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09-18-2017, 11:01 AM
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#1
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New Member
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Crested Butte
, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1
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Not ready to winterize
Hello. We are the new owners of a Flying Cloud 23FB and we live in the mountains of Colorado. The weather forecast is for lows in the upper 20's this weekend. The flying Cloud is parked outside. We are not ready to winterize yet. Will we be alright during this short cold spell? Thanks in advance!
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09-18-2017, 11:16 AM
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#2
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Site Team
2009 25' FB International
2018 27' Globetrotter
Tavares
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,654
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First of all, welcome to the forum. It's good to have you with us.
Unless you plan to keep heat in it (or store it in a heated garage) you should winterize. All it takes is one pipe to break and you will wish you had taken the precaution. A once of prevention is definitely worth the effort. I know from personal experience!
Perhaps an electric heater if you do not want to run the furnace.
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09-18-2017, 11:22 AM
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#3
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Go ahead and winterize. If you have a late-season camping trip planned for later in the year, you can just un-winterize then, and re-winterize when the trip is over.
I live in a part of the country where I can sometimes go a whole winter without having to winterize. But some years I do have to winterize. One winter, I winterized my Airstream FIVE times, because I went on winter camping trips, but then had freezing weather forecast for the times between the trips.
If nothing else, winterizing more than once a year will allow you to get very good at the process, very quickly. Just look at it as a learning experience.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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09-18-2017, 11:26 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Generally it takes a cold night, below freezing, coupled with a freezing condition the day before or after to freeze a trailer. If you are looking at below freezing temperatures for over 12 hours I would and do not winterize.
Keep in mind it is the latent heat of fusion that in effect protects you during those short cycles.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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09-18-2017, 12:48 PM
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#5
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
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Hi
As much as temperature matters, there are other variables like wind and the duration of the cold snap that also contribute. There are things like the pressure regulator that can get "hit" fairly quickly if the wind blows the right way. The fill line to the fresh water tank is another vulnerable item if the fresh water was just topped off.
Net result is "how lucky do you feel?". It's easy for me, sitting here with the forecast in the 80's for highs and 70's for lows to put off winterizing. I'd suggest it's probably time for you to get going.
Bob
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09-18-2017, 02:37 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dajlaw
Hello. We are the new owners of a Flying Cloud 23FB and we live in the mountains of Colorado. The weather forecast is for lows in the upper 20's this weekend. The flying Cloud is parked outside. We are not ready to winterize yet. Will we be alright during this short cold spell? Thanks in advance!
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A chain is as strong as its weakest link. In your Airstream, one weak link freeze-up inside a wall or other hidden spot will render the plumbing useless.
Under the circumstances you describe I would winterize.
Might you get away with not winterizing? Yes.
But why risk it? Once you get the hang of it winterizing takes a couple of hours. Living in the mountains of Colorado, you might as well learn the process sooner rather than later, when you have the time to do so at leisurely pace.
When the next cold spell hits without much warning, and you are in a panic to winterize, it will not be as easy to do it correctly with peace of mind.
Never put off until tomorrow what you can accomplish today?
Practice makes perfect?
Good luck,
Peter
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09-18-2017, 03:38 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2005 25' International CCD
Fleetwood
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 687
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Our first year with this 25' Airstream we were still working full time so the Airstream sat by the garage waiting on us to go out weekends. Generally our lowest overnight temperatures were 20 degrees through December. We left the heat on 45 or 50 degrees all the time.
For colder weather in January and February we winterized a little. Instead of putting chemical in our potable water system, we drained it and blew it out with air compressor for January and February.
In retrospect we were pretty lucky 'cause we hadn't gotten the water out of the toilet's flush valve, down beside the toilet where the foot pedal pivots. Lucky it didn't freeze, but we did keep a little heat on throughout all winter months.
Since that winter we've never winterized. Sometimes we move South to warmer weather but we've only had one line freeze in ten years. The wind was howling up the hill, outside temp was 22 degrees. Although we were in it and keeping the trailer 68 degrees with the furnace, water line in the windward wheel well froze. Lucky we noticed, toilet, lav and shower wouldn't run cold water. Opened the cabinets, stuck a space heater blowing into that cavity and the line thawed. We moved off the mountain the next day to warmer temps.
Other times we've dry camped a week of nights down to 19 at night and in the low 50s in the day. Once we had 11 over night. Zero problems in both cases. It was the cold wind blowing under the wheel well that seemed to get us last winter.
I agree with Peter, Howie, Bob and Protagonist, can't afford to be reckless. If we were leaving it unattended, we'd have to take more measures. Since we're with it, in it all the time, we've worked it out so far.
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09-18-2017, 03:49 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2014 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Chelsea
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,792
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If your desire to delay winterizing is because you want to get in another trip or two before you do winterize your trailer then I would run the furnace while the trailer is in your driveway. Set it to 55 degrees or so and you'll be fine. We've spent many days in below freezing temperatures with the furnace running and everything was fine. I would open cabinet doors so that the warm air gets in to those spaces that will have plumbing.
I should add that you should heat the trailer using the furnace and not a space heater since the furnace does send some heat into the belly area to keep the tanks from freezing, a space heater won't do that.
__________________
Bob Martel
WBCCI# 5766
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09-18-2017, 07:56 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnArborBob
If your desire to delay winterizing is because you want to get in another trip or two before you do winterize your trailer then I would run the furnace while the trailer is in your driveway. Set it to 55 degrees or so and you'll be fine. We've spent many days in below freezing temperatures with the furnace running and everything was fine. I would open cabinet doors so that the warm air gets in to those spaces that will have plumbing.
I should add that you should heat the trailer using the furnace and not a space heater since the furnace does send some heat into the belly area to keep the tanks from freezing, a space heater won't do that. [emphasis added]
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Are you positive that your advice applies to the AS under consideration here, a 2017 23FB? I am not personally sure about the heat ducting in that model.
Also, assuring a newcomer that they will be "fine" without knowing the local weather conditions including wind, location, etc. etc.., it seems to me, is asking for trouble all around -- in my personal opinion. A 25 MPH wind, in 25 F weather, can freeze a pipe on the upwind side of the trailer in no time, especially the exterior shower set up, as well as the city water feed and pressure regulator, which may be buried deeply and not in contact with warm air inside.
I would again advise caution here -- and a more conservative approach.
Lastly Bob, are you willing to pay for any repairs because of freeze-ups to this 23FB, if your advice is incorrect?
A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
Good luck,
Peter
PS -- dajlaw, you must have shore power in order to accomplish this without winterizing the pipes. Your batteries will not support this adventure IMO. Please let us know how this turns out.
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09-18-2017, 09:12 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,632
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I would winterize. Water heater inlet and outlet closed, bypass open as part of the process so if you don't want to empty the water heater keep it turned on on propane at night. If you want to run the furnace all night you'll probably need an extension cord for some power because the furnace will pull the batteries down over night.
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09-18-2017, 10:57 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
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Winterize. I just bought RV anti freeze for $4 a gallon at Wal-Mart. Cheap insurance.
Don't forget to drain and bypass the water heater prior to pumping in the anti freeze.
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09-19-2017, 10:22 AM
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#12
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4 Rivet Member
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Temple
, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 286
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Upper 20's - will not freeze assuming warm daytime temps. We use our Airstream almost every month of the year - for colder nights (low 20's) I drain all of the lines including the water heater and heat the interior using electric heat or propane, In Colorado you will need to winterize as temps reach down to the teens, Living in Texas is much easier than when I lived n NW Kansas were the cold winds really get nippy. BTW remember to drain the outside shower. Around here that is what every one breaks at least once.
__________________
2014 Flying Cloud 25FB
2018 Ram 2500; Cummins
Blue Ox WDH
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09-19-2017, 12:46 PM
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#13
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4 Rivet Member
1977 Argosy 28
Euless
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 338
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Winterize as everyone describes, then flush the system before the next trip. I keep my black and grey tanks empty at home and open the dump valves so there is nothing in the waste line to freeze the valves.
__________________
Past President, Vintage Airstream Club, WBCCI # 7291
1977 Argosy 28 Center Bath (CA made) and 2015 Ford F250 6.7 diesel. Used to own 1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 and 2013 Toyota Tundra
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09-19-2017, 01:12 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dajlaw
Hello. We are the new owners of a Flying Cloud 23FB and we live in the mountains of Colorado. The weather forecast is for lows in the upper 20's this weekend. The flying Cloud is parked outside. We are not ready to winterize yet. Will we be alright during this short cold spell? Thanks in advance!
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Are you catching all this?
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09-19-2017, 02:58 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista
, California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
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You could blow it out with air, for an easy quick temporary precaution, and keep the heat on, should be fine as long as it's not an extended freeze
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09-19-2017, 03:15 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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Not ready to winterize
I would winterize to be safe. We live on the front range in Colorado and one low night can cause a feeeze in outside pipes and in campers. I know this from
Experience. You can never predict how cold or For how long it will get.
I personally will never use RV anti freeze in the potable water system again. I plan to drain and blow out with air compressor. This past winter we used RV antifreeze and it took many flushes and bleaching to get the taste out. Never again.
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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09-19-2017, 03:32 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1995 25' Excella
xxxxx
, xxxxxx
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibbs
You could blow it out with air, for an easy quick temporary precaution, and keep the heat on, should be fine as long as it's not an extended freeze
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That is exactly what I would do.
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09-19-2017, 08:46 PM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
2005 25' Safari
Albuquerque
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 159
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Alternate RV Antifreze
Cheap vodka is pricier ($10/1.75L), but leaves no taste. And you can drink it in the spring!
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09-19-2017, 10:24 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Excella 500
Genoa
, Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead59
Cheap vodka is pricier ($10/1.75L), but leaves no taste. And you can drink it in the spring!
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Actually, it tastes pretty awful in the spring, but I probably have some sections of copper pipe in the mix of plumbing. But it sure is better than that red stuff, one or two flushes and it's gone. In the fall I blow out all the lines with a air pressure nozzle held onto the garden hose fill line until there's just a fog coming out each faucet, do one at a time. Then I blow in vodka until I get some fodka inst da cup at eaach faucet an toilet and suress to turn ofss ze pilot lites ans it's done. Less than one fifth. Oh, have to drain the hot water tank first and turn the by pass valves by the water heater. Have no idea about those new models, they sound way too complecated :
__________________
I admit to being powerless over housecleaning and social niceities
Airforums 22655 and now, WBCCI 22655
NevadaGeo
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09-21-2017, 06:21 AM
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#20
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
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Hi
With vodka I would be a bit concerned that there is a gasket somewhere that is not happy with ethanol. You run into that problem converting fuel systems to run on high ethanol gas.
Bob
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