Winterizing - Miscellaneous....

[Craig]

A couple questions came up when I winterized yesterday that I haven't seen addressed here. The winterizing went great! The two questions are:

1. After the antifreeze has been added to the lines, do you open the drain valves, faucets, etc, or leave them all closed? Opening would allow a lot of the antifreeze to drain, but since all the water is out, I don't know if that matters...

2. Do you put anything into your holding tanks during the winter? Seems like something added might help keep the valves operating smoothly. I think I once read that someone adds vegetable oil...

Thanks!

Craig

[RichardT]

Keep them closed with antifreeze in lines.

No need to put anything in holding tanks once drained as minimal amount of water will not cause damage. Vegetable oil does not sound like a good idea to me as it would turn rancid and is not needed.

[TomW]

Originally Posted by Craig

...After the antifreeze has been added to the lines, do you open the drain valves, faucets, etc, or leave them all closed? Opening would allow a lot of the antifreeze to drain, but since all the water is out, I don't know if that matters...

I was thinking about that exact same thing earlier as this winter will be the first time my Overlander has been winterized in 23 years. The goal is to displace all water in the system with antifreeze. Once that has been done, I see no good reason to leave the bulk of the antifreeze in the lines - It will sit there & flavor the inside of the lines. And (I think RLuhr mentioned this), in really cold weather, the antifreeze can get slushy, which means it is starting to freeze, which means it may be expanding.

While I am still formulating my plan, at this point I plan to blow out the water with compressed air, circulate antifreeze throughout all the lines, and then drain the antifreeze out. I too would like to hear a benefit to leaving the antifreeze in the lines.

Tom

[rluhr]

I leave the anti-freeze in the lines only because I'm too lazy to blow it out! And I don't have a low-point drain in my system.

Once the winterizing is done, I turn off the water pump, and open one faucet to de-pressurize the system. That way, if the antifreeze does get slushy, it has some expansion room.

I expect to taste the anti-freeze come spring no matter what, so I rely on the Vitamin C trick to deal with that. (Drop three or four 500mgm tablets in the tank after you sanitize, to eliminate the taste.)

[fireflyinva]

Good point--we were never really able to get rid of the pinkish hued water all year long, no matter how much water we ran through the taps (of course, every time we did, another valve would leak). Once Rick finishes replacing all of the valves (yes, all of them), we're planning to run water through them for many hours to finally clear it all out. I wonder if our plumbing problems may have been caused by antifreeze...

I like the idea of blowing out the antifreeze--though it strikes me that if the lines are dry, why bother putting antifreeze in at all?

Mary

[TomW]

Originally Posted by fireflyinva

...I like the idea of blowing out the antifreeze--though it strikes me that if the lines are dry, why bother putting antifreeze in at all?

Because the lines end up being "theoretically" dry. In other words, in spite of your best efforts at tilting the trailer to drain the lines and/or blowing compressed air throughout the system, apparently water can still remain. I'm under the impression that some people are able to do only that, and have never put antifreeze in their system.

My owner's manual has a very good procedure for winterizing, and antifreeze is not involved. However, I replaced three separate patched areas of plumbing in my Overlander during the refurb. It is not a lot fun even when the plumbing is "easy" to get to as it was during the refurb.

My plan is to get (what I think) is all the water out, then use antifreeze. It may be "belt & suspenders", but I have no desire to repair the plumbing next spring.

Tom

[jcanavera]

I blew out my lines last week with 60 psi of pressure with my neighbors big compressor. I didn't have any antifreeze at the time so we did a good job blowing everything out.

I went back a week later, this past Sunday and unscrewed the fresh water tank line from the pump and used a hose assembly to have the pump draw from the antifreeze bottle. Upon opening up the kitchen valve, I got a brief shot of clear water before the antifreeze started flowing.

Bottom line that clear water was most likely residule water still in the pump that wasn't cleared by blow out of the lines. That's the reason why I use antifreeze. I know there is no water in the system once I do this.

Jack

[john hd]

i used to winterize my trailer by just draining and blowing out.

this is why i use antifreeze:

no matter how much air you blow through the pipes you cannot get all the little droplets out of the system.

the moen faucet cartridges hold water and break. i know, i have replaced all of them!

the sprayer on the toilet holds water and breaks. i know, i replaced it!

the vaccum breaker on the shower holds water and breaks. i know, i rebuilt it!

those of you in warmer zones might get away with just draining, or with just draining and blowing the system out.

here in the frozen tundra i do all three, drain, air and antifreeze. i learned my lesson! eight or ten bucks of antifreeze is cheaper than plumbing parts!

john

[Craig]

I didn't mean to start a debate about using antifreeze, but rather to find out from those that do, whether they open the valves and faucets after the antrifreeze is added, or leave the system completely filled with antifreeze. Seems either way would work to me, but didn't know if there was something I wasn't considering.

[TomW]

Originally Posted by Craig

I didn't mean to start a debate about using antifreeze, but rather to find out from those that do, whether they open the valves and faucets after the antrifreeze is added, or leave the system completely filled with antifreeze. Seems either way would work to me, but didn't know if there was something I wasn't considering.

Even though I'm guilty of aiding & abetting the hijackers, I was, and still am, curious if anyone could point to a benefit of leaving the antifreeze in the system. The only benefit so far appears to be "less work".

I thought for sure Inland Andy would comment when he came online, but then it dawned on me that it probably never freezes in California. Andy would probably not have an answer!

Tom

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by tcwilliams

Even though I'm guilty of aiding & abetting the hijackers, I was, and still am, curious if anyone could point to a benefit of leaving the antifreeze in the system.
Tom

Tom, I leave it in. Its just more work to have to repressurize the system and drain. Leaving it in provides no benefit in my estimation other than it keeps washers and other valve sealing items from drying out.

Jack

[Silvertwinky]

even winterized yet. Usually it has been done before now but with all of this beautiful weather we have had I just can't seem to bring myself to it. We just returned from a weekend in Pigeon Forge with some friends and had a wonderful time. Maybe I'm thinking its still travel weather, ya think? Or maybe we could just head South for the winter in the old trailer, hmmmm lets see here, something is wrong with this picture... Oh yeah, I know what it is, I still have to go to work so I can't!

Well THEN, I guess I will go out in the morning and start the process of winterizing the ole "Silvertwinky."

[balrgn]

Originally Posted by Craig

A couple questions came up when I winterized yesterday that I haven't seen addressed here. The winterizing went great! The two questions are:

1. After the antifreeze has been added to the lines, do you open the drain valves, faucets, etc, or leave them all closed? Opening would allow a lot of the antifreeze to drain, but since all the water is out, I don't know if that matters...

2. Do you put anything into your holding tanks during the winter? Seems like something added might help keep the valves operating smoothly. I think I once read that someone adds vegetable oil...

Thanks!

Craig

I have taken a simple aproach to winterizing. I modified a (new) 2 gallon bug sprayer, by adding a short piece of garden hose. Fill the sprayer up, then pressurize. Pump the sprayer up, go into the camper and start opening faucets, close the faucet when the antifreeze starts I start with the galley and work my way back. Then open the drain on the H/W tank when I am done.

[TomW]

What do you do about the water in the line between the fresh water tank, pump and first faucet?

[Minnie's Mate]

I don't mean to start another tangent debate, but there was a rather famous murder trial going on here in Georgia where a woman was accused of murdering her husband and a boyfriend by poisoning them with antifreeze. Excuse me. The judge ordered the term antifreeze to not be used since this case had already been dubbed the "antifreeze murders" and the prosecution used the term ethal glycol, I believe.

Anyway, the stuff is sweet and deadly. (That is why the EPA doesn't want it spilt on the ground; animals find it and drink it because it taste so good and then they die.) Anyway, one of the bodies was exumed and found to contain evidence of the stuff. The woman claims her husband had the stuff in his shop and must have drunk it on his own.

I know winterizing is not a concern of mine at this point, but I don't think I want to risk the consequences of not being able to get it all out of the water lines the next spring. Maybe I'm too cautious or just paranoid.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I know winterizing is not a concern of mine at this point, but I don't think I want to risk the consequences of not being able to get it all out of the water lines the next spring. Maybe I'm too cautious or just paranoid.

The anti-freeze we are talking about uses propylene glycol as its active ingrediant which makes it safe for use in potable water systems. The is a much different product from the anti-freeze used in autos.

Here is the info from the Prestone page.

"Prestone® RV Antifreeze Provides Exceptional Protection for Winterizing Water Systems

Use Prestone® RV Antifreeze for winterizing all types of potable water systems, such as those found in vacation homes, boats, trailers, as well as swimming pool filtration and heating systems. This propylene glycol-based formula prevents potable water system pipes from suffering burst-damage during the winter, while protecting against the build-up of rust and corrosion.

Prestone Products' specially formulated RV Antifreeze provides quality performance and burst protection down to -50°F.

Also, Prestone RV Antifreeze meets the industry's minimum corrosion requirements for all common metals. Again, tests show that most of the competitive products are unable to meet their claims of providing the same level of protection as Prestone RV Antifreeze.

Winterizing Your Vacation Home or RV
Unless you plan to pay for heat all season, it is essential to keep antifreeze in your RV or vacation home's water system throughout the winter months in order to prevent burst pipes and corrosion. Empty out your water system first before putting in Prestone® RV Antifreeze. For your convenience, Prestone RV Antifreeze has been formulated so that it does not need to be diluted before being put into the system.

In the spring, flush out the system completely to get rid of all of the antifreeze. Prestone RV Antifreeze's bright pink, nonpermanent-staining color helps you see when your water is completely clear."

Jack

[fireflyinva]

Ok--got a question in the "odd thing that happen when it's dark and cold out" category--

Does anyone else's trailer burp when you put in the pink stuff? Ours did as we raced around to beat the freeze Monday night. It belched pink goo (three times!) all over my gloves and coat sleeves! By the way, I did find that pink goo is washable, a good thing, considering that it smells so--well--unpleasantly wierd.

Some how I don't recall having a pink goo reflux situation last year. Maybe I was wearing (hahaha) rose-tinted glasses when we winterized for the first time!

Mary

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

The anti-freeze we are talking about uses propylene glycol as its active ingrediant which makes it safe for use in potable water systems. The is a much different product from the anti-freeze used in autos.

Uh...I knew that !

What can I say, I a total newby.

[jordandvm]

I store my AS in a covered secure building with electric outlet nearby. I'm planning on using my trailer from time to time all winter here in Western Oregon for short outings. Has anyone just put a small thermostat controlled floorstand electric heater inside your AS to keep it warm (40-50 degrees) ......versus going to the trouble of blowing out your lines and adding RV antifreeze? We do get temps below freezing (sometimes prolonged) from time to time. A friend of mine owns a SOB that he stores outside, and this is his approach to the winterizing option. I asked him if his unit could be plugged into shore power non-stop without ruining his battery.....he replied he didn't think it would be a problem. If I just run an extension cord to a floorstand heater inside, to avoid hooking up to shore power, would this be a better option? I could also remove the battery and store it inside the trailer to keep it from freezing with this option. Of course, then I'd have to figure out how to get the cord into the AS without letting in "varmits". Any suggestions on how to do this?
Jim

[jcanavera]

The big problem is that the electric heater will not provide heat to the underfloor areas like the furnace will. Any water piping in those areas could freeze. That would be my major concern.

Jack