Is the tongue bent?

[gamana]

I never been able to use the jack level since I got my AS (3 months old) and been using a carpenter level. I realized yesterday that hitched or not the tongue has a slight lift from the AS to the hitch. The photos are hitched with WD bars on. When unhitched, the lift diminishes but still exist.

Is that normal?

if yes, how can I adjust the jack level?

if not, what should I do?

Thanks

[2airishuman]

the pix are loaded such that we can not ENLARGE them with good resolution ...

it takes a few closer shots AND higher resolution,

to offer much that's useful.

YES the A frame can bow/bend

it's a regular thing on ANY of the longer larger streams...

read some here, stopping before post #78 ...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ion-35237.html

"bent" however is not common but can happen.

there are easy clues to what's happening, WHILE it's happening...

and ways to measure the deflection, that is there.

post more revealing pics at least 1000x1000 and some closer shots.

and read this thread n look at the pix...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396...ers-57860.html
_______

2 paraphrase one of the MOST IMPORTANT notes in that thread...

it's not your fault, don't believe those who blame you, it's the product.

cheers
2air'

[Mexray]

I didn't go to the other links mentioned, but I believe you can adjust the level itself on the jack - as least I can on ours, and aftermarket elec jack I installed as a replacement...this is how I did it on our AS...

1. find a level roadway to park the AS

2. level the trailer using the jack - measure carefully between the ground and the lower belt line - check using a carpenters level inside the trailer along the floor to confirm it's true..

3. adjust the level on the jack to show the bubble is level - usually there are three screws on the level for this adjustment

Ray

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by gamana

I never been able to use the jack level since I got my AS (3 months old) and been using a carpenter level. I realized yesterday that hitched or not the tongue has a slight lift from the AS to the hitch. The photos are hitched with WD bars on. When unhitched, the lift diminishes but still exist.

Is that normal?

if yes, how can I adjust the jack level?

if not, what should I do?

Thanks

What brand and rating hitch bars are you using, and what is the exact description of your tow vehicle.

Andy

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by gamana

I never been able to use the jack level since I got my AS (3 months old) and been using a carpenter level. I realized yesterday that hitched or not the tongue has a slight lift from the AS to the hitch. The photos are hitched with WD bars on. When unhitched, the lift diminishes but still exist.

Is that normal?

if yes, how can I adjust the jack level?

if not, what should I do?

Thanks

Can't be sure due to the small picture, but I'm looking at your hitch ball. It appears to be angled FORWARD. I think it looks like an adjustable hitch - Reese Dual Cam. Instead of worrying about the trailer, think about adjusting your hitch ball to be straight up and down, or lean back a tiny bit. If I am guessing right about the hitch, there are two big bolts that adjust the ball height - but they can also adjust the pitch. Loosen both - the top more than the bottom and push the top back - there are teeth to hold the angle so make sure you loosen at least 1/8" - move the head of the ball backward at least five teeth - maybe more.

Hope that helps.

[2airishuman]

actually it's one of these...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ide-57179.html

towed with one of these

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-on-62347.html

after giving up on these 2 ideas...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ter-63041.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-it-61232.html

SO it's an appropriately sized tv AND a top quality hitch...

the problem IS the a/s frame and overall trailer weight.

the bubble level IS adjustable as mexray describes.


cheers
2air'

[Inland RV Center, In]

It appears from your photo, that the LPG cover is leaning rearward, at least when it's compared to station "zero".

That suggests, that the A-frame is bent the same way.

However, I cannot tell if the LPB bottle cover, is mounted correctly.

Andy

[Jim Foster]

When I adjusted the level on our trailer, I put a frying pan on the stove, and put a small level in the pan, and adjusted to that. That way when you fry eggs, they stay in the center of the pan. I just hate it when the stove isn't level.

That should be close enough for anything else that needs to be level or nearly level.

Just my way.

[mutcth]

Curious questions for future use (if an upgrade comes) based on reading various threads:

Are the various bowing/bending and skin cracking issues mostly attributed to 2005+ 25' and up trailers? Although I've read that the 23's have a less hefty frame, I see fewer posted issues there (disregarding the issue-prone 22' trailers.)

I'm also wondering why there are few complaints about this with the 80s and 90s 25'+ trailers, even though they often had a front panoramic window. Is there a structural quality difference (I know there is a frame width difference up to mid-90s compared to a modern 25'+), or is it a matter of reporting (a lot more folks own newer trailers and post about problems)?

Tom

[2airishuman]

look at the reliable tables showing gvwr and tongue weights...

look at the reliable tables showing these values OVER the last 30 years.

~27 years ago units started exceeding 6000 lbs AND 600 lbs at the tongue.

when LONGER units moved significantly past 6000/600 the front end stuff started.

in addition the front HOLD down plates began to disappear...

and other key elements of how shells were attached to frames changed.

it is a progressive issue over the last 25 years, or from ~'85 onward.

while weights continued to climb, rivet and bolts were reduced.

wide bods (and outriggers) may have added to this mess.

and so on.
_________

a modern 23 should NOT often have these problems...

27 and up, well that's where the issues develop...

moving the entry door back might help, as might fewer windows and storage HOLES with doors.

but that's ignoring the primary problem while applying bondo and pushing units out.

the A frames can be seen to flex/bow on most longer newer units, even withOUT w/d tension.

these are fat cats with wimpy bones.
______

most will NOT be aware of these issues without DIGGING into the structure...

here's an example of this (see post #29 below)

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...tml#post736978

and the SOLUTION fabricated diy (see post #53)

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...tml#post740191

cheers
2air'

[gamana]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

What brand and rating hitch bars are you using, and what is the exact description of your tow vehicle.

Andy

The hitch is a Propride with 1,000 rating for the bars.

The two vehicle is a 2011 F350 crew and long bed.

[gamana]

hope it's better

[gamana]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

actually it's one of these...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ide-57179.html

towed with one of these

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-on-62347.html

after giving up on these 2 ideas...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ter-63041.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-it-61232.html

SO it's an appropriately sized tv AND a top quality hitch...

the problem IS the a/s frame and overall trailer weight.

the bubble level IS adjustable as mexray describes.


cheers
2air'

All accurate 2air.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by gamana

The hitch is a Propride with 1,000 rating for the bars.

The two vehicle is a 2011 F350 crew and long bed.

There's your answer.

Your tow vehicle suspension, has very little give.

Couple that with the 1000 pound hitch, and your Airstream gets a very rough ride.

That, in itself, can cause the A-frame to bend due to severe vibration when your rig hits a bump.

Andy

[gamana]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

It appears from your photo, that the LPG cover is leaning rearward, at least when it's compared to station "zero".

That suggests, that the A-frame is bent the same way.

However, I cannot tell if the LPB bottle cover, is mounted correctly.

Andy

Andy,

the LPG cover is leaning back to to the modification of the battery box to accomodate higher ones. The rearward angle of the cover is more though that the A-frame uplift I am talking about.

The unit is a 2011 27FB International, a month old with a little more than 3,000 miles on it.

[gamana]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

There's your answer.

Your tow vehicle suspension, has very little give.

Couple that with the 1000 pound hitch, and your Airstream gets a very rough ride.

That, in itself, can cause the A-frame to bend due to severe vibration when your rig hits a bump.

Andy

Andy,

it might be the case but, after weeks of reading forums (this one and others) and articles online, it seems like the majority believes that anything less than a 3/4 ton is a minimum to tow a loaded trailer like mine. The pick up versus SUV is for the added cargo space.

If you are right I think Airstream is going to get into trouble by not disclosing those limitations to customers.

Can it be fixed, under warranty of course or the integrity of the chassis/frame is definitively compromised?

[2airishuman]

don't get AHEAD of yourself on this or over react yet...

Originally Posted by gamana

...Can it be fixed, under warranty of course or the integrity of the chassis/frame is definitively compromised?

ok better views/enlargements on the pictures...

clearly some of the lp tank cover tilt is because it's not LEVEL to the A frame...

many are not.

CLOSE UPS of the A frame/shell/skin are needed to see whatswhat.
_________

not sure there IS something that needs to be fixed.

FLEX isn't necessarily = 2 damage

the A frame flexes on these longer rigs.

typing U through the process of inspecting for serious issues at the front...

is time consuming and complicated.

and it only takes 10-15 minutes WITH the trailer

to inspect for signs of too much front end movement/flex.

the earlier links DO cover some of the details, for example,

when the A frame flexes UPward

the trailer skin along the lower front (just above the tongue) will BULGE...

this bulge can be subtle or significant.

it's pretty easy to SEE once one knows what to look for.
_________

2 of us were just walking around the terra port in j/c

looking at customer trailers IN for other service...

we could easily see signs of front end issues

on almost all of the longer units camped there.

had NOTHING to do with what the tow vehicle was being used,

there were a variety of appropriately sized rigs.
___________

IF the front end is "damaged" already (which is doubtful) the a/s factory service center can/will fix it.

they would likely NEED to inspect it or have a reliable dealer/service center inspect it.
_________

the ultimate solution is a stiffer front frame section

or reinforced frame and better shell/frame attachment.

(or make the trailers LIGHTER)

IMPROVING your unit isn't part of the warranty,

in other words a/s isn't gonna pay to make it better.

and the warranty is only 2 years,

so if it is NOT damaged or the damage isn't obvious for a couple of years...

u could be outta' luck.

cheers
2air'

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by gamana

Andy,

it might be the case but, after weeks of reading forums (this one and others) and articles online, it seems like the majority believes that anything less than a 3/4 ton is a minimum to tow a loaded trailer like mine. The pick up versus SUV is for the added cargo space.

If you are right I think Airstream is going to get into trouble by not disclosing those limitations to customers.

Can it be fixed, under warranty of course or the integrity of the chassis/frame is definitively compromised?

Please keep in mind, that thousands of Airtstreams weighing far more than yours, were very successfully towed with large cars.

I personally towed a 31 foot that weighed 8500 pounds.

The auto industry, I personally believe, is the culprit behind, "bigger the better".

Because an Airstream is flexible, it must have a soft ride, or else.

A 3/4 ton long bed truck, with a 1000 pound hitch, to me is total over kill.

Airstream hasn't changed, but the belief that super heavy duty tow vehicles are a "must" is to me, a joke and a half.

A loaded 34 foot trailer, can easily be towed with a properly equipped 1/2 ton truck.

I would be amazed if the bumper of your truck, with the trailer attached,flexed at all. That stress is what is bending the A-frame.

You can beef up the A-frame, not a problem.

But...........watch the problems rapidly increase, as long as you tow with what you have.

Back then, a loaded 31 foot Airstream could easily be towed with a large car, that was properly equipped, using 1000 pound bars.

If a 1/2 ton was used, then the bar rating was drppoed to 750 pounds.

If a 3/4 ton track was used, the bar rating was reduced to 500 pounds, and you hoped for the best.

Now a days, all to many RV and auto dealers preach heavy duty, to the extreme.

It's not my money that's being wasted and abused, it's yours.

RV service centers, in general, support the heavy duty routine, which sounds good to the owner of the Airstream.

But in reality, it sounds "extremely good" to the RV dealer, since they know you will be back again and again, to have needless theings repaired. I do not come from that same school.

Having been directly involved with Airstreams for over 44 years, has allowed me to see and witness many things. Over kill is a huge source of income for a shop.

We see the effects of that almost daily, in our shop. I can assure you, the repair costs mount very quickly.

Airstream's fault?? Not a chance.

Rigging over kill, now your on course for the negative surprises.

Many here, on this Forums, have listened, and many have reported back, that when the softened the trailer ride, they experienced a far better joy in towing, since the trailer was no longer getting pounded, and neither was their butts.

But, as always, the choice is solely up to the individual, as to how wisely they spend or don't spend their hard earned money.

Most people, I still believe, love to spend money on having fun, and not having to pay unnecessary repair bills, especially on something they bought, to have fun with.

If you care to ask the factory about your trailer problem, I would hazard a guess that they will say, that your trailer problem, "is far from a common problem".

Some will disagree, but I don't think anyone will disagree, that owns an RV repair shop.

Andy

[wbrownrr]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Many here, on this Forums, have listened, and many have reported back, that when the softened the trailer ride, they experienced a far better joy in towing, since the trailer was no longer getting pounded, and neither was their butts.


Andy

We softened the ride on our AS by one full link on the chains on the weight distributing bars and are amazed at the improvement in the ride. We just completed a 3,600 mile trip with the new set-up and enjoyed a much smoother ride and no more sheared interior rivets (as we occasionally experienced with our previous set-up). Andy's the man!

[Gene]

You can check the straightness of the tongue with a long straight edge. I have an 8' one that I use for checking how straight 2 x and 1x is. I found it at a Home Depot. You could also use a 4' or better yet, 6' level. The tongue looks bent up from the blown up photos, but that is subjective. Use a long straightedge.

As I understand it, the hitch head should tilt back a bit, not be plumb. Some hitches may have different requirements though.

If you find the tongue is bent, document with photos. Maybe you can clamp a level to it to show it is neither straight nor level. Fixing this is something that may require some discussion and photos are always helpful is proving your case.

Gene