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Old 10-06-2017, 06:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Atsushi View Post
I made a conceptual plumbing diagram for Airstream. I'm pretty sure that this represents Airstream plumbing system regardless of model or size. If I made errors somewhere, please point them out to me. Thanks!
Hi

Well, never say "always" with Airstream .... rumor has it that some older models don't have both black and gray tanks. Mine is plumbed as you show. Some modern ones apparently (based on posts) have the bathroom sink running into the black water tank. I've never seen that myself, but people claim it's true.

Bob
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:32 AM   #44
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When we left pink antifreeze in our toilet bowl it made a nice pink stain in it. The wife wasn't happy about it and it took some scrubbing and time before we got rid of it. Now we drain the flush line and put some paper towel in it. Then I use Oatey's Plumber's silicone (Lowes) on the gasket to keep it from drying out. (don't use anything that has petroleum products in it.) That's been through 2 winterizations now and the gasket is fine, no pink bowl. Happy wife, happy life.
^
X2


No need to AF the TB....Not only does it stain....it will ruin the seals over time.
AMHIK...changed them twice before noting the cause.
A tablespoon or two of veggie oil has worked fine for the last 5yrs.

I used to pump the pink thru all the lines...now just blow-dry and pink the traps.

Bob
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:29 AM   #45
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We deliberately plumbed our bathroom sink into the black tank when we replumbed the trailer. And, yes, in our club, there are members with new trailers with the bathroom sink plumbed into the black tank.
Grey tanks weren't added to AS until starting sometime in 1973. Early '73's will not have a grey tank, later year ones may or may not. Ours, a '72, did not have a grey tank when we bought her. She has 2 now...

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Old 10-06-2017, 10:31 AM   #46
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Maybe they have improved things since 1984 but in my MH the fresh water tank outlet and drain are not at the bottom, they are on the side so there is always a 1/4" of water in the tank. (Depending on how level you park)
To be safe I drain all I can from everything, blow out the rest with air. Next I put 4 to 6 gallons of RV AF in the fresh water tank and allow the pump to distribute it, including the hot water heater. Next I drain the residual and blow it all out with air one more time.
Yes, in the spring I do some extra flushing to remove the AF residual, but I have never froze a pipe or valve in Upstate NY, and never had a pink toilet. (Except for the ones that came with my home that was built in the 50's)
It costs me $3 x 6= $18 for the AF, but it is less hassle than replacing anything in the spring, or finding some leak I missed when I am on the road.
I understand and agree on 'better safe than sorry'. A quarter inch of water in the fresh water tank won't break it by freezing. (Protagonist, one of our resident engineers explained it in another post.) The valve, however, should be dry. I think my valve is on the side of the tank too, it's just inside the left front wheel. I've not had a problem with not putting any antifreeze in it and we go down to single digits. I just don't like seeing my water "foam" so I make sure I get every bit of it out, as much as possible. Using the T adapter lets me use the pump to push the antifreeze throughout the plumbing.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:01 AM   #47
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I gave up on using AF in the water lines years ago, and only using air as some others have. I also drain the water heater by opening the pressure relief valve and then rear low point drains. I used to remove the hard to get to nylon plug, but have not done that in years. Knock on Aluminum, no leaks or problems come spring!

I'm also very methodical about blowing out lines. When I see that there is just air mixed with the tinyiest mist, I'm done. I do take my time. I also remove and clean the translucent water filter thing just before the pump.

Actually the only problems I have had are with clogged aerators in the springtime. When those are clogged, you might as well buy new ones, since I've never been able to get one that fully functions after trying to clean the tiny openings. This happens after the initial "charge" of the water system and crud gets forced into the airators. I never seem to learn my lesson to remove those during first system fill of season. Fortunately they only cost a few pennies at big box. I should by a dozen.
So here is my question: does anyone else drain their HW heater just using the preasure relief and open low point? Compressed air is blown through everything including HWH by-pass.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:04 AM   #48
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If one does not put enough antifreeze in the bowl and it evaporates all the way dry it will leave a residue, not a stain. The residue can be stubborn to remove. As long as the antifreeze does not dry the pink will not stick. At least that is my experience.
As Bob points out in post #44, the antifreeze can damage the gasket. I think that's what happened to mine. Along with the pink stain, for the following summer, my bowl wouldn't hold water, it slowly leaked out. Bob or someone else posted about antifreeze damaging the seal in another thread, also about other products with petroleum stuff damaging the seal. That winter I prevented the antifreeze from getting in the bowl and used the Oatey plumber's silicone that was recommended by someone. It doesn't attack rubber seals.

The seal is working again, the bowl/valve is not pink and that's now part of my winterization routine. YMMV, all AS are different
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:19 AM   #49
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So here is my question: does anyone else drain their HW heater just using the preasure relief and open low point? Compressed air is blown through everything including HWH by-pass.
I open both low point valves and both sink taps, then close the low point valves and all the other taps except the kitchen hot tap. Then I remove the plug on the water heater and let it drain. I close the kitchen hot tap and blow air into the city water outlet, which should drain the lines into the water heater. Then I put the water heater into bypass and go on to blow out the rest of the lines. (including the inside/outside shower valves and hoses, black tank flush wand, and run the pump until the fresh to pump line is clear.)

After all else is done and closed, before adding antifreeze, I open the low point drains and blow air into the city outlet again, close the low point drains and then pump antifreeze through the T adapter. So far, that's worked for me, no issues. I think the coldest we have been since owning the AS is upper teens, but we can go into minus numbers.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:19 AM   #50
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Air/Anti-freeze why we need both....

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Originally Posted by crazylev View Post
So here is my question: does anyone else drain their HW heater just using the preasure relief and open low point? Compressed air is blown through everything including HWH by-pass.

I havenít tried that, but I did see where a guy on a video installed a small drain valve, and I was thinking of trying that this time. He extended it and was able to just open it by hand without having to squeeze in and remove that nylon plug....
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by crazylev View Post
Actually the only problems I have had are with clogged aerators in the springtime. When those are clogged, you might as well buy new ones, since I've never been able to get one that fully functions after trying to clean the tiny openings. This happens after the initial "charge" of the water system and crud gets forced into the airators. I never seem to learn my lesson to remove those during first system fill of season. Fortunately they only cost a few pennies at big box. I should by a dozen.
So here is my question: does anyone else drain their HW heater just using the preasure relief and open low point? Compressed air is blown through everything including HWH by-pass.
I always pull the aerators before stating the fall ritual. I dont reinstall them until my water is flowing normally in the spring.
I find most of the clogging is from the hot water tank, not the cold.

I use RV AF in my hot water tank because it does have liquid below the drain port. You can get most out with air, but not all of it. Again, more modern gear may have better drainage, in 1984, it did not.
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:03 AM   #52
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Hi

One variable in all this - where is the RV stored? It gets plenty cold each winter out in my driveway. Inside the garage (attached to the house), it rarely (if ever) gets to freezing. If my garage was just 4X it's size, it really would not matter what I did for winterizing ....

Bob
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:15 AM   #53
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I havenít tried that, but I did see where a guy on a video installed a small drain valve, and I was thinking of trying that this time. He extended it and was able to just open it by hand without having to squeeze in and remove that nylon plug....
Installed this......


And blow out with my MacGyver rig & shop compressor....

Bob
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:53 AM   #54
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Iím skeptical of the video and bike pump theory. It seems that this technique would work only for water in the furthest ends of the water line. The additional hose added in the video was dry. It was in essence a reservoir for additional air volume. If there was water in the hose closest to the pump wouldnít that just get pushed down the line but not necessarily out? If thatís the case the system would need many pressurizations to remove all of the water. Did I miss something? Again it would appear to me that for all of the water to be pushed out of the system the volume of air in the system would need to be much larger that just the volume of the system. Iím genuinely curious and not trying to flame anyone.
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:57 AM   #55
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I’m skeptical of the video and bike pump theory. It seems that this technique would work only for water in the furthest ends of the water line. The additional hose added in the video was dry. It was in essence a reservoir for additional air volume. If there was water in the hose closest to the pump wouldn’t that just get pushed down the line but not necessarily out? If that’s the case the system would need many pressurizations to remove all of the water. Did I miss something? Again it would appear to me that for all of the water to be pushed out of the system the volume of air in the system would need to be much larger that just the volume of the system. I’m genuinely curious and not trying to flame anyone.
I think you missed something. You don't need to push all of the water out - that is what low-point drains are for. James used the extra hose to simulate the empty plumbing tubing (after draining) that would now act as an air reservoir. You are only blowing out the small amounts of residual water that may be left in the system after draining.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:25 PM   #56
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Todayís the day to winterize, this being the fourth season for our Classic. I donít use air, just a couple of gallons of pink RV antifreeze (water system safe, rated to -75 F). Four simple steps for our Classic, which has worked well so far:

(1) Drain the fresh water tank.

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(2) Drain the water heater using 2 different points - nylon plug on outside, and inside drain valve (this helps clear the low point on the inlet supply to the water heater.) After emptying, I valve both sides of the WH closed to keep antifreeze out of it.

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(3) Hook up the antifreeze jug to the suction side of the trailer water pump using a special-made tubing connector (this requires some pre-planning to make).

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(4) After removing the drinking water cartridge, turn on the pump to pull antifreeze into the various trailer lines. We open hot and cold water sides to each faucets, shower etc. and run some AF into each P trap to protect them.

No compressed air involved, but there are various ways to effectively winterize. The special made adapter that allows us to pull AF from the bottle straight into the pump is the key. We clean-up any excess AF sitting in the sink as a precaution against staining.

Good luck!

Regards - Ron

p.s. - not advocating one approach over another, just sharing what we do. So far so good...
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