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Old 12-28-2015, 07:39 AM   #1
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1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
Massive leaks and destruction

Hi all,

About a month ago I acquired a 1996 Airstream Cutter Motorhome. I paid vaguely below the lower end of book value. Before I bought it, I knocked and pounded on all the walls, looking for any soft spots. Everything seemed good.Here's what it looked like when I bought it:

This is what it looks like now:

After I got it home--it ran beautifully, by the way--I removed the sofa, intending to replace it, and there, behind the sofa, I was able to pull the wall apart with my fingers. I've now pulled out all of the wood and foam on the driver's side all the way back to the beginning of the kitchen. The rot continues beyond the edge of the kitchen.

When I knock on the wall, it still sounds solid. But the wood between the outer fiberglass skin and the styrofoam insulation is so rotted it falls apart in my fingers, as you can see below.

For anyone who doesn't know, the wall consists of: the outer, fiberglass skin, a thin layer of plywood (possibly luan), the aluminum frame an inch and a half thick with styrofoam between the frames, another layer of thin plywood, and the thin vinyl wallpaper.

So I need to remove the windows. Actually, with the walls scooped out, the windows are only being held in by the caulk between the outer flange and the fiberglass. Removing most of the windows are pretty straight-forward: just remove the inner screws from the frames and the window should just pop out (except for removing the caulk, of course). The issue is the driver's side window. Airstream removed the inner flange of the window frame ...

... and I can't tell what is holding the window frame to the structural frame. Possibly some kind of adhesive? and/or screws that I can't see? Don't know. I'm hesitant to remove this as I'm not sure how to get it back together. Does anyone know?

The other issue is all of the leaks. It's been raining quite a bit here lately (New Jersey), on and off, and with the walls gone, it's been easy to see the water inside. I stopped most of it that was coming in from behind the molding strip between the two windows where the fiberglass from the cab joins the fiberglass from the body. There was nothing but a thin bead of caulk covering the joint. And as you can see, the joint isn't even entirely covered.

That seam is open and had never been closed properly (Criminal almost.). Probably leaking from day one. This is on both the driver and passenger sides. I covered this temporarily with tape. (The window frames are covered just as a precaution since I've disturbed them so much. They didn't seem to be leaking at all.)

Most of the water stopped, but that's not the only leak, it's still leaking a little; with the original leak, I actually had a small river coming in. This is only a little compared to what it was. (It's not leaking through the tape. I checked it, and it's stuck really well, and it's only been on for a couple of days.) See the below picture:

Behind the upper, horizontal, aluminum frame is the aluminum track that joins the fiberglass roof with the fiberglass side and supports the awning. This track is riveted down with fairly large rivets. They're not pop-rivets and would need a special tool to replace. And removing this--well, the whole fiberglass side would then probably be supported by nothing but the window frames since who knows how much of the wood is rotted.

Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this seam? Of course I could just replace the caulk at the top of the track, but that seems pretty solid. (Why are such important aspects of an RV built in such crappy ways? No need to answer.)

Anyway, so it comes down to two issues (for now):
1) the cut window frame and how it is attached
2) that horrible leaking seam.


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Old 12-28-2015, 08:01 AM   #2
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Sorry to see your issues. Repost this down in the relevant Cutter section of the motorhome forum... I think it's a common problem and there are people down there who will have experience and advice!

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Old 12-28-2015, 08:12 AM   #3
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2004 25' Safari
High Springs , Florida
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Not to detract from your issues, just a little commiseration from a kindred soul. I bought a New Horizons fifth wheel with about the same amount of inspection and with about the same results. Since New Horizons were the best of the best in the fifth wheel world, and I did my type of inspection which has served me well over the years, I bought it. I put in a huge amount of time solving problems that would have never happened if the factory had only properly caulked some screw heads. But repair it I did and I had the trip of a lifetime in that old rig. I'd do it all again if given the chance. I hope your situation turns out as well.
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:54 AM   #4
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Vintage Kin Owner
North central , Florida
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Your problem is a perfect example of a po not doing yearly maintenance and inspection. Unfortunately you are paying for his incompetence. Weather it be a trailer or mh, checking for leaks, etc even if none are readily apparent is important. They all leak, you need to find that leak. I hope you can resolve your situation as you prefer. Good luck.
1984 Avion 30p 9.1 meter. 2006 Dodge 3500 cummins srw short bed crew cab.
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:34 AM   #5
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1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25

Hi all,

I just thought I'd update this.

First, I found how the front driver's side window is attached. It's so obvious to me now that I feel a little dumb. There are three screws through the inside of the window frame going into the structural frame. The're not too hard to reach, but it's a good guess that they'll snap off. I'll see soon enough.

I need to remove both the overhead cabinets above the driver and passenger and the entire dashboard. The window frame can't be removed without removing these.

I drew a line on the wall half-way between the kitchen and the back-end of the window, just about where the red line is in the below pic.

The wall at this point was dry and near impossible to peel away from the fiberglass, so it's the right place to stop and will give me a good seam between the old wall and the new.

And I just want to point the following out; the below picture shows the way Airstream constructed this motorhome:

What you're looking at between the two red lines is the inner wall plywood (again, probably luan) sandwiched between the steel frame of the chassis and the aluminum frame of the wall. What you see there is a little more dry and more difficult to get out than most of the rest of it (this is very close to the kitchen). The wood between the frames goes down an inch and a half, the thickness of the aluminum frame. A six foot section took me about three hours to clean out with those two wheeny tools.

I won't put wood between these metal parts again. Probably just shove some kind of hard plastic stripping or aluminum in there as a filler.

Why anyone would put thin plywood between two metal frames--well, that's a structural issue. That's bizarre.

Yes, I am replacing all the rotten plywood with wood again. But ... the leaks will be closed off properly, and the plywood will be laminated to the fiberglass skin with epoxy and completely encapsulated with epoxy. The surface area really isn't that big. Lots of windows.

(I'm very familiar with working on fiberglass boats, so this just seems like the logical and correct way to go.)

One unexpected thing is that the thinnest plywood I can find is still too thick. Lowes and Home Depot don't have it and can't get it. I'll probably have to order it special from another local lumber yard.

Just to make it more clear, I had cut the edge of the floor back about two inches to make my present job easier to get at. Doesnt' matter since the entire living room floor needs replacement. So far, I see no fasteners at all. I think, but I'm not sure, that the wood was glued to the frames.

At least some of the foam below the floor will have to be replaced. Seems styrofoam does deteriorate when wet. That which was really wet just crumbles in my hand.

From what I can see (not in the pictures), there are gaps, some at least a half inch, between the foam and the steel frame. I don't know if styrofoam shrinks in time or this is the way it was constructed. So much for insulation value. If I don't replace all the styrofoam, these gaps will be filled.

The rust isn't as bad as it looks. It's mostly surface rust and has already cleaned up quickly. When the floor comes up, all the metal will be cleaned up.

(One more thing. I did put a link to this into the Cutter Motorhome forum as suggested. Thanks.)

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Old 01-12-2016, 08:32 PM   #6
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1995 36' Land Yacht
Shawnigan Lake , British Columbia
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 13
I am so glad that you have posted. I saw your post and then lost it.
I have just about the same Cutter land Yacht but a 95.
I have had major leaks and have just about completely gutted the inside,
have taken out all of the overhead cupboards, all the benches etc.
My ceilings need to be re-done because the vinyl was coming away from the ceiling.

Most of my RV is in my living room, and I have just about given up....

We thought that we got all of the leaks, but the water still keeps coming in,
The walls on one side of the RV, the drivers side.... have all bubbled up and I have taken the wet boards off, I will be putting on new boards on the ceiling the walls and then will be re-papering the walls.

I am glad to have seen your post, it was a help...

signed..... Frustrated....
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:36 PM   #7
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1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25

Hi all,

Thought Iíd update this againósince work is moving slowly due to the cold weather. Epoxy and glue donít work too well when itís 20 degrees F. (Of course the RV is heated, but Iím working on an outside wall.)

Below you can see I removed the dashboard. As I said before, there was no other way to get the windows out. It took about two hours. Not too hard to take out, and I donít foresee much issue with putting it back.

I got away with not having to remove the overhead cabinets, as I thought I might. That was a big relief. There was only one screw in the window frame that was behind the cabinet, and it wasnít too difficult to remove. That was very welcome, because I couldnít find a screw anywhere thatís holding up the cabinet, and so I just donít know how itís attached.

The windows themselves came out pretty easily. Just remove all the interior screws on the frame, and it pops right out. The caulk pulled easily off the fiberglass with very little coaxing. Getting it off the frame is taking days. Itís a gooey, rubbery mess.

In a previous post, I said I didnít know how the driver and passenger windows were attached to the steel corner frame. Turns out there were three screws inside the tracks of the window frame going forward into the steel frame. Donít know how I missed them; seems so obvious now. I was afraid they would be rusted and would just snap off, but they all came out cleanly.

Hereís a picture just after having pulled out the side window. Look at that beautiful, clean cut made by Airstream. It looks like some drunk hacked it apart with a rusted saw. And yes, the window flange barely covered that mess. You can see the line.

Below is a picture after itís been somewhat cleaned up.

And that jaggedness isnít isolated. Look at the below picture. For some goofy reason, the sides and bottom were cut smoothly and correctly. The mess is just on the top. You knowówhere itís most importantÖ

The picture below is the leading edge of the driver-side window. You can see the narrow white line at the top-center where the caulk was. Canít see it below that. This corner was leaking badly, and one morning, I had a puddle of water on the floor.

Below is just a picture of how I have it sealed up after taking out the windows. Thatís six mil plastic; I think it will be fine.

In the picture below, the fiberglass on the left of the picture looks like wood. Thatís because, I think, during construction, the plywood was laid into the wet polyester resin in order to bond it together. So even though I scraped it plenty, thereís fine pieces of wood still stuck on the fiberglass.

Behind the vertical frame is the joint between the main fiberglass side and the fiberglass of the cab (this is above the driverís side window). I epoxied a strip of fiberglass tape over the entire joint. This, along with re-caulking the exterior joint, should stop the leaking.

The way I decided to rebuild may seem a little odd, but Iím doing the repair from the inside, so I need to work between the frames. I refuse to remove the entire exterior of the RV, even though that would be the proper way to do it. Itís just too big of a job and Iím not equipped for it.

Anyway, first I cut 1.5 inch strips of 1/8 inch plywood and encapsulated them in epoxy. Then, as seen below, each strip is being epoxied between the frame and the fiberglass siding. This bonds the siding back to the frame and the plywood acts as a spacer where the rotted plywood was scraped out.

Itís a little hard to see below, but what Iím also doing isóevery ten inches or soóis Iím epoxying in S-shaped pieces of fiberglass tapeóagainst the fiberglass skin, up the side of the aluminum frame, and then wrapped over the top of the frame. This will go a long way toward holding the skin onto the RV. This will be done along all frames.

These small tabs might not sound like enough. But remember, this RVís wood was completely rotted out for years, meaning nothing was holding the skin on except the window frames and the rivets along the top edge (described in my first post), and nothing happened, meaning, the skin stayed attached to the RV. So no matter what I do is still far more than had been in place for years. It will be fine.

It would seem that I should be attaching plywood to all the fiberglass to put it back as it originally was, not just the strips Iím using. But, first, again, getting epoxy to harden in this kind of weather is tough. Second, Iím not sure itís necessary. Iím guessing Airstream put wood between the foam and outer fiberglass skin because it was easy and fast to construct. Meaning, they could set the plywood directly on the uncured polyester resin and glue the foam to the wood all at the same time. But you canít put foam directly on the polyester; it would dissolve the foam. Also, setting flat sheets of anything against the fiberglass is going to take time because the fiberglass needs to be braced and pushed from the outside in order for the two sheets to seat flat against each other, and thatís a whole lot of work. I donít want to have to do it first with the plywood, then with the foam. All in all, I think itís best this way.

Iíll explain the next steps as I get to them. I have an idea of what Iím going to do, but I donít have it fully worked out yet. Hopefully, I can test what I want to do this weekend.

I just wanted to point this out: Look at the amount of paper tape below put on by Airstream. I did not find this unusual; it was everywhere. The inner plywood wall was bonded to the foam and aluminum frames with some kind of glue. But since the glue is holding the plywood to the tape, we can literally say that this motorhome is being held together by tapeódirect from the manufacturer (somewhat, anyway).

The wider metal at the top is galvanized steel. That surrounds all the windows, probably a stiffener.

And finally, for now, just a shot of the passenger side. Rot here too, though not as bad. I need to go higher up the wall; I donít know how high yet. But both windows will definitely come out and be resealed.

The engine cover is all fiberglass and well made (the rugís been stripped off). Reminds me of what Iíd see on a boat. At least something is done right on this RV.

As I said before, Iím used to boats, specifically sailboats. This is my first RV. And coming to RVs is a real eye opener. ďMostĒ sailboats are built tough: fiberglass, solid woods, and stainless steel. Even a 40 year old neglected boat can realistically be brought back to life. Itís a solid piece of machinery. While here Iím dealing with luan, tape, flakeboard and foam. And oh yeah, sh_tty workmanship. All for relatively the same price. WowÖ

(Yes, I know RVs and boats are different animals.)

Thanks for reading,

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Old 01-14-2016, 08:27 PM   #8
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1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
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Just reading this thread makes me queasy, and this is coming from a fellow Airstreamer with water issues.

Wishing you all the best, and better days ahead.

Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

ďItís a recession when your neighbor loses his job; itís a depression when you lose your own.Ē "Harry S Truman"
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:43 PM   #9
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1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
another update

Hi all,

Another short update.

The below picture is the seam between the fiberglass siding and the plastic fender. I removed some temporary duct tape and the gelcoat pulled right off, exposing unsaturated fiberglass threads. Another defect in workmanship. Not enough (or any) polyester resin during manufacture.

Itís not the only place. The below picture is only a couple of feet away.

Below you are looking at the bottom of the sidewall. Below that is the inside of a side storage compartment after removing the door. Do you know what that grey stuff is? Duct tape. I have no idea what its purpose was supposed to be, but I know its effect. When water gets behind itóand it willóit is trapped, which allows it to wick up into the exposed end of the luan and rot the wood.

Below is a clearer picture of how Iím reattaching the fiberglass wall to the framework. This is just before I put on more resin. If I donít put on more resin, I wind up with what Airstream did above.

The wall is almost completely reattached now. When done, in goes the foam insulation.

Below shows what I had to do to get some of the siding to lay flat against the aluminum frame before attaching it. This is just pushing against the siding.

I bought this motorhome ďAs-IsĒ from a dealer. I fully expected to have to do mechanical repairs and some cosmeticsólike put in new floors. I didnít know the walls were rotting out. If I did, I certainly wouldnít have bought it.

The RV dealer describes themselves as ďexpertsĒ. That means they knew the condition of this RV. And if they didnít know the condition of this RV, they canít describe themselves as experts.

I know legally they are not wrong. I also know that ethically, they are seriously wrong. They were looking for someone like me who didnít know RVs.

I know now that the bubbling sides are distinct signs of delamination. I didnít know it then. They did.

Anyway, my original plan was to buy a new utility trailer and build the interior myself. Instead, I bought this, thinking Iíd see how I liked a motorhome, and if I did, Iíd buy a better one later.

But now? Considering Airstream is supposed to be one of the better manufacturers, I guess there isnít much hope. The moment I finish repairing this motorhome properly, itís going up for sale. Iíll have lost some money and a lot of time. Iím going back to my original plan. Iíll build one myself.

The upside? I now have some ideas about what not to do when building. I now know that when I build, I build in a manner that will allow for accessibility if a leak develops. But I also know how much I need to guard against leaks in the first place.

I canít help but wonder why, after decades of building RVs, manufacturers canít seem to do any better.

As Tony above said, Iím queasy.

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Old 01-21-2016, 02:02 PM   #10
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1965 30' Sovereign
1969 23' Safari
Redgranite , Wisconsin
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 70
Wow, that's horrible. I'm not sure I'd have the patience to do what you are- good for you!
When you get to the plywood replacement are you familiar with alternatives like 3m reinforced Polyurethane, airex, iniboard, nylaboard or Coosaboard. I saw this fiber reinforced material in higher priced pontoon boats and contacted Coosa for a sample. It worked well in the rear 4' of my 65 Sovereign under the bath that had rotted. It doesn't hold the threads of screws when attaching cabinets but through bolting, blocking or riv nuts wil work. Stronger, lighter and no rot. It does cost more than marine grade though.
Good Luck To You!
Lots to do. Getting there.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:18 PM   #11
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1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,463
Coosa is the bomb and I was very lucky to find it. It is fantastic stuff.


As with anything, it really comes down to how it was cared for, BEFORE you buy it. As you probably well know; buying a used Honda or Toyota doesn't mean it will be a good reliable car and buying from any dealer these days, you're just buying someone elses nightmare.

That being said....don't give up on Airstream yet. The Classic motorhome, like what I own, are aluminum bodied; and while aluminum corrodes, they don't rot, except for the subfloor; which is, depending on the year, the only wood in the coach and can be fairly easily fixed, especially by a handy guy like yourself.

The great thing about a Classic is that you can find ones that have been babied in hangers all their lives and are in fantastic shape, or you can find basket cases, and everything in-between.

For someone of your expertise and ambition, owning a Classic would be very fulfilling and would appreciate in value over time. Plus we would love to have another skilled craftsman working on a Classic and posting helpful tips to everyone.

Our club of members is small, but devoted, very friendly and highly skilled like yourself. Introduce yourself and see what everyone sees in a Classic.

Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

ďItís a recession when your neighbor loses his job; itís a depression when you lose your own.Ē "Harry S Truman"
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:55 PM   #12
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1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 273
Gosh, after you finish fixing your Airstream you will have a well built motor home so it will be a good buy for the next owner! Maybe you should use it for a few years to amortize the effort and money you put into it? It is a shame how poorly almost all RV's are constructed. It seems that any that were well built were not economically competitive so the companies went out of business after a few years. At least that is how it looks to me. Keep up the good work anyway, I like to think that it builds karma for the planet and humans! Leland
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:19 PM   #13
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1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
Airstream's response

Hi all,

A while back I sent an email to Airstream asking them to look at this thread. Thatís all I said to them. I received a response about a week ago. The man who wrote it gave his name, but I donít think I should post it here. Anyway, hereís Airstreamís response:
Hi David,

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry to hear about your issues with your recently purchased 1996 Cutter Motorhome. I have looked at your pictures and unfortunately, it looks as if the previous owner(s) severely neglected their yearly maintenance routine. We constructed the vehicle in a way that was very common for fiberglass walled motorhomes in that time period. While we pride ourselves in making a superior product, we can only guarantee the initial quality of the motorhome against factory defects. After the owner takes possession of a vehicle, there is an expectation to maintain the vehicle. This includes yearly maintenance on the mechanical components, as well as inspection of sealant and resealing of seams, windows, and roof components. Even the most well-constructed vehicles and homes have to have yearly maintenance, if that isnít performed, especially over a number of years, you can see issues like the leaks and deterioration of materials you are experiencing with the í96 Cutter.

I would not simply dismiss this vehicle as ďoldĒ, but I do believe maintenance had been neglected over the years. Again, I apologize for the issues you are experiencing and hope you the best in your restoration of the Cutter. Thank you again for your email.

Airstream Customer Relations
There are three things that led to the deterioration of my motorhome:
  1. Some bad engineering
  2. Some really bad construction
  3. Lack of previous owner maintenance
Iím going to say right off that owner maintenance is the least that I feel concerned about. When someone buys a new motorhome for $150,000 or whatever, it is now his/hers. He can do with it what he wants. He owes nothing to anyone. Although, of course, Iíd like to see any machine well-cared for, thatís not really my business. If there had been leaks due ďonlyĒ to lack of owner maintenance, the issue would be different.
And I can ďalmostĒ forgive bad engineering, because I canít say I really know the progression of RV construction techniques over the years, so maybe it was commonplace amongst RV manufacturers to put luan between steel and aluminum framing. I just donít know. But itís still an obvious flaw even twenty years ago. Even fifty years ago.

I also guess that the implication is that Airstream designs better than they used to. I hope so.

But the thing that Airstream avoided in their response is their sub-standard construction, like the lack of caulk in the seam between the fiberglass body pieces and around the front window. I understand, of course, that windows and seams need to be resealed periodically, but do they really think an owner ought to have to remove windows in order to repair what Airstream failed to do? And how is routine owner maintenance supposed to deal with fiberglass that was jaggedly cut beyond any reasonable repair? Thatís not routine maintenance. Basically thatís saying that Airstream can build in any manner they like because itís ultimately the fault of the owner.

And so according to Airstreamís letter, apparently, the things I uncovered donít count as ďfactory defectsĒ.

Iím not mad about any of this. I hope Iím not actually sounding that way. Iím just saying. I didnít expect this project, but Iím enjoying it now.

An update on the rebuild is coming soon. One wall is almost complete. And now that I've rebuilt one, the other wall will go much faster.

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Old 02-10-2016, 05:58 PM   #14
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David - for me, as a guy with zero skills in DIY stuff (you clearly don't have that impediment) I really admire the work you've done to isolate and repair 20 years of damage to that motorhome.

Reading these threads, it's difficult to sense emotion - so when you say you're not angry - I'm just going to choose to believe you 😃

If it were me, I'd be livid.

But I do have to say, outside of the original warranty period by the factory, I can't imagine them even choosing to respond on a 20 year old product just recently purchased - let alone looking back to their construction process from the 1990s.

It's possible those years were flawed - seems like every season has something with it - like the Beatrice years in the 70s with thinner frames that couldn't support the weight of the trailer (penny wise/pound foolish indeed).

But the responsibility to maintain does lie with the previous owner - and you'd hope s/he would have taken advantage of the warranty period and some regular maintenance - if not to avoid these problems, perhaps to catch them early enough that they could have been addressed properly. And at the very least, is it asking too much for the dealer to have been more transparent with you??? 😡

At the end of the day - you've done an amazing job reversing decades of damage (whether from neglect, design, construction or some combination of all the above). You say you're having fun now - and again, I'm going to choose to believe you 😃 and wish you well! Hope to see you on the road some time enjoying that beautiful MH!!

Good luck!

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