health effects of antifreeze?

[jeff&jess]

We are full-timers in Alpine, Texas. It froze last night (28 degF), and will again tonight (17 degF), which is what brings me here today. This is our first winter and so we wrapped the feed hose yesterday when we pulled in to Alpine, but that was all. Don't know any effects of last night yet. Haven't had the furnace on, just space heaters, because the furnace makes a very loud rattle whenever on, and we had other upgrades/repairs going on, so we haven't addressed that yet.

So I've been reading the forums today and the nagging background question is: DRINKING/ COOKING WITH / SHOWERING IN ANTIFREEZE????

When we bought this '74 Sovereign in June, there was a horrible antifreeze smell coming out of any running water, and it took me a while to get rid of it with flushing, but I still suspect traces. I'm somewhat chemically sensitive- the first manifestation is a bad instant headache with most solvents, synthetic fragrances and the like. So some might be thinking "primadonna," but haven't we heard in the news of antifreeze killing dogs and cats? (My ex mother-in-law used to do that on purpose, the weird odd woman, but that's another forum.)

Someone mentioned rock salt in a tank in Canada.... Anyone know more?

Cold in Alpine...
Jessie

[str8strm]

do a search and you will find a lot of information. Just recently someone posted that rather than using the "RV" antifreeze he uses cheap vodka. that sounds like a better alternative to me but we don't need it where we live

[markdoane]

Jessie,

There is a very big difference in the chemical compounds* used to make automotive antifreeze (kills dogs, cats, and people), and the type that is called RV antifreeze. If you have any doubt about the type that was used in your trailer, treat it as the poisionous type.

It can kill you.

*actually, one is ethylene glycol and the other is propylene glycol. Not much different, but still enough to kill you if ingested.

[jeff&jess]

Probably more expensive, assuming it may require more of the substance to keep water above 32 degF, though I don't know. (I could pull out my chem book and do something with my calculator and "moles" of the substance required.... but I won't.) Definitely preferred. I'll try it. Thanks. Meanwhile tonight I'm also going to use heat tape and try to get the furnace on, and bear the noise it makes. I think I'll also keep it dripping. If alarm bells ring out there with any of this, you're welcome to step in.

Jessie

[markdoane]

Jessie,

We only use gin or vodka here in Minnesota where it gets really cold. Where you live you can use 3.2 beer.

[jeff&jess]

Texas as a whole would never allow such a limit, although many enclaves, including near me, are of the same 3.2 ilk. Minnesota!!! I'm with the "head south" crowd. These freezes are infrequent here, which is part of why we're building a house in Alpine. (so the full-timing will be only part time) Everyone has their own Eden.

[CanoeStream]

It is a long process getting rid of the taste if antifreeze was added to the freshwater tank -- and it is not necessary to put it there in the first place. This tank material is strong and can readily withstand a small layer of ice in the bottom. There are a couple very good 'sticky' threads in the winterizing subforum if a reader wants to look into this further.

[Silvertwinkie]

If you are fulltiming, I would not put any antifreeze in the system, but I would have your furnace fixed, particularly if the furnace is ducted to the tanks.

[bryanl]

Propylene glycol - (Wikipedia) is used in a lot of things and is generally considered safe. It is metabolized into something similar to what your muscles produce when they work. Its a moisturizer with many uses.

ethelyne glycol is a close cousin but its metabolism products are poisonous.

You can find RV antifreeze - potable with propylene glycol - that is scented or otherwise tasteful or you can find some that does not impart taste. The non scented stuff that doesn't have have significant taste is probably what you want to use in your RV plumbing.

[bobchevy89]

Just flush the tank with water. Don't put salt in the tank. does wonders for raising your blood pressure. For your safety and chem sensitivity just use bottle water for drinking and cooking..even the antifreeze that is supposed to be earth friendly still can kill animals. read the warning labels. I've drained all tanks and put cheep cooking oil in the p traps.blow out the water tank with commpresed air with drain open then closed drain,put cooking oil in the toilet let about 2qts get in black tank leave a little in the toilet helps keep the seal from drying out..
Bob

[TomW]

Originally Posted by jeff&jess

...Someone mentioned rock salt in a tank in Canada.... Anyone know more?

IIRC, The rock salt was supposed to be added to the black tank to be dumped at a convenient time into whatever septic system was available when the tank was full.

Then another poster threatened death if someone was to come along and kill all the bacteria in his septic system with salt.

The discussion seemed to trail off at that point.

Tom

[ticki2]

You can also empty the tanks and blow out the water lines with compressed air until the freeze is over . When refilling , a few cups of white vinigar in the fresh water tank eliminates a lot of odors . Also add a little RV antifreeze in the traps . The furnace will protect the plumbing much better than auxilery heaters . Good luck.

PS. It was 65 here today

[steelbird312]

Jesse,
First, RV antifreeze is not poison-period. It is red or pink in color. It is not for use when you are living in the unit, but rather during times of storage.
If the unit ever had the automotive antifreeze in it, most likely, you would have already been very sick. As for the smell, most RV antifreeze has little or no smell. If your unit had smell last fall, it should go in short order if you follow the next bit of advice.
Now, your Airstream was designed to be used in cold weather. The fresh water tank has heat ducted around it from the furnace. The way to be freeze proof during real cold weather is to fill the fresh water tank and unhook the water hose from the trailer and the spigot. Hook back up only to refill the fresh tank. Then, just use water from the tank. Let the black and gray tanks fill up and then empty them as necessary, being sure to do so after a warm shower. That way, the drain hose will get a good rinse.
Enjoy the refreshing winter, it will be so hot again soon!




l

[jeff&jess]

Thanks, everyone. All of your advice was well received by us. Last night we disconnected the hose before bed, closed the tanks, and ran the furnace (the noise actually abated over time.) No problems this morning, we hooked the hose right up and had running water right away. Only thing....

Now (still, from the first freeze two nights ago) the grey tank won't drain when I open it. I know there's water in there. The black tank drains, I just drained it OK but oops no grey to follow it with (so I flushed it many times after the "main" drain.) Two nights ago I had it left open when it froze, but could something still be frozen??? (Sunny, high of 62 today.) Or could the freeze have damaged the tank? I'll search the forums.... Thanks again.

Jessie

[steelbird312]

Jessie,
If it got to 62 today, that would have thawed anything in the gray tank and/or pipes. You say you know there is water in there, the first thing I would do is remove the drain hose, and open the gray valve (that is the auxillary) The turn on the tap in the bathroom and the kitchen, and walk outside to confirm there is nothing running from anywhere. Hopefully, you will see it draining properly from the pipe to the ground. If it isn't, then insure it isn't draining out of the belly pan somewhere. If it is, that would indicate a cracked tank or drain fitting. If it is not draining anywhere with the water running into the drains and the handle pulled on the gray valve, then I suspect you have pulled your handle loose from the valve itself, maybe when it froze the other day? If that is the case, either you or a repairman has a pretty good job ahead of them. It is not an impossible one, however.
Good luck

[GlenCoombe]

Are you getting any restriction when you pull the slide on your grey tank drain? From experience I can tell you that the pull handle can separate from the slide. If it's pulling too easy you may have to rebuild it.
On the anti freeze side we prefer Burbon here in the south. When you dilute it with water and add ice it really is nice!
Personally if I've got to put up with an after taste in my drinking water I'd rather it be something I prefer.
Propane is cheaper and if you insulate your plumbing exposure and open the cabinets on very cold nights you can set the thermostate very low and keep the cold at bay.

[jeff&jess]

Guess what, I wasn't looking carefully enough at my grey tank handle. There was a piece of the fitting on the outflow port which was in the way of completely setting the grey tank handle to "close," i.e. all the way in, and I didn't notice. So no, there was no water in it because it had been draining all the time. Therefore, when the handle was closed, the tank in fact did fill up and then when opened did in fact drain. False alarm!

Jessie