a while and idling the engine a little.

I've since come to the conclusion that a serious winter sleeping bag for each person is the best answer for boondocking. The furnace runs a lot less at 45 (maybe not at all depending on temperature and wind) than 70 and unless it's well below freezing out you still shouldn't have trouble with lines freezing. I have an old North Face sleeping bag that's supposed to be rated to -15 but in practice is quite comfortable down to 20 or so when I sleep outside. Then I turn up the furnace while having morning coffee.

In RVs the furnace has to be compact and so tradeoffs are made and they end up being inefficient and require a fan. There are non-electric vented heaters out there but they require a lot of space and a vertical vent pipe. Not sure I'd want one in a TT.
They also have the Catalytic heaters that do not require venting.

On many Airstreams the holding tanks are heated by the forced air furnace so having them operational may be necessary in sub freezing conditions to keep the tanks from solidifying. FWIW that is the way my 1975 is set up, as part of my rebuild I am installing 12 volt tank heating system as a backup.

My recommendation is at the very least to have a small generator along to provide power in case you end up boondocking for an extended period due to adverse weather. I use a Honda 2000iA. I have two that can be paired up to provide power for my AC in the summer. In the winter months I will keep one with me for backup power, it has more than enough power to keep the furnace running and the batteries topped up. It saved us one weekend when an unexpected ice storm hit, the campground we were in lost power, and the road in was completed blocked by downed power lines and trees. It took a couple of days for them to get it cleared out so we could leave. If not for the generator we would have been cold and in the dark pretty quick.

We also keep the furnace on a very low setting and use the cat heater for direct warmth. Down comforters and flannel sheets on the bed.

Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 04:55 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
DaveFL's Avatar
 
2000 31' Land Yacht
Central , Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,479
Images: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xS View Post
...
...during daylight... which happens to be approx. 10 hours. This would give you about 83.33A/h available to draw from.

If you never plug in, then you're relying solely on the solar to charge your battery. And if you're running the furnace while you sleep (let's assume 8 hours), then 4.5A/h is used to power your furnace.
4.5A/h*8hours = 36A

In this example, your furnace will be utilizing about half of your daily .
Two things not quite right here, assuming 8 hrs charge, I have found doesn't happen when it is needed, between clouds and trees covering collector cut this in half or double the collector capacity. While sleeping 8 hrs, furnace cycles and the fan with it so on time is less than the 36A.

Has anyone tried the resistor trick mentioned for the stove vent fan to reduce fan speed and power consumption? I used the resistor on the vent fan and it made an unbearable noise to a livable level.
__________________
DaveFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 05:40 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
Lumatic's Avatar

 
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,642
Images: 16
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmgrip View Post
I tried to have my AS heated without shore power, but half way thru the nite the batteries were drained...

What do you recommend to make it thru the nite besides thicker bedding and more clothes?

Thanks!
Formulas are not my favorite even when I'm 100%. Now with the flu I can't deal. How about nice warm bodies? Like a 3 dog night? and a bottle of Jaegermeister.
__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
Lumatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2009, 06:26 PM   #14
3 Rivet Member
 
2009 25' SS International
Pasadena , California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
thank you!

I think my solar panel is 110w... So with all the math beeing done something is not right with my batteries...

My system has been off for at least a week and I stopped by during daylight hours (solar charging), as soon as I turned on the lights the voltage dropped from maybe 13 to 12.2 ...

And I had the AS out recently and was plugged into shore, once unplugged it seemed the voltage dropped...

Did I ruin my batteries by 'deep discharging' ? Or do the stock batteries just suck and I should get some better replacements? What would u recommend ?


Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xS View Post
The furnace blower on a Suburban NT-30 draws about 4.5 Amperes.

Your solar charger (let's assume) is 100W.

BEST CASE SCENARIO:

I (current) = P (power) / V (voltage)

In this case and with my assumption of your solar panels, your battery would be charging at:
I = 100W / 12V
I = 8.333 A
...during daylight... which happens to be approx. 10 hours. This would give you about 83.33A/h available to draw from.

If you never plug in, then you're relying solely on the solar to charge your battery. And if you're running the furnace while you sleep (let's assume 8 hours), then 4.5A/h is used to power your furnace.
4.5A/h*8hours = 36A

In this example, your furnace will be utilizing about half of your daily charge. BUT, you will never achieve the best case scenario specs from your solar panels in the winter. AND this example also didn't take into account any other 12VDC appliances being on like water pumps, exhaust fans, or lighting which will obviously make it drain much faster...

Consider alternative charging sources... like a gasoline powered generator, a wind turbine, love, or the 120VAC socket of your neighbors house.
__________________

__________________
flmgrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Always tied to shore power carpetbob Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 3 11-13-2009 10:08 AM
Power surging from shore power in my Excella 500? NVDeputy Lights - Interior & Exterior 4 10-09-2009 12:52 PM
Shore Power Again The Flintstones Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 13 10-09-2007 08:18 PM
Shore power and battery power problems jfremstad Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 5 05-03-2007 09:23 AM
Power w/o batt. just shore... crazylev On The Road... 8 11-12-2004 05:14 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.