The idea of trying something stupid...

[Toasty's Dad]

In prep for the cold weather, I started this last week end by thoroughly emptying out the freshwater system: dumped and bypassed the water heater, opened the drain valves, opened all tabs, faucets and valves, and drove home on hilly windy roads for 100 miles.

We're taking this puppy out again around the holidays, and it sure would be nice to not have to mess with the whole antifreeze addition, and more importantly, the whole getting the darned stuff OUT of the system again routine.

So, I'll probably borrow a compressor, get a blowout fitting, and blow out the lines, on the assumption that I'll be safe without the pink goo until January.

But thinking as a REALLY lazy guy, it just seems like driving all that way, sloshing those Pex pipes up and down and sideways, would already have virtually done a blowout for me. Could there really be enough water left at this point to actually bust a pipe?

jon

[rickandsandi]

Good day! Driving around up Hill & Dale will not be enough. We too will be camping throughout the winter this year in New England and when we have full hookup we use our water systems since we have heated tanks. However, you MUST drain all the lines between uses. Water has a nasty way of always finding its way to all the low spots and freezing no matter what you do. Another very important thing to do is to get antifreeze in all your traps and toilet! So please do empty all lines and do not forget the spray lines for the toilet and galley sink.

[2airishuman]

hi jon!

how ya been?

these newer units have 'low water valves' on the underside, something the older units usually don't have along with pex not copper...

and the a/s RECOMMENDED approach is basically doing EXACTLY as you have...

in fact they just suggest raising and lowering the tongue jack to clear the lines, so the driving (hill and dale) is certainly adequate.

did you run the water pump and check the screen/bulb for water?

IF you really wanna go the extra step a compressor ISN'T needed...

a simple bicycle hand pump attached to the water inlet adapter (schrader valve) will provide enough air and pressure....

FOR PROLONGED WINTERIZING...

i think liquid in the lines/traps/bowl is useful since it reduces the effects of drying at the joints, valves, pump and so on...

and a 1/2 gallon of vodka would do the trick with no after taste issue! hiccup!

cheers
2air'

[jcanavera]

You also would need to make sure that the water pump has some RV antifreeze in it also. That's why we connect the input to the pump into a hose that is pushed into a bottle of RV anti-freeze. Once you push a little through there, you've protected the pump.

Unless you have a fairly good pressured air line, and run that air for a while, you will not completely blow out all of the water. As others have noted that water droplets will eventually run back to a low point and freeze. My dealer has pointed out that most folks using the standard 12 volt pump cannot generate enough pressure to truly dry out the lines. He blows the lines out when he winterizes, but he uses high pressure and lets the air run through the system long enough to dry out the lines.

I've been winterizing with antifreeze after blowing out the lines with my 12 volt compressor as long as I've owned a travel trailer. This may be a pain but it's the only way to be absolutely sure that you have removed and displaced any residual water.

Normally I'd be winterized by now but I'm heading to Fl. in a couple of weeks. Last night it approached freezing and I set the thermostat to 40 degrees. I also flipped on the electric element on for the water heater. That will minimize any freezing yet keep me from winterizing prior to my departure.

[jdalrymple]

In north AR, for the last ten years and 3 trailers, I have simply drained the fresh water tank (in my AS this means allowing the pump to pump out the tank) and the water heater. I let the pump run dry a moment, and then blow out the remaining water from the lines. I dump pink stuff in the traps, and call it good. This method will no doubt draw lots of fire, but has never let me down. Temps here routinely in the teens at night during Jan and Feb. I generally perfrom this at the campground, when leaving.

[mandolindave]

My friend tried using rum as antifreeze with really bad results. He said his tanks looked like a fuzzy science project after a short while. Maybe vodka would work though. Although I have to wonder what alcohol might do to pumps and seals etc.

[53flyingcloud]

I have one thing to add,
For those of you that have water filters..Remove em till next Spring..

Rickandsandi,
You mention the water wands..Plzs, don't forget the shower wand as well.
I have mention this on another thread but, it's worth mentioning again..Prop ur toilet flipper open with a plastic bottle..Water sits in this area around the neck opening and, could crack the toilet..
I always use an oil-less air compressor that run on 120VAC..
ciao
53FC

[Wayne&Sam]

My manual says to disconnect the lines at the pump and run the pump a bit until it displaces all the water. No pink stuff in waterlines for me- it takes forever to get rid of the taste and odor.

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

You also would need to make sure that the water pump has some RV antifreeze in it also. That's why we connect the input to the pump into a hose that is pushed into a bottle of RV anti-freeze. Once you push a little through there, you've protected the pump.

Unless you have a fairly good pressured air line, and run that air for a while, you will not completely blow out all of the water. As others have noted that water droplets will eventually run back to a low point and freeze. My dealer has pointed out that most folks using the standard 12 volt pump cannot generate enough pressure to truly dry out the lines. He blows the lines out when he winterizes, but he uses high pressure and lets the air run through the system long enough to dry out the lines.

I've been winterizing with antifreeze after blowing out the lines with my 12 volt compressor as long as I've owned a travel trailer. This may be a pain but it's the only way to be absolutely sure that you have removed and displaced any residual water.

Normally I'd be winterized by now but I'm heading to Fl. in a couple of weeks. Last night it approached freezing and I set the thermostat to 40 degrees. I also flipped on the electric element on for the water heater. That will minimize any freezing yet keep me from winterizing prior to my departure.

Jack we haven't winterized yet and have run the furnace to keep the tanks from freezing. Should we also be turning on the hot water heater? Would you travel with the hotwater heater on in winter as well? We do run the furnace for long trips in winter on the road.

[TBRich]

I know, I know...we're in Southern Arizona...and we are really wusses and whine a lot when it comes to cold weather (speaking strictly for myself, you understand). But it's cold if it's below 60..and 50 is like...unbearable!

That having been said, although it's not common, it can freeze here hard enough to break pipes... (The plumbers love it the day after those rare hard freezes because no one's prepared for it.) We don't winterize our AS because we camp in the winter months, but here's what we do if there's a freeze warning on... We set the furnace for about 40 degrees so that it keeps the interior above freezing and supposedly keeps the tanks warm...we open all the cabinets and drawers so the warm air can get into those areas...and we heat the hot water heater up...and the last thing I do before I go to bed is run hot water through the pipes....then I turn off the pump and open the faucets just so there's some expansion room in them just in case...

It beats waking up in the middle of the night and worrying about it for the rest of the night.

TB

[Mrs_RedSHED]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

............ a 1/2 gallon of vodka would do the trick with no after taste issue! hiccup!

This is an intriguing idea! How will my coffee taste in the morning?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Mrs_RedSHED

This is an intriguing idea! How will my coffee taste in the morning?

after the 2nd or 3rd cup...

who cares!

cheers
2air'

hey mandolindave...

the rum may have too high a sugar content OR the alcohol may have dissolved stable floating algae/molds already IN the tank...

i wonder about seals too...

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, all of this information is just baffleing to me; I drain the fresh tank, back my trailer into it's cozy little parking space, and put the battery charger on once a month. Done deal!

[thecatsandi]

Carol,
The water in the heater tank can freeze as well. I spent some of my last trip with both of the running down the road.

[wheel interested]

Thanks Michelle that is something I have not considered. We usually dewinterize and winterize along the way for winter trips from Michigan. If we don't get around to winterizing before a real cold spell I will get the HW heater on too for sure now.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Jack we haven't winterized yet and have run the furnace to keep the tanks from freezing. Should we also be turning on the hot water heater? Would you travel with the hotwater heater on in winter as well? We do run the furnace for long trips in winter on the road.

I turned it on since I know that some of the heat leeches out into the compartment around the heater. In my trailer that includes the city water inlet, the outside faucet and lots of other pipes. It's really not cold enough yet to cause the entire tank contents to freeze. I've been out the last two mornings though to water my new grass and both mornings I've found the hose semi frozen. So obviously smaller amonuts of water (like pipes) might have been frozen right now if I hadn't provided some warmth in the trailer.

Since I've never taken a trip where temps could be below freezing while driving, I'd probably consider draining the tank if that were to occur. I don't know if technically the water heater would run well at all if you were underway. I've heard of some folks who have traveled with the furnace on.

Jack

[thecatsandi]

Well I can tell you mine runs fine. I get the red light of "death" if she fails to light more than three times. I have never had that happen. Additionaly if the furnance fails to light she shuts down and I have to cycle power to get it back on line. I have had that once. I don't have the frunace set very high. Maybe 45-50 while travelling. THis keeps everything from freezing. I checked on my tank heat and found it just pushed down next to my fresh water tank. There was little airflow out the small tube. Since there is no restriction down stream of the tee there is little pushing the air into the tanks. I plan on putting a diversion tab in the duct to push more air dwon there.

[crazylev]

Greetings.

I just winterized last weekend. Opened four low point drain valves, removed the next-to-impossible-to-access HWH drain plug and drained that.

Holding tanks empty???

Blew out lines USING 50 PSI. Don't go to much higher than that.

The PITA for me was that I had to hitch up the AS, pull it on to a stack of four Linx levelers (streetside) to get the small amount of water to run to the end of the water tank where the drain is. I'm guessing since it was a small amount of water, I could have left it in there to freeze, since there was lots of room for it to contract, I thought this was safer. I should have emptied the FWT when the wife asked me "Aren't you going to empty the FWT like you always do before we break camp" DOH!

Before blowing out the lines, I raised and lowered the jack a few times to try and drain as much water as possible before running the air compressor. Don't forget to blow out the black tank rinse, if you have that.

I did make a major breakthrough this year: I unscrewed the translucent filter thing that was attached to the inlet part of the pump. Not only was I able to really get a good look at the shape of the filter, but there was just enought room between the pump and the FWT to now connect the hose that came with the Camco winterizing kit. The other end goes into the antifreeze. The filter thing just unscrews. I thought it was permanenly attached! Another DOH!!

After four seasons, the filter was remarkable clean. Probably because I filter incoming water with a water filter that I replace yearly.

The good: I used only about one gallon and a quart of antifreeze for the lines. I start with the shower, then toilet/sprayer, working my way up front, and repeat. I ran until I saw pink and then a few seconds more.

The great: I did not have to add the antifreeze stuff to the FWT this year!

Of coarse add about a cup to all drains, and don't forget to plug the drains in case of evaporation.

Lastly, I also pull the holding tank valves to get rid a the small amount of water that have gone in them from the blow-out process.

We still have plans to do Thanksgiving out, but we will have electricity. I'll shlepp a few five gallon water jugs. We keep one of those in the shower. We fill the toilet manually. So the only thing for us to rewinterize is the shower drain and the toilet. The campground has a dump, and water to rinse.

Every inch of my life is so planned. If I wasn't so ugly, I should have been in the army and been the coolest four star beer-brewin' general in the whole world.

Jonathan

[Toasty's Dad]

Hi Folks,

I'm the guy who started this thread wondering if I _really_ had to either blow out the freshwater lines or put in the pink stuff to make our little jewel safe for the winter. We'd already opened every valve, dumped the water heater, opened all the drains and then driven 100 miles over hill and dale with it all wide open. I just couldn't understand how a significant amount of water could remain in the lines after that.

So here's a datapoint that might be considered a word of warning:

Just to be extra-absolutely-sure, we blew out the lines at 45PSI with an air compressor last night, and darned if we didn't get a coupla CUPS of water between the faucets, toilet, and lowpoint drains. That was enough to scare the heck out of me, and we'll be either blowing or pink-gooing our lines from now on.

Scary,
Jon

[InsideOut]

Better safe than sorry...anti-freeze is cheap in the long run!

Shari