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Old 10-26-2005, 06:00 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rseagle
The water pump in the CCD is real difficult to access.
I can appreciate that. My Safari was the same way in that I would have had to cut molding trim to allow a panel to be removed. I figured it would not look to good so I used the fresh water tank route like you do today.

I had to get a warranty pump replacement early this year on the Classic. The pump had a faulty check valve which was allowing the fresh water tank to slowly fill whenever I was connected to city water. Last fall I had a heck of a time even getting the pump to pull the anti-freeze from the bottle when the line contained nothing but air. I ended up pouring some anti-freeze into the tubing then shoving the tube into the bottle. I figured it was a lost prime situation.

The new pump had no problems this year. I'm just thinking out loud here but I wonder if your pump is sucking from the city side? Is your city inlet cap closed and tight at this point? If it's not, try to close it and see if the pump can pull the anti-freeze now. It's a long shot guess but it if it works it saves a purchase and then adds a question as to whether you do have a pump issue.

Jack
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:15 PM   #114
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I installed the Camco bypass valve Sunday...

... per john hd's thread (http://www.airforums.com/forums/winterizing/7222-getting-ready-the-freeze.html). My 25' Safari FB has all wet appliances fairly close together. I blew everything out first. Then it took only 2 gallons to fill all tubing, faucet controller valves & my traps. The water heater was drained of course. This bypass method is so much easier than trying to dilute and flush antifreeze out of the main water tank in the spring.

John's photo of the water pump sitting all by itself has got to be doctored! There just isn't that much room in the nether parts!! On my Safari FB SE this is located under the fridge and a wardrobe. Two heat ducts are moved away to get access. The white ringed hose is the water fill tube routing toward the freshwater tank below the floor to the left.

Photo key:
1. The brass Camco 3-way bypass valve; the alternate inlet opening is facing away. You thread the Camco hose on that other opening, throw the lever crossways, stick the Camco hose in your gallons of RV antifreeze and turn on your pump. The grey body to the right of the brass valve is an adapter included in the Camco kit. Like john hd also did, you see some teflon tape in spite of the o-rings in the connectors. The water pump is black and just going out of picture on the right. Instructions with the Camco kit are quite complete -- but the job is nearly as simple as attaching a garden hose to a faucet. I bought the Camco kit at our local fleet store; it's inexpensive -- currently $13.49 on sale at CW.
2. Screwholes for the original location of my water pump. The valve and adapter are almost 3" long, thus the water pump had to be moved. I had to get a little creative with repositioning the 'pulsation dampener' hose loop coming off the pump outlet.
3. The strainer is just to the left of mid-picture. I would probably have liked the bypass valve in area "3" to protect the strainer but don't have the PEX tools and would have needed more parts than in the Camco kit. I used my air compressor to blow from right to left (back into the tank) to prove the strainer was empty before installing the valve kit.
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:33 PM   #115
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Getting ready for the freeze.pdf

I created a .pdf document out of John HD's thread (John gave permission). If anyone wants a copy, just pm me with an e-mail address. Or if anyone cares to host it, feel free.

Dennis
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:56 PM   #116
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Quote:
John's photo of the water pump sitting all by itself has got to be doctored!
i think not!

that is one of the great features of the classic model from the early '90's.. the factory provided ample room for the water pump under a false floor in the wardrobe.

glad to see you guys making use of an old post!

john
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Old 10-26-2005, 08:06 PM   #117
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hi iver and others

congrats on the new unit....if it's coming to the dealer in late fall or winter, it will come from the factory already winterized....that means lines blown, gycol in the lines, tank empty, gycol in the traps and filters out....

so the dealer will need to 'unwinterize' it for you at delivery...unless you tell them other wise....

if you're only going to use it 1-2 days on the way home and then not again till spring, it might be better to just leave it winterized from the factory. you could still use it on the way home...except for water, toilet and tanks...

if you really want to use the water lines for just a few days and then rewinterize it, i'd suggest asking the dealer to wait until you arrive, accept delivery and do the run through of all systems. then you could be there when the tech unwinterizes it and watch. now you'd have first hand experience with the lines, valves, pump, tanks, filters, and so on....

since winterizing the newer trailers is so easy, having seen the tech undo it, you will now feel confident enough to do it yourself....it takes very little time.

just a suggestion.

cheers
2air'


someone mentioned pex...well that's what the new units have and while it does expand and tolerate freezing water somewhat, the factory still suggests winterization. the valves, pump, filter, faucets, joints and so on can still be damaged from freezing....and so can the pex....it's just more tolerant than pervious pipe materials.
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Old 10-27-2005, 03:41 AM   #118
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Jack,

The city water cap was tight, as I had just removed the compressed air nipple. I'll try another gallon of anti-freeze. If that doesn't work, I'd expect it to be a problem with the pump.
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Old 10-27-2005, 08:53 AM   #119
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Thanks much for the help. Talked with the dealer and he is going to install the valve ($50) necessary to make the process of winterizing very easy after they show me what to do upon arrival in Albuquerque. As I said, we are moving from Southern California so will need a break ... packing up, selling a house, moving, buying a new house and business in Albuquerque. This trip to get the trailer will be a time to rest and concentrate on the new streamer. For those who don't know, I am told that my 28' Safari SE was through the assembly line right behind the one they built for the New Orleans RV show. We badly wanted the pano windows on both ends so we got the second trailer, of this size, made with those. Our unit will either have all the flaws later units will have corrected or will be perfect because they have paid attention, finally, to fit and finish. I will be sure to report in either case.

Regards to everyone. This site has been wonderful in getting me as ready as I can be for this adventure into the cult of Airstream.

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Old 10-29-2005, 02:27 AM   #120
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Full Pano windows - Really!!?

Hey welcome to the ALBQ area !!!! Firstly!

Now secondly, let me ask you about the full panos that you had installed - F+R Right?? Sorry to sound so odd but I have F+R Panos on my unit and have seen it on no other unit I can recall - anywhere!

Would really love to see another unit with the "Full Panorama" view that I have on SilverToy. Since this is my first unit I was unaware of the rarity of this feature. Seemingly lots of things constrain and disqualify a unit from having it even as an option, then people don't want to spend the $ to get it. Their loss, MY gain!

Anyway, nice to see reference to the Pano windows. Love em like I do!

Cioa

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Old 10-30-2005, 04:50 PM   #121
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Water Pump not holding pressure

I added another gallon of anti-freeze to the water holding tank (4 1/2 gallons total). As soon as I turned on the water pump switch, the pump started running. Normal when the system isn't pressurized. However, when I opened the faucet, it only spit some anti-freeze and never went to a steady flow. The pump continued to run (working hard), even after I closed the faucet. This indicates that there is a problem with the pump or something on the suction side preventing the pressure to hold.

Has anyone had a similar problem with their water pump?
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Old 10-30-2005, 06:41 PM   #122
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Members -- Pay attention to Bob's previous post

... but I'm going to pose one more thought. If the latest gallon just got the level to where it'd draw, what if pumping some of that gallon up into your pipes pulled it down to where it was drawing air again? (thus the spitting)

I don't have the best notion of whether the intake out of your fresh tank is in the middle or on either side. If it is the latter you might see what happens if you alternate running either the right or left tires up onto a 2x6 -- or two. Then is it either fore or aft in the tank, thus affected by tongue height (hadn't we gone there already?).

It takes a little tinkering but installing the Camco 3-way winterizing valve let me winterize with only two gallons! Amounts may vary. My access was very difficult but my Argosy experience helps me take things apart -- maybe a little too well. I have a couple herniated disks in my neck and had a very tough week at work because of last Sunday's valve installation. I wish the neck had as workable a solution.

Anybody else have suggestions on accessing 22' CCD pumps?
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Old 10-30-2005, 10:17 PM   #123
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Bob, have you ever drained the fresh water tank after the pump has pretty much gone dry? Has it drained for a while? If so then you pretty much have answered your question and your pickup in the fresh water tank isn't low enough to really drain the tank. This is the danger when using the tank method to winterize. When undrained, or pumped water left in the tank will dilute the antifreeze.

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Old 10-30-2005, 10:46 PM   #124
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Too many Bobs

I was directing attention back to rseagle or 'Bauxite Bungalow' Bob. I feel he still has an issue from about 3 posts back where he asks for help from those with similar problems. I also think 22' CCD owners with experience accessing their water pump could help. Any ideas out there?

And I prefer to read Jack's last post as being directed at helping rseagle -- Jack always seems to have "been there, done that." Know I don't pass up many of his posts!
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Old 10-31-2005, 03:45 AM   #125
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Here's what I know:
I had drained the tank of water before starting the winterizing. I even jacked the front up higher to allow water to flow to the outlet at the rear of the tank. The 4 1/2 gallons of anti-freeze represents almost 1/4 of my tank capacity. The inlet to the suction line is low enoungh for me to almost completely drain the tank of water on camping trips. The trailer is level. The spitting started immediately upon switching the pump on and opening the faucet. I believe that I should have gotten full flow as soon as the anti-freeze reached the pump. It didn't! I did last year with 3 1/2 gallons.

What I speculate: It apprears that the check valve or the pump is the problem.
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Old 10-31-2005, 08:20 AM   #126
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I have read several pages of this thread but not all - hoping to find other tips on winterizing than "antifreeze" and pipes.

I know that taking out all the food is a really good idea - but what else do we really have to take out?

2 hours N/E of Toronto - so we get a nice cold winter. So it is a no brainer that anything that can freeze and damage is a given for warmer storage....However is it really necessary to take out all the cushions? and if they go - do the curtains have to come out too. Is there really that bad of a chance of getting mold if the trailer stays brrrrcold???

Any insight would be appreciated - from a similar climate. Thanks
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