Winterizing with no antifreeze

[farafield]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

...That said, Airstream should provide better documentation on performing these type chores for owners, the owners book is simply not enough and the new owner walkabout is like drinking water through a firehouse!

Don't get me started on the AS owner's manual!

[farafield]

Would putting vinegar through the lines help disperse the antifreeze in the spring? I use vinegar for use about everything these days!

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

Sounds like so much extra work that I am going to assume I don’t need to do in San Diego. Being new (as in pick up my first trailer ever next Wednesday, a 22’ Sport), and entering winter, do I really need to do anything more than drain the tanks/lines here since it doesn’t freeze by the coast? Thanks in advance for the advice

You should be fine IMO, but if you go inland just few miles to camp at higher altitudes, you could risk a freeze up. Depends on the specific weather and location.

Lived on the coast from PB to Cardiff many years ago, hello to the Pacific Ocean!

Peter

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by farafield

I'm wondering exactly which parts are subject to damage--i.e. where is there no room for expansion of freezing water.

Hi

When the water freezes, it expands in all directions. If you are "constrained" in any direction ... it's a problem.

Quick list of things that are normally constrained:

All the pipes
All the pipe connectors
All the valves
All the traps
All the faucets
The water pump
The back flow preventers
The shower head(s)

What's missing:

Fresh water tank / black water tank / gray water tank if they have a small amount of water in them. Note- just the tank, not the stuff hooked to it.

The question always will be "are some of those freeze resistant?". Depending on the vintage of your trailer, the piping and connections may be freeze resistant.

Bob

[SailorSam205]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Another point of concern during months of not using are the batteries, they have parasitic draining just to power instruments and sensors. When they go below 9 W they can’t be recovered. I know, I just lost my 2 AGMs and need to buy new ones in the spring. If the RV is disconnected from power, best practice is probably to remove them and connect them to a battery tender in the garage. Kindly correct everything I got wrong. Thanks.

A fully charged battery should be fine for months if there are no parasitic drains. Two solutions, add a battery disconnect in a location the kills ALL parasitic loads or simply disconnect the battery (take the negative lead off first).
A fully charged battery will not freeze until temps get to well past -50F. The colder it gets, the slower a battery will self discharge. Good idea to make sure the top of the battery is clean.

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

You should be fine IMO, but if you go inland just few miles to camp at higher altitudes, you could risk a freeze up. Depends on the specific weather and location.

Lived on the coast from PB to Cardiff many years ago, hello to the Pacific Ocean!

Peter

The Pacific Ocean says hello back (from Carlsbad). I’m about 3 miles from the coast, but only 1 mile from the end of a lagoon, so true freezing temps should not be an issue. Frost, very possible.

[ekbruster]

I got a camco bypass kit for mine, mounts quickly just before the pump inlet, this way you can drop a hose into a bottle of anti-freeze and pump it through each faucet/shower head and done, I blow the lines out first to make sure I get the water inlet for the city water connector. At least this way I don't have to fill the water tank with antifreeze and it is pretty easy to flush just the lines. I live in Michigan, had a previous trailer that the dealer just blew out the lines on and there were two low-points that had elbows in the system which collected water which froze and split, so not a fan of just using air. If you are going that route I agree with the previous post, blow them out more than once ensuring water didn't settle in low-points in the line, otherwise you'll have a sprinkler come spring!

[pjshier]

I, too, eschew the use of antifreeze in the fresh water lines. This spring, I replaced the loud and getting louder water pump, and added flexible lines plus an expansion tank. Very effective in reducing pump noise and frequency - within limits.

Winterizing was by the book - drain all, close low point drains, charge system with 60# air and clear fixtures one by one.

Added belt and suspenders approaches:
1. went through the whole book process twice, including the low point drains re-opened with air pressure. Found water in those locations.
2. Shop vac with a small aperture hose extension - dragged it through the coach after the air purge was completed. Applied suction not only to the faucets, but disconnected every hose I could reach that had the easy-on-off couplers or variations of same - including removing the shower hoses inside and out, and sink faucet head. Found some reluctant water in the toilet valve and a LOT of water lurking in the pump. Disconnected hoses and turned on the pump and a bunch of water came out on the flooor... maybe 1/2 cup - enough to do damage i think..
3. The expansion tank did not add any complexity and is easily emptied. I will release the air pressure for the winter, and leave all the valves in the open position.

The shop vac really does help evacuate residual moisture.

[drbrick]

We do both - Viair blow-out of lines then RV antifreeze throught the filter and water pump but whatever you do, do not put the antifreeze in you fresh water tank you will never get the taste out.

[Eeziter]

After doing this for 3 season now with 2 airstreams I think it’s the only way to go. Especially since we use our airstreams in nov/dec and don’t want to spend a lot of time dewinterizing before we go. Haven’t had any issues yet (fingers crossed).

[Steamy1]

Originally Posted by Dschonfelder

I stongly recommend you pour RV antifreeze down all drains, may a cup per drain or so, all sinks, shower drain, toilet drain. If not, that water in the traps will freeze and bust your pumbing. A real pain to repair and costly.

Dave Schonfelder. Youtube, Google
Author, Poet, Recording Artist

One suggestion to avoid doing this that I do is use a portable leaf blower to all of the drains and just blow them out. No water=no freezing.

Has anyone installed and used the Lippert Floe system?

Lippert Components Floë 809127 Induratec 12V Integrated Water Drain Down System for RVs and Boats.

[jan55255]

Hello,


We're in the process of purchasing a Classic. Last winter on the old TT, I did the same thing that Dschonfelder did by attaching an air compressor @ 45 psi and let it go for 20 minutes then started shutting off the faucets. I did this 3 times to ensure all the water was out. I then added RV anti-freeze to the holding tanks to protect the drain valves.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by jan55255

Hello,


We're in the process of purchasing a Classic. Last winter on the old TT, I did the same thing that Dschonfelder did by attaching an air compressor @ 45 psi and let it go for 20 minutes then started shutting off the faucets. I did this 3 times to ensure all the water was out. I then added RV anti-freeze to the holding tanks to protect the drain valves.

Not the best idea for the drain valve seals, same goes for the toilet dumper valve, no Rv AF in either. AMHIK
I leave the tank valves open.👍
Bob
🇺🇸

[lynnsr]

Originally Posted by Wyo Silver

That is the only way I have ever winterized. Just the smell from putting the antifreeze in the traps is almost more than my wife can stand. There is no way I want it in the fresh water lines.

I completely agree, and if done correctly it will never freeze and break.

The horror stories about blowing it out with Air, whether a camper, or a yard sprinkler system, is missing the underlined word.

[majorairhead]

I blow out the lines, then run pink through. Helps me sleep soundly when the temps are around 5 degrees with a 20 mph wind.

First trip in spring, or if going south, make sure to have full hookups, fire up the city water, hook up the sewer hose, and let her run.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by Steamy1

One suggestion to avoid doing this that I do is use a portable leaf blower to all of the drains and just blow them out. No water=no freezing.

Has anyone installed and used the Lippert Floe system?

Lippert Components Floë 809127 Induratec 12V Integrated Water Drain Down System for RVs and Boats.

Do we know what the PSI put out by a leaf blower? Also the tolerance of pluming system affected, all the way from drain at the appliance till discharge?

The pink stuff is a simple solution for the drain elbows and waste tanks, not so much for the feeding system which may include the inline filter for drinking water under the sink, which if with water it will burst on freezing but can be drained with air, easier than disconnected, drained by gravity (if possible), connect a bypass and blow it our with compressed air as every feeding line, air pump, water heater, etc.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Do we know what the PSI put out by a leaf blower? Also the tolerance of pluming system affected, all the way from drain at the appliance till discharge?

The pink stuff is a simple solution for the drain elbows and waste tanks, not so much for the feeding system which may include the inline filter for drinking water under the sink, which if with water it will burst on freezing but can be drained with air, easier than disconnected, drained by gravity (if possible), connect a bypass and blow it our with compressed air as every feeding line, air pump, water heater, etc.

I doubt if it's above 35psi restricted flow.
I use a 25g 120psi compressor set at 35psi continuous for 30min opening ALL outlets one at a time, including the WH.

Our WP regulator is set at 60psi.

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Do we know what the PSI put out by a leaf blower? Also the tolerance of pluming system affected, all the way from drain at the appliance till discharge?

........

Hi

Given the normal construction of the air mover on a leaf blower ... something less than 5 PSI no matter how you play with the air flow. Likely less than 3 PSI. They are designed for high volume of flow at a very low pressure (compared to a compressor). Indeed they move air at a high pressure differential compared to something like a window fan.

As noted above, the plumbing is normally regulated around 50 to 60 PSI. The pipes and fittings should be fine at 120 psi. That said, unless you have a monster compressor, there is no way to get much pressure in there with an open valve or faucet. The "valve open" condition is the one you care about to blow out the water.

Bob