Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-19-2010, 09:22 PM   #15
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 27' FB International
Miami , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
It appears from your photo, that the LPG cover is leaning rearward, at least when it's compared to station "zero".

That suggests, that the A-frame is bent the same way.

However, I cannot tell if the LPB bottle cover, is mounted correctly.

Andy
Andy,

the LPG cover is leaning back to to the modification of the battery box to accomodate higher ones. The rearward angle of the cover is more though that the A-frame uplift I am talking about.

The unit is a 2011 27FB International, a month old with a little more than 3,000 miles on it.
__________________

__________________
gamana is offline  
Old 09-19-2010, 09:32 PM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 27' FB International
Miami , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
There's your answer.

Your tow vehicle suspension, has very little give.

Couple that with the 1000 pound hitch, and your Airstream gets a very rough ride.

That, in itself, can cause the A-frame to bend due to severe vibration when your rig hits a bump.

Andy
Andy,

it might be the case but, after weeks of reading forums (this one and others) and articles online, it seems like the majority believes that anything less than a 3/4 ton is a minimum to tow a loaded trailer like mine. The pick up versus SUV is for the added cargo space.

If you are right I think Airstream is going to get into trouble by not disclosing those limitations to customers.

Can it be fixed, under warranty of course or the integrity of the chassis/frame is definitively compromised?
__________________

__________________
gamana is offline  
Old 09-19-2010, 09:49 PM   #17
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
don't get AHEAD of yourself on this or over react yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamana View Post
...Can it be fixed, under warranty of course or the integrity of the chassis/frame is definitively compromised?
ok better views/enlargements on the pictures...

clearly some of the lp tank cover tilt is because it's not LEVEL to the A frame...

many are not.

CLOSE UPS of the A frame/shell/skin are needed to see whatswhat.
_________

not sure there IS something that needs to be fixed.

FLEX isn't necessarily = 2 damage

the A frame flexes on these longer rigs.

typing U through the process of inspecting for serious issues at the front...

is time consuming and complicated.

and it only takes 10-15 minutes WITH the trailer

to inspect for signs of too much front end movement/flex.

the earlier links DO cover some of the details, for example,

when the A frame flexes UPward

the trailer skin along the lower front (just above the tongue) will BULGE...

this bulge can be subtle or significant.

it's pretty easy to SEE once one knows what to look for.
_________

2 of us were just walking around the terra port in j/c

looking at customer trailers IN for other service...

we could easily see signs of front end issues

on almost all of the longer units camped there.

had NOTHING to do with what the tow vehicle was being used,

there were a variety of appropriately sized rigs.
___________

IF the front end is "damaged" already (which is doubtful) the a/s factory service center can/will fix it.

they would likely NEED to inspect it or have a reliable dealer/service center inspect it.
_________

the ultimate solution is a stiffer front frame section

or reinforced frame and better shell/frame attachment.

(or make the trailers LIGHTER)

IMPROVING your unit isn't part of the warranty,

in other words a/s isn't gonna pay to make it better.

and the warranty is only 2 years,

so if it is NOT damaged or the damage isn't obvious for a couple of years...

u could be outta' luck.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline  
Old 09-19-2010, 10:39 PM   #18
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamana View Post
Andy,

it might be the case but, after weeks of reading forums (this one and others) and articles online, it seems like the majority believes that anything less than a 3/4 ton is a minimum to tow a loaded trailer like mine. The pick up versus SUV is for the added cargo space.

If you are right I think Airstream is going to get into trouble by not disclosing those limitations to customers.

Can it be fixed, under warranty of course or the integrity of the chassis/frame is definitively compromised?
Please keep in mind, that thousands of Airtstreams weighing far more than yours, were very successfully towed with large cars.

I personally towed a 31 foot that weighed 8500 pounds.

The auto industry, I personally believe, is the culprit behind, "bigger the better".

Because an Airstream is flexible, it must have a soft ride, or else.

A 3/4 ton long bed truck, with a 1000 pound hitch, to me is total over kill.

Airstream hasn't changed, but the belief that super heavy duty tow vehicles are a "must" is to me, a joke and a half.

A loaded 34 foot trailer, can easily be towed with a properly equipped 1/2 ton truck.

I would be amazed if the bumper of your truck, with the trailer attached,flexed at all. That stress is what is bending the A-frame.

You can beef up the A-frame, not a problem.

But...........watch the problems rapidly increase, as long as you tow with what you have.

Back then, a loaded 31 foot Airstream could easily be towed with a large car, that was properly equipped, using 1000 pound bars.

If a 1/2 ton was used, then the bar rating was drppoed to 750 pounds.

If a 3/4 ton track was used, the bar rating was reduced to 500 pounds, and you hoped for the best.

Now a days, all to many RV and auto dealers preach heavy duty, to the extreme.

It's not my money that's being wasted and abused, it's yours.

RV service centers, in general, support the heavy duty routine, which sounds good to the owner of the Airstream.

But in reality, it sounds "extremely good" to the RV dealer, since they know you will be back again and again, to have needless theings repaired. I do not come from that same school.

Having been directly involved with Airstreams for over 44 years, has allowed me to see and witness many things. Over kill is a huge source of income for a shop.

We see the effects of that almost daily, in our shop. I can assure you, the repair costs mount very quickly.

Airstream's fault?? Not a chance.

Rigging over kill, now your on course for the negative surprises.

Many here, on this Forums, have listened, and many have reported back, that when the softened the trailer ride, they experienced a far better joy in towing, since the trailer was no longer getting pounded, and neither was their butts.

But, as always, the choice is solely up to the individual, as to how wisely they spend or don't spend their hard earned money.

Most people, I still believe, love to spend money on having fun, and not having to pay unnecessary repair bills, especially on something they bought, to have fun with.

If you care to ask the factory about your trailer problem, I would hazard a guess that they will say, that your trailer problem, "is far from a common problem".

Some will disagree, but I don't think anyone will disagree, that owns an RV repair shop.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline  
Old 09-19-2010, 11:15 PM   #19
4 Rivet Member
 
wbrownrr's Avatar
 
2002 22' International CCD
San Luis Obispo , California
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Many here, on this Forums, have listened, and many have reported back, that when the softened the trailer ride, they experienced a far better joy in towing, since the trailer was no longer getting pounded, and neither was their butts.


Andy
We softened the ride on our AS by one full link on the chains on the weight distributing bars and are amazed at the improvement in the ride. We just completed a 3,600 mile trip with the new set-up and enjoyed a much smoother ride and no more sheared interior rivets (as we occasionally experienced with our previous set-up). Andy's the man!
__________________
Wayne
2002 22' CCD
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi
wbrownrr is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 12:11 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
You can check the straightness of the tongue with a long straight edge. I have an 8' one that I use for checking how straight 2 x and 1x is. I found it at a Home Depot. You could also use a 4' or better yet, 6' level. The tongue looks bent up from the blown up photos, but that is subjective. Use a long straightedge.

As I understand it, the hitch head should tilt back a bit, not be plumb. Some hitches may have different requirements though.

If you find the tongue is bent, document with photos. Maybe you can clamp a level to it to show it is neither straight nor level. Fixing this is something that may require some discussion and photos are always helpful is proving your case.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 05:49 AM   #21
Rivet Master
 
r carl's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin , Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,057
The electric tongue jack looks plumb in both photos and the tank cover isnt plumb to begin with. I would remove that cover and then do your checking of the tongue assembly.
__________________
r carl is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 07:47 AM   #22
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Much of the rhetoric about bar weight on this thread pertains to the Reese square bars which are known for being very stiff, and by the way, the Reese is the brand that Andy of Inland RV sells and pushes. The bars used with the ProPride hitch are round bars and even at 1000 pounds capacity, are much more flexible than the Reese square bars. I just completed a 14,745 mile trip towing a 25 footer with the ProPride hitch, using 1000 pound bars, and towing with a 3/4 ton truck, on some of the worst roads on the continent (Alaska trip), and experienced no bent tongue, or any other damage. Also, the hitch "head" angle on the ProPride hitch is not adjustable.

With respect to 1/2 ton vs larger, towing a smaller 23' trailer, mostly, in 53 thousand miles I totally wore out the pinion bearing in the rear differential. My 3/4 ton now has almost 80 thousand miles, mostly towing, with no repairs done. The 3/4 ton is clearly a better equipped and more durable tow vehicle.

By the time you put 800 pounds of tongue weight, 230 pounds of hitch, 200 pounds of topper, 400 pounds of passengers, 200 pounds of fuel, and another 300 pounds of gear in a 1/2 ton pickup, you are way over the maunfacturer's limits. Will a 1/2 ton do it? Obviously, but for how long, and with what repair bills?

The days of towing trailers with large sedans and station wagons are long gone, because those vehicles simply no longer are available. The station wagon of today is a large SUV.

From looking at the pictures, it appears to me the original poster does have a bent tongue on his Airstream. However, the question is, how did it get bent?

There are many more Airstreams towed today with 3/4 ton trucks than with anything smaller, but this is the first example of one with a bent tongue that I have recently seen. Then there is also the question....how much stiffer is a one ton Ford pickup (what the OP has)than a 3/4 ton?
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 09:23 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
Dave Park's Avatar
 
2005 22' Safari
Hyde Park Place , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 972
I'm going to go against the flow and say I think it's not bent.

The photo was taken from an angle, and not level with the frame. As you look at the photos, you can clearly see both sides of the A frame. From the angle it was taken, it also lines up badly with the trim on the AS shell, which appears lower because it is closer.

If you draw an imaginary line between them, it looks fairly straight.

I think your minds are putting in a much sharper curve than is actually there.

IMHO. YMMV. Going by the photos, without actually seeing it. Not a hitch expert. Please ignore at will. May contain traces of nut.
__________________
TX-16
Dave Park is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 09:45 AM   #24
ProPride, Inc.
Commercial Member
 
Sean Woodruff's Avatar
 
Grand Blanc , Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 618
Send a message via Skype™ to Sean Woodruff
First, the Airstream forum is the only brand forum that there is ever any discussion about "stiff" bars and heavy tow vehicles damaging trailers. My experience with the Airstream brand is that it is a higher quality brand than most, if not all, so I wonder why others don't experience this problem.

Second, a 1000# rating is just that, a RATING. It is the capacity of the bar. I would venture to guess that every 3P-1000 customer has different loads on their bars based on the tongue weight and the carrying capacity of their tow vehicle. The weight distribution jacks can be jacked to the appropriate height to accommodate the REQUIRED weight distribution. A 1 ton tow vehicle will have less load on the bar than a 3/4 ton tow vehicle because it can carry more load.

Will a lighter bar work? It may but it is not a blanket proposition that ALL Airstreams should have lighter bars. I'm not even sure how one can responsibly say that. A lighter bar may not distribute the REQUIRED amount of weight to the front axle for safe towing. However, an adequately rated bar, one rated at or above the trailer tongue weight, WILL adequately distribute the REQUIRED amount of weight and that weight can be reached with the variable adjustment on the 3P weight distribution jacks.

Finally, if one subscribes to the heavy tow vehicle and hitch doing damage to the Airstream I would suggest their is a flaw in the design of the Airstream. An engineered product should be designed to handle the demands of its conditions and loads. I believe Airstream engineers are smart enough to do that. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that they don't know what they are doing and they don't adequately determine the loads that their design needs to handle. Are we really supposed to believe that the design of the Airstream frame is so close to the fault line that a couple hundred pounds of CAPACITY in a bar will bend the frame?

-----

P.S. - I've commented on OVERkill before. I was even deposed in a trailer accident case when the person was OVERkilled in a sway accident because he didn't have an adequate hitch or tow vehicle to handle the sway. Anytime someone starts telling you something is overkill you might want to check their premise. The premise is that their risk tolerance is correct and your risk tolerance is flawed.

-----
__________________
ProPride Hitch
"The Next Generation in Trailer Sway Elimination"
Grand Blanc, MI
Tu ne cede malis
Sean Woodruff is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 09:45 AM   #25
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
If it were mine, I'd check it with a good level.

And that procedure would be to level the trailer with the reference being the floor of the trailer.

With the trailer floor level, then check the level of the tongue. If there is significant difference, then the tongue is probably bent.

Levels don't lie....only their operators.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:38 AM   #26
Don't forget your cat nap
 
Ag&Au's Avatar
 
Port Orchard , Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,464
Images: 1
I don't know if your trailer is constructed in the same manner as mine. If it is, you can get under the front of the trailer and see the inside edge of the A frame all the way back to where it joins to the frame main longitudinal members. Have you looked under there? If the A frame has actually been bent then something should be visible there.

I just went out and looked at my trailer. I found that if I stand fully upright at about where you took your pictures, the visible part of the A frame appears to slope slightly upward. However if I get my eyes down to the same level as the A frame so I can only see the near side, that up bent appearance goes away and it looks fine. Try that.

In other words, I think what you are seeing is an optical illusion caused by the viewers position and accentuated by the lean of the propane bottle cover.

Regards,

Ken

P.S. I am sure this illusion is initially caused by the too stiff WD bars and big truck. My trailer has even bigger bars, but the truck is only 3/4 ton. I am waiting for it to self destruct.
__________________
Ag&Au is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 11:14 AM   #27
4 Rivet Member
 
fmrcaptevil's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Weldon Spring , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 456
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they ALL angled up slightly (I know mine have). We're not talking a huge amount, but enough so that I don't level the trailer by placing a level on the A-frame....found that to be common from Bambi to the Bunkhouse.
__________________
fmrcaptevil is offline  
Old 09-20-2010, 11:36 AM   #28
4 Rivet Member
 
fmrcaptevil's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Weldon Spring , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 456
Just checked it with a level, and not only does it angle up slightly (relative to the main frame), but the two sides don't perfectly agree with each other, either. Also, gamana, I think that the little level on top of your hitch jack is adjustable.
__________________

__________________
fmrcaptevil is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bent Stabilizer Sierrapapa Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 11 11-21-2008 11:54 PM
Tongue weight verses tongue height - level the WD hitch? HowieE Hitches, Couplers & Balls 12 11-17-2007 02:02 PM
axle bent? air66stream Axles 1 10-05-2007 05:12 AM
bent door kcbrady Doors & Locks 3 11-28-2006 06:04 AM
Bent Wheels jim8860 Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 2 03-08-2006 08:17 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.