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Old 09-03-2015, 05:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hiho Silver View Post
Attachment 247216Attachment 247217Attachment 247218Attachment 247219

I no nothing about electricity. I had a licensed electrician install a pedestal with a 50 and 30 amp plug. The run from the main panel was almost 200 feet and we used aluminum. This is how it looks, three boxes, one with breakers and the other two have the plugs. Works great. Didn't have an RV pedestal readily available, so took a different route.



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Nice, that is what mine will have, just all in one box.
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Old 09-03-2015, 05:56 PM   #30
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Matthorr - much speculation in assisting you can be put to rest if we knew exactly what pedistal you purchased.

Manufacturer and model, please.


Greg

Siemens TL137UP Talon Temporary Power Outlet Panel Pedestal with a 20, 30, and 50-Amp Receptacle Installed, Unmetered

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Old 09-03-2015, 06:24 PM   #31
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FYI on costs (from Home Depot):
2-2-4-6 AL USE is $1.79/ft (bundled as mobile home feeder)
2-2-2-6 AL USE is $1.97/ft (buying all 4 wires separately)
2-2-2-4 AL USE is $2.03/ft (same)
2-2-2-2 AL USE is $2.12/ft (same)

They don't have Cu USE wire available in the appropriate gauge, but for comparison 3-3-3-5 Cu SER (not rated for direct burial) is $7.84/ft (I assume USE would be similarly priced, maybe a ~10% premium as separate wires).

So the cost range is about $196 to $862+.

(USE = Underground Service Entry, can be direct buried but must be inside conduit inside the crawlspace/basement
SER = Service Entry R - cannot be buried)
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Old 09-03-2015, 07:20 PM   #32
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I just added a parking pad to my backyard to store my trailer. I am going to run full hookups out to it (for convenience and so it can be a guesthouse / AirBnB).
My question is to do with the above statement in your first post.

Before buying and installing the necessary wiring, did you talk to your local county/city or whoever it is that approves changes to housing in your area?

I ask this because in many areas, what you are doing would not be permitted. Some places allow storing a trailer but not hooking it up in a permanent fashion, while other do not allow trailers to even be stored on residential property.

However, I have heard of some that allow full service, including sanitary sewers, and in fact are able to approve installations meant for commercial use, such as yours.

An investment such as you are making certainly deserves to be done in a fully legal manner, right?
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Old 09-03-2015, 07:33 PM   #33
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My question is to do with the above statement in your first post.

Before buying and installing the necessary wiring, did you talk to your local county/city or whoever it is that approves changes to housing in your area?

I ask this because in many areas, what you are doing would not be permitted. Some places allow storing a trailer but not hooking it up in a permanent fashion, while other do not allow trailers to even be stored on residential property.

However, I have heard of some that allow full service, including sanitary sewers, and in fact are able to approve installations meant for commercial use, such as yours.

An investment such as you are making certainly deserves to be done in a fully legal manner, right?
Yes, here it is OK. My last house, no because of HOA rules (unless it is totally hidden from view).
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:32 PM   #34
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Siemens TL137UP Talon Temporary Power Outlet Panel Pedestal with a 20, 30, and 50-Amp Receptacle Installed, Unmetered
This uses a two lugged internal power distribution scheme to connect the outlets through the protecting circuit breakers. Each of the hot incoming wires is connected to one lug.

The 50A outlet uses a double pole circuit breaker (connects to both lugs) to supply power to each of the two hot legs of the outlet while the 30A and 20A outlet circuit breakers are on lugs opposite each other. This means you have to plan for a potential maximum load of 80A (50A + 30A) if all three outlets are powered.

There is no way for this device to disable an outlet when another outlet is used. The only way to disable an outlet is to physically remove its circuit breaker or to remove its feed wire from the circuit breaker.


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Old 09-04-2015, 01:20 AM   #35
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That sounds easier than I thought. It is wired in such a way that you just put it downstream of a big breaker off your main panel and it will work correctly. No need to prevent an outlet from working as you brought enough power for all.

Oh, and the 50 amp draws 25 from each side so it's 25 + 30 on x circuit and the other half 25 + 20 on the y circuit.

I am wiring up an electric car charger and forget that though RVs take 220 in, they only use 120 volts at a time, like a real house. Except maybe electric stoves or water heaters, can't think of any examples of those in an RV though.

Car chargers only use 220 so no need for that neutral wire.

-Randy
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:17 AM   #36
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Oh, and the 50 amp draws 25 from each side so it's 25 + 30 on x circuit and the other half 25 + 20 on the y circuit.

-Randy
The NEC requires that you provide 9600 voltamperes (80a x 120 v) for a single 50a/30a/20a pedestal, so I think Matt and Greg already had the right answer.
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:44 AM   #37
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Oh, and the 50 amp draws 25 from each side so it's 25 + 30 on x circuit and the other half 25 + 20 on the y circuit.
-Randy
The 50A outlet actually supplies 50A + 50A at 120V for a total of 100A. At 240V, it provides only 50A. I'm not sure what the RVs use inside.
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:56 AM   #38
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So, my final analysis is to use a 80A double-pole circuit breaker at the main box. For wiring, 2/0 Al for the two hots and neutral. The ground will be 4 gauge. I'll run individual wires - probably easier to handle than the bundled mobile home feeder, anyway. The price for wire almost doubles but the extra $220 is not too bad in the big picture.

This provides plenty of extra worst-case margin so I won't exceed the ampacity of any wire and I also will be able to use all of the power at the pedestal. I can't fit another trailer in the backyard, but if someone wants to buy me a new Land Yacht or International CCD 27FB with 50A service for two ducted ACs (Oyster Ultraleather, please), I want to be prepared
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:57 AM   #39
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One more question - since I need to order the wire pre-cut, how much extra should I order? Any rules of thumb?
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:19 AM   #40
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I wouldn't run the aluminum inside the dwelling, so I would just measure the trench length and add 7 feet at each end (18 inches deep + 48" above ground + 18" in the box).
I would use copper in the crawl space, but you're the homeowner.

And I thought we were using #2 AWG, not 2/0?
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:32 PM   #41
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I wouldn't run the aluminum inside the dwelling, so I would just measure the trench length and add 7 feet at each end (18 inches deep + 48" above ground + 18" in the box).
I would use copper in the crawl space, but you're the homeowner.

And I thought we were using #2 AWG, not 2/0?
#2 AWG is appropriate per the NEC, but there would be high voltage drop at 80A (I think around 4-5% if memory serves). Upsizing to 2/0 keeps the voltage drop to under 3% at max current. This is assuming a 0.9 power factor. Probably a bit over-engineered but not excessive in additional cost.

I would actually be more concerned about having a splice in the wire than aluminum wire in conduit inside the building. My concern may be misplaced, but I think the splice would increase any risk. The wire's insulation is rated to 90C but the max ampacity at 60C (115A) is well over the 80A circuit breaker - so the possibility of overheating is very small.
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:42 PM   #42
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So, my final analysis is to use a 80A double-pole circuit breaker at the main box. For wiring, 2/0 Al for the two hots and neutral. The ground will be 4 gauge. I'll run individual wires - probably easier to handle than the bundled mobile home feeder, anyway. The price for wire almost doubles but the extra $220 is not too bad in the big picture.
Very nice.

Now, document all of this and bring to your local entity responsible for building code inspections and review with them.


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