Tragedy! Bambi fell off jacks stands!

[Goin camping]

Sorry for your trailer bit thanks for the heads up.

[Phantom]

UPDATE FROM PHANTOM...
Took trailer to dealer (Woodland in Grand Rapids, MI) on Friday 10/30.
Adjuster to dealer to see trailer on Tues. 11/3.
Check mailed from insurance (Auto Owners) on Thurs. 11/5. Damages: $6545 !
Couldn't ask for better service. Now to see how long to complete the repairs.

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

leaving the TV hooked up is NOT a good idea, unless changing a roadside flat.

and in THAT situation be SURE to release the W/D bar tension and STILL CHOCK the opposite tire x2.
_______________

it is generally better to RAISE the tongue (unhooked) using the tongue jack to almost FULL UP.

then place the JACK near the rear ON the frame rail MARKER, per the factory manual AND the SOP at the service center.

once JACKED UP the trailer will have 3 stable points (frame jack, tongue jack, opposite tire/s (which are chocked on both sides)

((and those 3 points are near the ENDS of the trailer, they are MUCH more stable than using the axle plates for support.))

THEN place a jack STAND, under the axle plate, but NOT touching it....

this is the safety step (jack stand) in case the frame supporting jack should give way.

i would use 2 jack stands for safety supports on each side (like RC's pic), but have a long long trailer.

this is EXACTLY how the factory service center does it,

only they DO in fact RAISE BOTH SIDES with jacks and the tongue...

then use the jack STANDS at the axle plates for safety/bracing on BOTH SIDES.

but they LEAVE the trailers UP on THE JACKS while servicing the hubs/brakes and so on...

obviously one needs a RELIABLE jack and properly rated STANDS too.

picture proof...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/428907-post42.html
______________

bummer about the whoops phantom and thanks for sharing it.

cheers
2air'

Sorry, but there is no way I'am going to balance my trailer on the tongue jack extended out as far as it will go. You can't convince me that would be stronger then sitting on the truck ball.
Jackson Centre may do it that way but they don't have a truck to sit each trailer on, so they have come up with their own way of lifting. I have found many things I would not do the way Jackson Centre does, since I started repairing old trailers.

[Ben4762]

Originally Posted by Shacksman

Sorry, but there is no way I'am going to balance my trailer on the tongue jack extended out as far as it will go. You can't convince me that would be stronger then sitting on the truck ball.
Jackson Centre may do it that way but they don't have a truck to sit each trailer on, so they have come up with their own way of lifting. I have found many things I would not do the way Jackson Centre does, since I started repairing old trailers.

I have a 32' trailer. I agree with you completely. I leave my trailer hooked to the tow vehicle. I jack up one side and do the wheel bearings one wheel at a time and when finished move the jack around to the other side. I can only do one wheel at a time, so why would I want to jack up both sides and create a safety hazard?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Ben4762

I have a 32' trailer. I agree with you completely. I leave my trailer hooked to the tow vehicle. I jack up one side and do the wheel bearings one wheel at a time and when finished move the jack around to the other side. I can only do one wheel at a time, so why would I want to jack up both sides and create a safety hazard?

You can lift 2 wheels at one time, by pulling the tires on one axle up on some 2 X 6's.

When done with the first axle, do the same thing with the other axle.

No lifting, no jacks, no hazards, and very stable even with a high wind.

Andy

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Shacksman

...there is no way I'am going to balance my trailer on the tongue jack extended out as far as it will go. You can't convince me that would be stronger then sitting on the truck ball...

not my task or desire 2 convince u of nething.

besides YOU have a trio of old trailers that need all sorts of queer handling and care.

and the o.p. has a new unit.

but doing extensive MAINTENANCE (on any trailer) while hooked UP/on the ball creates LOTS of issues.

all bad.

the ball/cup/coupler and so on aren't designed to support a suspended trailer AND lift a truck rear end.

and without the w/d bars the tongue weight may SAG the rear suspension on many tow vehicles.

the truck can MOVE, a tire go flat and so on.

and what if u need the truck for a beer, a tim hortons, some ketchup chips or a bag of smarties...??

the tongue jack is rated to MUCH more than the tongue weight,

and RAISING the front means LESS jacking to get a tire off the ground.

and using the tongue jack means the trailer can be LEVEL (front to back) after jacking up the frame.

changing a flat roadside, especially on a multi axle trailer (using a ramp) staying connected is reasonable.

but WHO here leaves the trailer CONNECTED to a tow vehicle for extensive work or prolonged repairs???

(a long quiet pause)

i can't find ne threads titled "install new axles, shell off restoration or full monty, while HOOKED to me truck"
____________

MANY campsites require the tongue jack to SUPPORT the trailer front (extended) and with folks inside.

so strength of the tongue jack isn't an issue.
____________

typically here when a simple thread about 'how to tighten a wingnut' or

a personal report about an accident or whoops is posted,

ALL sorts of "here's what U shoulda done" stuff gets posted.

not my intend 2 do that.
____________

THANKS for the follow up phantom,

hope the repairs go well and post some pictures if ya can...

we love looking at OThER peoples disasters...

cheers
2air'

[LisaP]

So sorry to hear of your accident. Thank you so much for sharing. Yesterday my husband removed one tire. His intention was to remove both and go get new tires. After removing one he changed his mind but the tire was difficult to get back in the wheel well as you said. We have all learned lessons here. Safety first. Thank you again.

[Ben4762]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

You can lift 2 wheels at one time, by pulling the tires on one axle up on some 2 X 6's.

When done with the first axle, do the same thing with the other axle.

No lifting, no jacks, no hazards, and very stable even with a high wind.

Andy

That's true, but I don't like the idea of putting all the trailer weight on two tires and one axle.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Ben4762

That's true, but I don't like the idea of putting all the trailer weight on two tires and one axle.

A couple of hours of tons of weight, "will not hurt" a torsion axle, assuming that it was ok to start with.

The same is true of the tires. Impact loads are usually far greater than dead weight. Again, a couple of hours has not been known to cause any tire damage, unless the tires are ready for the scrap heap.

Andy

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

not my task or desire 2 convince u of nething.

besides YOU have a trio of old trailers that need all sorts of queer handling and care.

and the o.p. has a new unit.

but doing extensive MAINTENANCE (on any trailer) while hooked UP/on the ball creates LOTS of issues.

all bad.

the ball/cup/coupler and so on aren't designed to support a suspended trailer AND lift a truck rear end.

and without the w/d bars the tongue weight may SAG the rear suspension on many tow vehicles.

the truck can MOVE, a tire go flat and so on.

and what if u need the truck for a beer, a tim hortons, some ketchup chips or a bag of smarties...??

the tongue jack is rated to MUCH more than the tongue weight,

and RAISING the front means LESS jacking to get a tire off the ground.

and using the tongue jack means the trailer can be LEVEL (front to back) after jacking up the frame.

changing a flat roadside, especially on a multi axle trailer (using a ramp) staying connected is reasonable.

but WHO here leaves the trailer CONNECTED to a tow vehicle for extensive work or prolonged repairs???

(a long quiet pause)

i can't find ne threads titled "install new axles, shell off restoration or full monty, while HOOKED to me truck"
____________

MANY campsites require the tongue jack to SUPPORT the trailer front (extended) and with folks inside.

so strength of the tongue jack isn't an issue.
____________

typically here when a simple thread about 'how to tighten a wingnut' or

a personal report about an accident or whoops is posted,

ALL sorts of "here's what U shoulda done" stuff gets posted.

not my intend 2 do that.
____________

THANKS for the follow up phantom,

hope the repairs go well and post some pictures if ya can...

we love looking at OThER peoples disasters...

cheers
2air'

Well since you know it all I'll wait till I see your tounge jack post, extended full out, colapsed like a wet noodle when the trailer shifts from an earthquake or nearby tornado and puts all the weight
of the trailer on the post, from an angle, pushing it with the total weight or the trailer, overpowering the 3500 # rating of the only thing between you and the trailer. Then I'll put a big block of wood under my fully closed up jack post, unhook and go for my Tim Horton break where I'll have some buttertarts and wonder who will be there to lift your trailer when the jack is now bent in half.

[richinny]

when working under things, i use jacks for lifting and stands for supporting.

i'm curious if anyone has supported the frame, deflated the tire and still had enough room to remove the tire/wheel. (with good axles)

[Phantom]

PLEASE Gentlemen.... Shacksman & 2air.... let us not bicker...
There is more than one way to skin a cat. Lets just learn, consider all options, use our best judgement and due caution. While I greatly appreciate and respect Andy's tremendous amount of experience and sound advice... I still might raise both wheels to grease the bearings next time. However, I could be MUCH more careful. Better jack stands with wider bases would not have tipped. Wood blocks braced under the rear frame extensions would have prevented disaster. Stabilizers down on blocks would have prevented side shift (I know they are not intended to support the full trailer weight). I wanted to do both sides at the same time to be more efficient in the cleaning-packing process. The front tongue jack WAS extended quite high. Even after the shift and fall... and twist to the jack stem, it was not damaged. But my trailer is very small. We all have slightly different needs and perspectives... Even as to the need for a 'Tim Horton' break... whatever that is!... Wish I have gotten 'before' pics but I was just to upset at the time. Perhaps the dealer took some. More to come when repairs complete.
Be well and thanks to all for the input.
Phantom

[2airishuman]

good follow up phantom.

along with the precautions planned NEXT time around is awareness of WHAT caused the whoops.

raising the bottle JACK after the other side was on a stand.

that 1 or 2 extra pumps AFTER stabilizing was probably the issue.

but you know this already.

cheers
2air'

[ROBERT CROSS]

"Tim Horton's break"???

Known as Tim Ho's in our area...
Tim Hortons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Phantom]

Well the Bambi's back! Picked it up from Woodland Travel on Thursday 11/12.
Just 2 weeks from the date of tragedy. All-in-all at great response and turn-around time thanks to efficient insurance, adjusters, parts ordering and technicians. Overall a pretty good job. I always expect perfection but that is seemingly impossible. The caulk in the rivet seams is much fatter than the factory seems. The under belly pans don't fit very well. Some seam gaps are 1/2", filled with black silicone. Right rear moulding by storage door is now wavy... not smooth or straight. I guess I always expect 'perfect' work., but people, mechanics, parts(?), Airstreams... none are perfect. I hate to complain but am anxious to be on the road. We are packing and will depart on Monday 11/16 for Mammoth Cave, KY. You can follow this winter's travel blog...
Adventures of Phantom & Bunny - Volume 2 - the Southwest. at:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/blog...0-phantom.html

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Well the Bambi's back! Picked it up from Woodland Travel on Thursday 11/12.
Just 2 weeks from the date of tragedy. All-in-all at great response and turn-around time thanks to efficient insurance, adjusters, parts ordering and technicians. Overall a pretty good job. I always expect perfection but that is seemingly impossible. The caulk in the rivet seams is much fatter than the factory seems. The under belly pans don't fit very well. Some seam gaps are 1/2", filled with black silicone. Right rear moulding by storage door is now wavy... not smooth or straight. I guess I always expect 'perfect' work., but people, mechanics, parts(?), Airstreams... none are perfect. I hate to complain but am anxious to be on the road. We are packing and will depart on Monday 11/16 for Mammoth Cave, KY. You can follow this winter's travel blog...
Adventures of Phantom & Bunny - Volume 2 - the Southwest. at:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/blog...0-phantom.html

An Airstream dealer, is a representative of Airstream.

They are supposed to perform whatever repairs that they undertake, equal to, or better, than the factory.

Doing anything less than that equal to, is a dis-service to the trailer owner.

Insurance companies do not get involved with the quality of a dealers work, since the owner picked the shop.

If your not happy with the repairs, "for any reason", you should notify the repairing dealer, and make arrangements to have the repairs corrected to your satisfaction.

Splicing metal side sheets when paid to do the entire sheet, does become insurance company business, when they paid for a complete repair and only a partial repair was made. That borderlines on "fraud".

Sloppy repairs, that can be seen, usually indicte far worse than that, "under the covers".

Pride in workmanship, is slowly escaping the American way of life.

Always insist on having an insurance job, performed to perfection, or else.

Andy