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Old 08-28-2018, 07:15 PM   #1
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Winterized Today, I Think?

So it was in the 20' in the mountains this weekend and I decided to winterize our 2017, 16' Sport today. Did everything by the Owners Manual. While using compressed air to drain the water heater tank ( 60 psi minimum ) I could not eliminate a gurgling noise in the tank. That suggested to me that there was still water in the tank somewhere. Even after no more water came out of the outside tank drain there still was a gurgling noise coming from the inside cold water line going into the bottom of the tank.
See attached photo. The cold water line and the inlet to the tank which slopes downward from the bottom of the tank, form a p-trap that could trap water. How do you verify that there's not enough water left in this trap to freeze and damage something?
Need advice Click image for larger version

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Old 08-28-2018, 07:17 PM   #2
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Bypass the water heater, and run RV antifreeze through the system. Make sure you dump some antifreeze down the drains, as well.
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Old 08-28-2018, 07:58 PM   #3
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We don't use antifreeze in the supply plumbing FWIW. Totally unnecessary, but you do have to be careful with all the details.

Have you also opened all the low-point drains [LPD], and let compressed air run through them? The manual should have something on this. We have 2 hot and 2 cold LPD. It sounds as if you correctly removed the drain plug at the bottom of the water heater [accessed from exterior door/hatch to mechanical space].

Have you drained/cleaned the filter by the pump, and blown air [by mouth] back into the supply pipe coming from the water tank? [This is a detail most miss -- not necessary on all AS but good to know about IMO.]

In your photo, if you used compressed air to empty the water heater tank, removed the bottom drain plug, and then blew more air through, there should not be any water left to freeze in the low point P-trap-ish setup you asked about IMO.

After we use compressed air to winterize, we go back around and open each faucet, LPD etc. one more time , starting high and ending up with the low-point drains which send water out the bottom of the trailer.

"Measure twice, cut once!"

Peter
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:01 PM   #4
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Did you get the water out of the water pump? Even though you blow the water lines here will still be residual water in the pipes near the water pump
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
Bypass the water heater, and run RV antifreeze through the system. Make sure you dump some antifreeze down the drains, as well.
I have bypassed the the water heater and filled the water lines with antifreeze. The two lines in the photo ( hot and cold lines ) are located on the water heater side of the bypass valves. So there's no way to fill them with antifreeze without filling the water heater tank too.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:19 PM   #6
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We don't use antifreeze in the supply plumbing FWIW. Totally unnecessary, but you do have to be careful with all the details.

Have you also opened all the low-point drains [LPD], and let compressed air run through them? The manual should have something on this. We have 2 hot and 2 cold LPD. It sounds as if you correctly removed the drain plug at the bottom of the water heater [accessed from exterior door/hatch to mechanical space].

Have you drained/cleaned the filter by the pump, and blown air [by mouth] back into the supply pipe coming from the water tank? [This is a detail most miss -- not necessary on all AS but good to know about IMO.]

In your photo, if you used compressed air to empty the water heater tank, removed the bottom drain plug, and then blew more air through, there should not be any water left to freeze in the low point P-trap-ish setup you asked about IMO.

After we use compressed air to winterize, we go back around and open each faucet, LPD etc. one more time , starting high and ending up with the low-point drains which send water out the bottom of the trailer.

"Measure twice, cut once!"

Peter
I've done everything by the book. Lines were drained ( 2 LPDS ) and 2 drains at the front of the trailer. Water heater drain plug removed and water drained. Water pump disconnected and drained. Compressed air for about half an hour.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:25 PM   #7
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Well sounds like everything is good. I would call service department at the dealer or at the factory; especially since it is a 2018.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
We don't use antifreeze in the supply plumbing FWIW. Totally unnecessary, but you do have to be careful with all the details.

Have you also opened all the low-point drains [LPD], and let compressed air run through them? The manual should have something on this. We have 2 hot and 2 cold LPD. It sounds as if you correctly removed the drain plug at the bottom of the water heater [accessed from exterior door/hatch to mechanical space].

Have you drained/cleaned the filter by the pump, and blown air [by mouth] back into the supply pipe coming from the water tank? [This is a detail most miss -- not necessary on all AS but good to know about IMO.]

In your photo, if you used compressed air to empty the water heater tank, removed the bottom drain plug, and then blew more air through, there should not be any water left to freeze in the low point P-trap-ish setup you asked about IMO.

After we use compressed air to winterize, we go back around and open each faucet, LPD etc. one more time , starting high and ending up with the low-point drains which send water out the bottom of the trailer.

"Measure twice, cut once!"

Peter
The Owners Manual had an extra precaution page for adding antifreeze to the lines. We live in Wyoming where it gets very cold. Last year, our first winter with the Sport, got down to -30. Followed the same procedures as this year. Nothing was damaged this Spring. Must have done things correctly. But I don't recall hearing any gurgling in the tank while blowing it out last year.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:35 PM   #9
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My guess you will be OK. Pex tubing expands some, and unless there is a lot of water should it freeze it will expand side ways first. Is disconcerting though.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:36 PM   #10
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Did you get the water out of the water pump? Even though you blow the water lines here will still be residual water in the pipes near the water pump
I disconnected the inlet and outlet side of the pump and ran the pump to dicharge about a cup of water. Also removed the small filter between the pump and water tank. Cleaned the filter.
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:45 PM   #11
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If you are unsure about the two lines going into the water heater, you could open the bypass valves and let the antifreeze that is already in the other pipe drain/backflow (by gravity) into the HW tank. Remove the drain plug from the HW tank again to see if pink runs out. If it does you know any remaining water has been flushed through.
No need to add more AF into the pipes. Air don't freeze ;-)

ps: don't forget the flexible hose at the kitchen sink sprayer
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:58 PM   #12
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Winterizing so soon? Forget what everyone had said...move to a lower elevation near Palm Springs. Being serious, good advise above, especially the posters with a gold rivet by their pin name. How does one get a gold rivet ...streaminwild likes gold.
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Old 08-28-2018, 09:07 PM   #13
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<<snip>> How does one get a gold rivet ...streaminwild likes gold.
for mo-shiny-rivets (and more)
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f138...nts-20812.html
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Old 08-28-2018, 09:08 PM   #14
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I think you are good, I have heard the gurgling noise and have never had a problem winterizing my 16ft.
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Old 08-28-2018, 09:44 PM   #15
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The water heater tank drain is not dead straight on the bottom. Therefore there is always going to be a bit of residual water in the tank. Blowing air into it might be catching a bit on the edge and creating a venturi affect type noise. I always leave my plug open slightly to let water seep by but keep spiders out.


Also, regarding the anti freeze versus just blow out crowd my suggestion is to look at the degree days of where the poster lives and what their average snow fall, sub zero freezing days are - then choose to take their advice or not. I have seen too many folks from Alabama, Florida, or even areas heavily moderated by ocean winds and temperature mass give advice on winterizing a trailer to someone in Montana or Minnesota.



Good luck sorting it out!!!
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:09 PM   #16
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If you are concerned about the water being trapped in the horizontal section.
You could install a 3 way valve in that section. Open it after winterizing to drain the trapped water.
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Old 08-28-2018, 11:30 PM   #17
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You should not have to use air pressure to empty your HW tank. Turn on the bypass and pull the plug in the HW tank. Open the pressure valve and the water will drain out. While this is happening hook up your compressor and blow all the lines. Blow them at least twice and open the low point valves.


I have a 2006 25FB and there is a drain just to the side of the HW tank so I think any water left in any of the lines there will drain away. If you leave a few cups in the HW tank, it won't harm anything. There will be plenty of space for the ice to expand.



AND...I live in Eastern Washington where we experience cold winters with snow. Each year we have many days below freezing with usually 7 or so down in the single digits. Using compressed air works well for me.


The only mistakes I have made is not blowing out the spray nozzle on the kitchen sink. Did that twice if you can believe it. After everything is empty and dry I simply run my water pump dry, go back and blow the lines again, open the LPDs and I am done. More than 12 years using this system and no problems. And yes, I do put the pink stuff in all the traps.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bweybright View Post
The water heater tank drain is not dead straight on the bottom. Therefore there is always going to be a bit of residual water in the tank. Blowing air into it might be catching a bit on the edge and creating a venturi affect type noise. I always leave my plug open slightly to let water seep by but keep spiders out.


Also, regarding the anti freeze versus just blow out crowd my suggestion is to look at the degree days of where the poster lives and what their average snow fall, sub zero freezing days are - then choose to take their advice or not. I have seen too many folks from Alabama, Florida, or even areas heavily moderated by ocean winds and temperature mass give advice on winterizing a trailer to someone in Montana or Minnesota.



Good luck sorting it out!!!
This Airstream lives in northern Wyoming, where it can snow any month of the year. Frost this morning.
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:39 PM   #19
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Ditto everybody above, lots of good advice. I have never used AF and hope that holds.


I let the air run for a while as that it seems to move moisture through to dry out the lines to the LP's.

I start nose up and rear LP's open, opening the each faucet hot, then cold (repeating open close as needed) moving rearward, then changing direction with nose down & forward LP's open, repeat at least once. I have also found that putting my finger over the LP drain for 5 or so seconds and releasing, again again again etc until it’s just a slight mist or dry when I remove my finger. It seems to push the water and moisture out more thoroughly. For the last run, I open just the LP and let it run.


Seems JC plumbed my WH area so that the LP valve was under the WH (and inaccessible) but also had some lines leading to the LP drain uphill. Some simple line realignment with the bubble to ensure all flow was downhill to the LP and life suddenly was much simpler. However this is where I simply run the compressor and open one then the other LP and dry things out.

I should note that while I have plumbed in a diverter valve in the ump house and also keep a Camco hand held pump (for AF… arrrrgh) there for the just in case, I do use a Rigid dual tank compressor if I’m at home but I also carry a small 12VAC inflator in the TT. I have winterized on the road…same process, but just allow a little more time. They can also overheat so may need a breather now and then.

I got to know the idiosyncrasies of my unit they're all different and now understand that my gurgling is just S of the WH near the dinette ell. I do the finger press for 5 minutes H then C back and forth and it usually quiets right down and no more mist at the LP drains.

Check out http://www.airforums.com/forums/f542...127845-97.html post 1353 and the links therein….also some winterization checklists at the end.


good luck and be prepared.


bob
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:43 PM   #20
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Yep, been in Wyoming this time of year before with a trailer.
Am now stupidly going to Glacier for vacation in two weeks.
More to the reason for this thread is that it is funny, now living in western Oregon I did not use the pink last year since the trailer was in a shop where I could apply heat if needed and no long term freeze situations. When living in upstate NY I always applied pink for the two weeks of 8 degree stuff. Glad I don't get that any more!!
Keep in mind this is the reason for my first post. Some parts of the country need the pink...I used to do it. In a moderate or more predictable area this past year I did not.
Hence the- look at where they are from, make your own informed decision then move on.
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