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Old 09-21-2010, 06:07 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
...In respect to the Reese Dual Cam hitch, I disagree with the above statement, even if the manufacturer does state it.

The real thing that the Dual Cam hitch needs to work at reducing sway is WEIGHT on the ends of the bars and cams...
no argument on this end with your view...

weight, force, tension, squeeze...what ever the term i agree.

but the manufactures METHOD of conveying this setup/concept is by estimating bar movement/flex/bend...

i don't recall either manufacturer U mention suggesting front axle scale reading are important...

however LIKE sean the tech support folks at both reese and e'q base bar/hitch rating on TONGUE WEIGHT...

not some silly notion of floppy ride qualities.

see post #44 here and the typical reply a few posts later...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...tml#post302965

and post #22 earlier in the same thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...tml#post302398

in fact read a BUNCH of that 4 year old thread for relevancy here n now ....

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:06 PM   #58
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It's threads like this that make me want to ditch all the fancy hitch'n and run bare ball on a 1 ton crew cab long bed truck.

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Old 09-21-2010, 07:35 PM   #59
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It's threads like this that make me want to ditch all the fancy hitch'n and run bare ball on a 1 ton crew cab long bed truck.

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I'm sure you could if you put a long bed on the truck in your avatar.
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:06 PM   #60
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Andy,

It may be helpful to clarify your position on the lighter bars. You have probably done this elsewhere but this thread may be more complete with stating your position.

I think many people I have talked to believe you just recommend light bars regardless of the weight distributed.

I believe you recommend the lightest bar that distributes the required amount of weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle but I could be wrong.

Which is it?
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:21 AM   #61
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Andy,

It may be helpful to clarify your position on the lighter bars. You have probably done this elsewhere but this thread may be more complete with stating your position.

I think many people I have talked to believe you just recommend light bars regardless of the weight distributed.

I believe you recommend the lightest bar that distributes the required amount of weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle but I could be wrong.

Which is it?
The heavier duty tow vehicle, the lighter the bars, for the same trailer, generally speaking.

Each situation stands by itself as to "exactly" what to do.

This is not an opinion, but fact based on 44 years of doing Airstream shop work, dealing with thousands of Airstream owners, throughout the country, along with being the only Special Representative of the former Caravanner Insurance company.

People change, Pyhsics does not.

Arguments will continue, no matter what someone may say, or demonstrate.

Frankly, I have far better things to do, than argue about anything.

Andy
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by newroswell View Post
It's threads like this that make me want to ditch all the fancy hitch'n and run bare ball on a 1 ton crew cab long bed truck.

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Thats what I do, you will get used to being called an idiot. Adios, John
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:09 AM   #63
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Interesting discussion at the limits of my brain. I'm so glad I didn't study engineering.

But is the tongue bent? Walking up to ours today, our tongue looked bent, and I'm sure the propane covers tilting back make it look that way—an optical delusion.

Gene
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:50 AM   #64
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Hi, I brought this up once before and here are my pictures showing my trailer leveled by measuring the rear frame near the bumper and matching that measurement at the frame as close to the body as possible. Then a third measurement close to the tongue and it was about 1/2" higher.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:27 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
The heavier duty tow vehicle, the lighter the bars, for the same trailer, generally speaking.

Each situation stands by itself as to "exactly" what to do.

This is not an opinion, but fact based on 44 years of doing Airstream shop work, dealing with thousands of Airstream owners, throughout the country, along with being the only Special Representative of the former Caravanner Insurance company.

People change, Pyhsics does not.

Arguments will continue, no matter what someone may say, or demonstrate.

Frankly, I have far better things to do, than argue about anything.

Andy

I hope you don't think I am arguing about this. I'm just trying to clarify the "lighter bar" recommendation. I must not have asked the question properly because I received the same answer. That is, lighter bars for heavier tow vehicles.

Let me ask it this way.

What do you recommend for weight distribution?




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Old 09-22-2010, 10:22 AM   #66
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Diesel1 & newroswell: you are not alone! I towed a Bunkhouse around for 3 years with a Chevy 2500HD with NO weight distribution, (incuding a trip to Alaska), with no consequences whatsoever.....it even sat there nice and level (I think the simple hitch had about a 4" drop). However, since hindsight is 20/20, given today's legal climate, I regret not using some sway control....(had I been involved in an accident, it would have sounded better at the hearing).
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:27 AM   #67
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I hope you don't think I am arguing about this. I'm just trying to clarify the "lighter bar" recommendation. I must not have asked the question properly because I received the same answer. That is, lighter bars for heavier tow vehicles.

Let me ask it this way.

What do you recommend for weight distribution?
-
I/we recommend a load equalizing hitch that uses a torsion principal for sway control, that has bars that bend even with a moderate load.

Load equalizing hitches, have in some ways improved, according to the manufacturers of them, that are much more costly than some load equalizing hitches of the past.

The question of "cost" all to many times, comes into the picture as to an owners choice.

We still today, have some load equalizing hitches that use bars that bend about as much as a "railroad track". Bars that don't easily bend, when under load, typically cause a "rough ride" for an Airstream trailer. It is those bars, especially when the weight rating used by some owners, is out of sight, that causes damages to the trailer.

Trucks are designed to carry some weight at the rear. The amount of "tongue weight" that then must be redistributed on a truck, is very different from a car.

As an example, if a tongue weight of 1000 pounds was the issue, only a portion of that should or needs to be redistributed, when using a truck, as a tow vehicle, or a heavy duty vehicle that has stiff suspension. Therefore a lighter load equalizing bar can be used that will also provide less transfer of road shock, thru the heavier suspension system of the truck, as opposed to a car.

That then accomplishes three things.

1. An adequate portion of the tongue weight is redistributed.
2. Less road shock is transfered to the trailer.
3. A torsion type sway control, because of the addition bar bend, will perform as it should.

Sway controls should always be used, that have a brain. Friction type sway controls exercise as much force when the rig wants to get out of a straight line, as well as when that rig wants to get back into a straight line. Torsion type sway controls, seek to minimize the torsion at all times, therefore seek the least amount of torsion that they can, which helps the rig to get back into a straight line, as well as keeping it there, even up to a point of when the driver lets go of the steering wheel.

The most amazing thing about load equalizing hitches, is the vast amount of opinions that are offered, as to why or why not.

An owner has no problem spending upwards of $100,000.00 (one hundred thousand) dollars on an Airstream trailer, $40,000.00 to $50,000.00 on a tow vehicle, and then sometimes rants and raves about the cost of a load equalizing hitch with sway control. That's something that I will never understand, since I have been well trained about safety.

Again, the heavier duty the tow vehicle, the lighter rating rating torsion bars can be successfully used. Yes, that sort of doesn't make sense, but it does when a heavier duty tow vehicle is used. The heavier the duty, the lighter bars can be safely used.

Now, if someone wants to use a Peterbilt truck, to tow their 34 foot Airstream, then I would agree that a load equalizing hitch may not be needed. We all read stories about a semi-truck crashing because it lost control.

That goes against the theory that trucks are a "magic" tow vehicle.

I wonder why?

Load equalizing hitches are not like the "stock market". The proper load equalizing hitch, will always pay dividends. That's something the stock market can never say or guarantee.

Yes, there are many that will "nix" the value of a proper full sway control load equalizing hitch. Same as there is those that drive when drunk, or text, or use the cell phones.

NAH, it can't happen to me!!!! WRONG.

Bet me.

Andy
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:45 AM   #68
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This a little reminder that the original question was "Is the tongue bent?".

This thread does not need to turn into another weight distribution debate. There are plenty of threads on that subject.
Weight distribution may be a factor is this subject but it is not the whole topic.

Please keep on topic.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:50 AM   #69
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I think the thread is "about the cause" of bent A-frames.

Certainly, it's either because of incorrect use of load equalizing hitches, or lets blame Airstream.

Andy
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:57 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
.................................................. ..

This is not an opinion, but fact based on 44 years of doing Airstream shop work, dealing with thousands of Airstream owners, throughout the country, along with being the only Special Representative of the former Caravanner Insurance company.

.................................................. .............................

Frankly, I have far better things to do, than argue about anything.

Andy
Andy,

I have some bad news for you.

You cannot base a fact on experience or observation no matter over how long a period you do it. What you have done is come up with an hypothesis of what seems most likely to you and defined that to be a fact. That is the best you can do until you have used sound accepted engineering and scientific practices to prove your hypothesis to be correct. You have not shown us that you have done this is any manner.

More than one person, involved in the design and manufacturing of hitches and associated equipment has either stated (or been quoted as saying) things that make your hypothesis of lighter bars for heavier tow vehicles not only incorrect, but improper use of their equipment. I believe it is a very safe assumption that these people have either done or seen the drawings and calculations involve in these hitch system's design.

This is not the only subject on which you recommend that people not follow manufacturer's recommendations, but instead rely on your recommendations.

Your attempts to establish yourself as the ultimate authority may well have unforeseen consequences. You have a business and when you post on these forums as a vendor, you are speaking as a representative of that business.

I know of one thread when it is stated that you recommended WD bars rated at less that the trailers published tongue weight. One of those bars ultimately broke in two. Luckily it happened entering a parking lot and not on a big pothole in the interstate.

Are you willing to find yourself holding the bag, when something catastrophic happens and the manufacturer says his equipment was not used properly and your business was the one who recommended it.

I am a firm believer in reading the manual that comes with a piece of equipment and then following it and knowing that if I do something contradictory to it I am on my own.

As I see it, you are taking it on yourself to tell your customers and the members of this forum to use what you recommend not what the manufacturers recommend. Keep in mind that when you post things on a forum as a vendor, that it will be considered as an opinion of your business not you as an individual.

My posting in regard to this is to further my belief that the procedures and directions that come from the manufacturer of a piece of equipment, are the only ones to follow, until something else is PROVEN to be better or safer.

Regards,
Ken
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