Sealing exterior skin panels with Lizard Skin

[BB 55 Bubble]

I was rather excited about this product and was thinking that it could be used to prep the interior walls of the trailer and help smooth out some of the imperfections of the metal and help hide the rivets. It can do all of that but it would also seal the panels up and make future attempts to get into a section for what ever reason a true nightmare! So I scraped the idea of using the product all together until I was looking in the inside of the trailer contemplating how to up date the sealer that was used on the back side of the trailers exterior skin seams and rivets (See the attached pictures). It looks as if the original product was a sprayed on tar that has hardened over time and has begun to crack and deteriorate. This lizard skis is supposed to be as flexible as the POR-15, it is supposed to create a water tight seal. It can be sprayed on to any surface except steel (rust will form if not primed since it is a water based product). In addition to spraying it can be applied by brush or roller. The product wet weighs only 6 lbs for a 2 gallon bucket, as it dries it becomes lighter. It adds an insulation factor to the trailer reducing heat and noise. It is a ceramic product that offers a class A fire rating and is approved by the DOT for use in RV's. The cost is just under $200 for a 2 gallon bucket that covers 50 square feet at a thickness of 0.40 inches, steep I know, but if I can get several guys together on this I can get all of a 30% discount. The fire department I work for is considering using this on the fore wall of one of the rigs that we have been having trouble with heat transfer from the dog hose where the engine is in the cab. One of the dealers offered me this discount if I can round up some interested persons. I am in the process of getting some further technical information from the dealer rep of the company and will share that with everyone when I get it. I just requested the information this morning and he said it should only take a few days.

The link to the Web site is: http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/ceramic.php.
I first discussed the use of this product here at this link here in the Forums: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f46/paint-19052.html.

Let me know what you all think and if any one is interested in getting together for a group purchase, I need at least 10 people and the rep said that we could rent the spray gun from him so that we did not have to purchase the gun.
Thanks Beau

[BB 55 Bubble]

Could not spell the Rivet correct in the picture, just pretend I did.

[BB 55 Bubble]

Here is what I found out about the product. It has a R value of 13 when applied at its full thickness of 0.040 in. it can flex up to an 50% bend. It contains 80% solids so a 2 gallon bucket that is 6 lbs will lighten up by 20%, each 50sqft will add 4.8lbs.
That is what I know, any thoughts?
Beau

[Smuzz]

Hello, I had been thinking about using this some on mine. I work with hotrods for a living, and watched a demonstration on it this past summer. Seemed like a good product but I think it is a little pricey. I know a couple people that have used on cars but haven't got them finished enough to know if it is good. It did seem to have great flexabilty to me.

I may end up use a product from dynomat just because I have a ample supply left from previous projects. But I will have to see when I get that far along. I thing more people should look into this though.

[BB 55 Bubble]

I am sure that as time goes on more people will find out about this product and it will have a great reputation; just like POR-15 did when it first was available everyone was leery of a new product concept. If you want and it works with your timing I think the guy that I was going to get it from will sill give a discount for a group purchace.
Thanks for the reply
Beau

[BB 55 Bubble]

Since this idea went over like a fart in church, any other ideas. Is there a rubber coating that will not add too much weight? Where can I find the original tar tape that was used so I can remove the old and start new? What about the rivets what should I use on the backs of the rivets that I replace. Should I Vulkum the hell out of the entire thing? What style of Vulkum should I use? I know there is a product that I can use on the exterior that is an injectable liquid that is placed in-between panels still available, I can nt remember the name. What has every one used on that space between the interior skin and the exterior skin to stop the leaks, I KNOW they are there!
Beau

[Aerowood]

Sealing the skin from the inside is like putting the horse on the back off the cart. The best way is to keep the moisture from entering from the outside. Having moisture sitting inside the lap seam is B A D bad as it can cause corrosion inside the lap seam. Its alot more work to seal the seams properly by opening the seam appling sealent and then shooting the seams back together, but you will never ever have to worry about it again. This type of seal is called a faying surface seal and is absoluty the best way. After you get comfortable with all of your new sheet metal tools you should be able to do this quite easily. I'm going to do this on my Globetrotter after I get the new floors back down. I'm also going to install stringers on all the lap seams at the same time.

[Chaplain Kent]

Sounds like a good product to use on the inside metal cover of my dog house but too pricey. I like the fire retardant and sound preventative features.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Aerowood

I'm also going to install stringers on all the lap seams at the same time.

Don't all of the lap joints (except the endcaps) already have stringers?

[Aerowood]

Well I don't know for sure on the rest of the models and years but my 1971 globetrotter do not have any at all. I plan putting them on the end caps also.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Aerowood

Well I don't know for sure on the rest of the models and years but my 1971 globetrotter do not have any at all. I plan putting them on the end caps also.

I don't recall that any lap joints in mine that didn't coincide with a stringer or frame channel.

I think the end caps would be the most difficult to stringer, because of the curvature, but they are also the seams most likely to leak.

Good luck, i applaud your attention to detail.

[Aerowood]

I have shrinker and stretcher tools so it won't be all that bad. I just have to go down to my local aluminum dealer and find some .063 3/4" X 1" 6061-T-6 extrusion. Formed angle does'nt work as well as extrusion.

[BB 55 Bubble]

Aerowood:
My understanding is that you suggest that I remove all of the exterior panels one by one and seal the joints between the areas that the two adjoining panels overlap? Quite the job but if it is the best way I am all for it. Plus I can fix a few dents along the way. If you could do me a favor and look at the first post with the picture of the end cap... that is what it was original, should I remove all of the original tar on the seams and the rivet backs? Or should I just break the seam and not worry about it. Also what product to use to make the new seals?

Originally Posted by Aerowood

I'm also going to install stringers on all the lap seams at the same time.

Could you please explain?

[Aerowood]

Originally Posted by BB 55 Bubble

Aerowood:
My understanding is that you suggest that I remove all of the exterior panels one by one and seal the joints between the areas that the two adjoining panels overlap? Quite the job but if it is the best way I am all for it. Plus I can fix a few dents along the way. If you could do me a favor and look at the first post with the picture of the end cap... that is what it was original, should I remove all of the original tar on the seams and the rivet backs? Or should I just break the seam and not worry about it. Also what product to use to make the new seals?



Could you please explain?

No, I would not completly remove the panel all at one time, unless there are other compeling reasons to due so. What I am planning to do is to open one lap seam at a time, clean as needed, then inject sealent into that joint, and then rivet that seam back together and then continue with another. when you rivet the seam back togther leave the last few inches open to ease the cleaning of the next seam and so on. I see of no reason to clean off the tar looking stuff unless you want to, because you are sealing the inside of the seam. The sealents that I'm using, are called Pro Seal, or PRC 1436-B2 and 1432-B20. Its an aircraft sealent used for fuel tank sealing and pressure vessel sealing. I've been saving the out of date sealents that we can no longer use on our aircraft. It's very expensive and only available through aircraft parts suppliers and FBO;s. I,m not overly familiar with the sealents used by Airstream and others on this forum but I,m sure somebody will speak up and give good advice. I would also wait on this project untill you have the shell back on the frame to keep everthing properly lined up. Done properly, you should be able to put seam leaks behind you.

[godelad]

The pros at P&S trailer in Helena Ohio use the same product that the Airstream factory uses. It's a black tape material that might require you to separate the panels far enough to get it into place. I plan to use it (if I can get them to sell me some) for a lower panel replacement to fix a long scratch.I stopped there to get some advice on the fix and he showed me some. He said it was a relatively new product and swears by it. I have been searching for a tool to make a long straight cut in the new alluminum panel without distorting the edge. Any advice?

[Aerowood]

To cut aluminum I use a big hyd. shear at work, at home I use a angle (90 degree) die grinder with a .032 abrasive cutting disc fallowed by a vixon file followed by a 3M blue surface conditioning disc to deburr. I,ll take pics if you want.