Seam sealing

[Airwave503]

Here's what I am doing and soliciting any advice anyone wants to offer. After the first rain with inside skins off, I had lots of water. It seemed to be coming in over the tops of the windows so my first action was to clean and re-caulk all the rain guards above the windows with Vulkem 116. This slowed it down but the next rain water was still getting in and I figured out it was seeping in through the curved roof seams front and back and the vertical seams where water gushes off the rain guards and runs right down the seam. After getting advice on what sealants to use and not finding ANY of them locally, I ordered Tempro 535, Aluminum Tinted Gutter Seal, and Parbond from VTS. I spent all weekend cleaning off the seams. There was some grey stuff that had seriously bonded with the shell. I had to use a wire sheet and razor blade to scratch it off. Then I used 320 and 400 grid sand paper to smooth it over. I think I will try HiHoAgRV's approach but I am not sure what sealant to use.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f456...ge-114600.html

Some of my seams are pretty open between rivets, so maybe tempro for those and the gutter seal for the tighter ones?

PS - The Vulkem 116 was a bad choice for the rain guards because the textured finish didn't look good in the first place, and it was still sticky when I was cleaning the roof seams so now it's all speckled and black.

[68 TWind]

I have used Tempro on the seams on my 68 with good luck. After reading a lot and trying several techniques here it the best way I found to get nice looking and sealed seams with Tempro (Vulkem). After ever thing is clean, use blue masking tape and tape off the seams leaving about and 1/8 or so opening right along the seam line. Apply the sealant, not too heavy, and then run you finger over it pressing it into the seam as you pull you finger across the length of the seam. Then go back the other way and press and sealant into the seam. You will be wiping off the excess when you do this as well as forcing it deep into the gaps. Then, immediatley remove the tape! If you pull the tape off right when you finish wiping it into the seam the edges will blend down and you get a really smooth caulk line. If you leave the tape on for a while you will get a ridge at the edge of the tape that is rough and also attracts dirt. Wear old clothes because you WILL get stuff on you no matter how careful you are. I am sure others will have ideas but this "system" works the best for me. I've had lots of practice as my 68 leaked like a you would not believe.

[A W Warn]

I would not use caulking on the metal lapped joints, except when a panel is being replaced.
Acryl-R will seep into those small cracks. It is designed to go into spaces 1/8" and smaller, where caulking will just set on top then peal off later.

I use Trempro 635 around window and doors. I also tape joints, like described above.

[Mulligan]

Hi,
I have done this job twice now, 1st time on a 73 overlander i used a product called Upol Grey stripe, which is a brush on product,

and on my 59 Avion, i wanted to use upol again but the Avions seams had originally be sealed with Bitumen, which did not agree with the upol, so i used a bitumen roof sealant which again was brush on, which makes it easier to get into the seams, you could also look at Captain Tolleys creeping crack cure, No not a joke !! fantastic product, look it up .
Cheers and good luck Tim

[AirEgger]

X2 re Capt Tolleys sealant.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I use Trempro 626 on anything larger than 1/8". That is what Vulkem really was and what airstream used to use in the day. It has a texture and takes a while to actually cure so you probably will not like it since you did not like the Trempro 116 which I have never tried. I used to do the making tape thing but it was more time consuming than just using denatured alcohol to remove the excess.
I use Acryl R on any joint smaller than 1/8".
Since you have all the skins out you might consider using Flex Seal(yes the TV infomercial) on all the seams and rivet tails. Rustolium makes a similar product. I do this in all my restorations weather the seam leaks or not.

[mhilley]

Vote #3 for Captain Tollys Seam Sealant. Although getting hard to find! West Marine did carry it I don't think they still do.

[Airwave503]

Thank you for all the replies.

I went with the Gutter Seal instead of Capt. Tolley's for 2 reasons (both claim to wick into the seams). Gutter Seal is a paste and Aluminum Tinted. Tolley's says it's thinner than water...so how do apply something thinner than water to seams that are on the side where gravity is just going to pull the product away from the seam? One of the reviews on VTS also said it left stains. Am I missing something?

I mis-typed Tempro "535" in my first post, I ordered Tempro 635. Is there any significant difference between that and the Tempro 626 that you guys are referring to?

Last, should I consider doing anything on the inside? I have a lot of black sprayed on stuff that appears to have been applied to seal off the rivets, not the seams. Tempro warns "not to use indoors, even if unoccupied".

[cwf]

For the Capt. Tolley's...Get some curved nozzle syringes like for dental rinsing. You can gently feed the product into the seams.

[perryg114]

I am experimenting with some stuff called Lexel. It is more of a sealant than adhesive. It is clear and for large gaps. I would not use it accept on the roof. It is very UV resistant where Trempro or Parbond is not. Roofers use this stuff and it does not turn hard and peal off like most caulks do. Trempro and Parbond don't last all that long if exposed to sun and heat. Trempro lasted about a year on the skylights on my house. It last longer on the trailer because it does not get as hot and it is usually shaded to some extent. The Trempro on my trailer roof is getting hard after two years and is discolored.

Perry

[Mixter]

I also have my interior skins out, and before rebuilding want to be totally dry. However, I've found the same problem, in that wherever I find water, I seal it up, and next thing you know I've got another leak somewhere else. I've been chasing these leaks since I re-attached the shell to the frame.

I started off drilling out the bucked rivets in the seam, filling the seam with vulkem, then re-bucking new rivets in. Works great, but lots of work I've totally redone many of the seams, but finally reached the point where I feel like I'm chasing unicorns.... I feel like I really need to separate every seam and do that if I'm going to get them all. This is simply not practical and really holding me up on putting this thing back together. I finally contacted Colin Hyde, and asked him for help. He agreed that I'm working too hard and said to scrape any loose areas of the sealant off the inside, then just smear sealant over the whole thing on the inside.

I went to my local industrial adhesive/ sealant supplier and bought a 2 1/2 gallon bucket of the 116. I'm not a fan of the texture for the exterior work, but the inside wont be a problem. I'm excited to get back to work on mine, and hopefully have the final solution to end the water intrusion. I'm going to take a putty knife or brush and just coat every seam and rivet from the inside.

Fingers crossed!
Mic

[reinergirl]

Originally Posted by Mixter

I also have my interior skins out, and before rebuilding want to be totally dry. However, I've found the same problem, in that wherever I find water, I seal it up, and next thing you know I've got another leak somewhere else. I've been chasing these leaks since I re-attached the shell to the frame.

I started off drilling out the bucked rivets in the seam, filling the seam with vulkem, then re-bucking new rivets in. Works great, but lots of work I've totally redone many of the seams, but finally reached the point where I feel like I'm chasing unicorns.... I feel like I really need to separate every seam and do that if I'm going to get them all. This is simply not practical and really holding me up on putting this thing back together. I finally contacted Colin Hyde, and asked him for help. He agreed that I'm working too hard and said to scrape any loose areas of the sealant off the inside, then just smear sealant over the whole thing on the inside.

I went to my local industrial adhesive/ sealant supplier and bought a 2 1/2 gallon bucket of the 116. I'm not a fan of the texture for the exterior work, but the inside wont be a problem. I'm excited to get back to work on mine, and hopefully have the final solution to end the water intrusion. I'm going to take a putty knife or brush and just coat every seam and rivet from the inside.

Fingers crossed!
Mic

Just FYI, pretty sure 116 is not approved for interior use.... I used trempro 635 to coat most of my seams .... Note that most adhesives specify a clean surface so if you really want to do this right you could clean off all that black sealant with Citrastrip. It's a big job tho....

[captmatt]

And one more vote for Capt. Tolley's! Used it for the last 5 years... time to get a new bottle. This stuff lasts if used correctly!

[Mixter]

Originally Posted by reinergirl

Just FYI, pretty sure 116 is not approved for interior use.... I used trempro 635 to coat most of my seams .... Note that most adhesives specify a clean surface so if you really want to do this right you could clean off all that black sealant with Citrastrip. It's a big job tho....

Isnt the 116 and 635 the same formula, only the 116 has the textured additive? Also, mine is 70's trailer so the factory interior sealant currently on the seams is the white butyl puty stuff. Once I figure out the "interior use" thing, I will do a test spot to see if smearing over it will be a bad move... I'm with you though- in that I really like the idea of cleaning off the old for proper adhesion to the actual seams and rivets, but.... as you said.... that is a HUGE job.

Now you got me thinking!

[reinergirl]

Finally found the thread

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f456...or-122016.html

[Airwave503]

Mic, I feel your pain. Just figuring out what products to use and finding them is like chasing unicorns! Seems like folks have had success sealing from the outside so I am going to hold on to that dream for now. I sure don't want to clean the black stuff off the inside!

For you guys that have had success with Capt. Tolley's...is it thicker than I am understanding? Cause even with a curved syringe, how is it not going to just dribble down the side? Most of my seams do not have big gaps along the rivets. What is the consistency of this stuff?

[dznf0g]

IMO, Tolley's is great for VEEERRRRY thin cracks, like rivet heads. I would use Acryl-R for the seams on the outside. Can't really help you with inside, other than clean off all the old stuff and get recommendation from some of the pros here.

Tolley's is thinner than water to achieve the capillary action.

[Airwave503]

Thanks Rich. What is the consistency of the Acryl-R?

[cwf]

Originally Posted by Airwave503

Thanks Rich. What is the consistency of the Acryl-R?

Hmmm... About like lite maple syrup at room (70 deg).. But not as thick. And it "wicks" fairly well in "wider" seams.

[dznf0g]

Thanks, Channing, I was having trouble thinking of a common fluid of the same consistency.

DON'T put it on your pancakes though!