Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-27-2016, 09:23 AM   #29
4 Rivet Member
 
israndy's Avatar

 
2005 39' Skydeck
Alameda , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 351
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 1
Did you sand the tank? How did you de-rust it? I have only light surface rust, do you think it's from the leaking of the floor that you got all the rust on your tank?

Click image for larger version

Name:	$_57.JPG
Views:	59
Size:	416.4 KB
ID:	259437

I was gonna wire brush it and Rustoleum it in place, mask off the rest of the area and let the paint fly. If I get some on the front of the basement area that might be good as it too is getting rusty. Probably use black on it through.

-Randy
__________________

__________________
2007 LTV Serenity beater 2005 Airstream SkyDeck
Also a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight, new 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible
And all electric: a 2012 Mitsubishi i-Miev and two 2007 Vectrix VX1 motorcycles, waiting in line for the Model ☰
israndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2016, 10:54 AM   #30
Rivet Puller
 
SeeMore's Avatar
 
2004 28' Safari S/O
Marietta , Georgia
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,113
Images: 3
My method for 'surface' rust -

Apply Naval Jelly, let sit for 5-10 minutes, wash off with water & nylon brush. If rust is still visible re-apply jelly and repeat. Once the rust is gone, prime and paint promptly - waiting a few hours will result in new rust almost immediately.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-1...3472/203009241
__________________

__________________
"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

Sirs Gawain & Galahad
Air #48582, S/SO #003, WBCCI #4584
SeeMore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2016, 12:23 AM   #31
4 Rivet Member
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 355
Wow, I really admire all you are going through to fix what the factory didn't do right. Just imagine what it would take if you hadn't bought a "quality" product! Maybe someday after you have some miles on your tight rig you could test drive a stock unit and compare how they feel going down the road. I'd bet your rebuilt camper will be noticeably quieter and feel more solid driving down the road. At least while sleeping through a rain storm in your motorhome you will know that it's not rotting out worse on the way home! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person that can get obsessive about fixing something right! I'm sure at least a few others on this forum know what you are going through! Keep up the good work!
__________________
ijustlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 07:03 AM   #32
2 Rivet Member
 
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
Hi Randy,
I can't really pin down why the tank rusted. Yes, the floor was leaking, holes right above the tank. But the compartment is also open to the road below, open to tire and road spray. Maybe it wasn't painted well enough to begin with. Just don't know.
About getting the rust off: Years ago I had bad reactions to all things chemical, so I stay away as much as I can. I use alcohol instead of Acetone or any other solvent almost always. My point is that I'm sure there are many chemical rust removers that work quite well and are faster than the way I do it--but I want to stay away from the chemicals.
So I just used a wire brush. As bad as my tank was rusted, it only took a couple of hours to clean it. But what I found is that a softer, stainless steel brush instead of the normal, hard steel wire bushes with the wood handles works much better. I can brush the rust with the hard brush, and yes, a lot of rust comes off. But when I brush it with the soft brush, it almost all comes off.
Anyway, probably not the best way, but that's what I do.
And about removing the tank: it was an advantage that I had to remove the floor--because pulling the tank up with a chain hoist was fairly easy. Getting it out any other way would be very hard, I think. My guess is that it weighs somewhere between 100-150 lbs. At least it felt that way given the awkward position. And I also found, at least on my RV, that if I lowered it to the ground (which would have been really hard to do if I didn't have access through the floor given that my bolts were behind the tank), it still wouldn't fit under the edge of the RV without jacking up the RV. So if you can do it in place, that, I think, would save you a lot of headache.
David
__________________
daa1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 08:21 AM   #33
4 Rivet Member
 
israndy's Avatar

 
2005 39' Skydeck
Alameda , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 351
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 1
All sage advice, thanks for it. I'll follow in your footsteps as I have the brushes already and a half used can of white. Hopefully that will be enough as I am mostly spot painting, but will get the overall at least a single coat. Thanks

-Randy
__________________
2007 LTV Serenity beater 2005 Airstream SkyDeck
Also a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight, new 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible
And all electric: a 2012 Mitsubishi i-Miev and two 2007 Vectrix VX1 motorcycles, waiting in line for the Model ☰
israndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 10:15 AM   #34
2 Rivet Member
 
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
update

Hi all,

Another update.

First, it took a while for me to continue to work on the passenger side wall because I had a leak I couldnít find. It was coming from up high, between the two windows, behind an aluminum frame. I didnít think it was from the roof itself since itís a fiberglass roof and looked pretty good. I thought it might be from the awning track, so I re-caulked the entire top edge of the track and re-caulked all of the rivets, but still the leak continued. I thought it might be the air-conditioner leaking with the water running down inside the ceiling (more on that below). Finally, after poking around, I realized that when someone installed the new awning and brackets, they used new holes and didnít bother to seal the old ones. The open holes were under the new bracket, so I never saw them. Anyway, I caulked them temporarily and the leak stopped. I think this needs a more permanent fix, but thatís for later.

The awning, by the way, along with the refrigerator cowling on the roof, are the only things I found on the entire RV that arenít original.



Below are the sheet metal pans I made for the floor. They fit very snug to minimize air movement.



And then the insulation. As in other places, itís cut a half inch shy of all edges which will be filled with spray foam. The sheet metal will also be riveted to the frames. Yes, the wood beams I added are bare, but remember, theyíre pressure treated and should be fine.



I had to replace the antennae crank below ($10 USD for what is probably a 25 cent plastic handle). Personally, I havenít turned on a TV in almost five years and donít even own one, but it sure looks better with a new handle.
But when I opened the cabinet door, I found it hits the handle. That might be why it broke. Airstreamís been designing RVs for decades, and they canít figure out a better place for the antennae?



Now for the air conditioner. I removed the inner plastic housing. Below is one of four bolts securing it to the roof. So far, so good. But Ö



Ö uh oh. What happened? Run out of long bolts?

ďWell, thatís OK. Weíll just put in a shorter one.Ē

ďBut it wonít be secured to the roof! Or compress the gasket to keep the air conditioner from leaking!Ē

ďSshh. Donít say anything. Just leave it. No one will notice until the warranty runs out.Ē

Is this not beyond belief?



The passenger side wall going in. The plywood in the left window, by the way, is just to keep the plastic from flapping around in the wind.



In goes the window.



Um, well, thatís a lot of space.



And another on the other side! (see below picture)

Well, yeah. Another screw-up by Airstream. And a lot more work for me. (I still keep thinking I canít find more problems, but I keep finding them.)

A little background: This window was leaking badly. It is right above the propane tank. You know, where the floor was rotted out, where even the sheet metal was rusted through, where the propane tank was all rustedÖ
And this window is the only repair work attempted by a previous owner that I found. I say ďattemptedĒ because, of course, the window was still leaking. But it had been taken out and completely resealed by someone. But it couldnít be done properly because the hole in the wall is JUST TOO BIG.

Here are the numbers:

Window frame: 22 3/8Ē (56.83cm) wide; 30 3/4Ē (78.1cm) high.
Hole: 21 ĺ (55.24cm) wide; 30Ē (76.2cm) high.

To put that in perspective, that means the frame is only 5/8Ē (1.58cm) wider than the hole and 3/4Ē (1.9cm) longer than the hole.

To put that in greater perspective, that means the window frame will only overlap the fiberglass skin by 5/16Ē (0.79cm) top and bottom and 3/8Ē (0.95cm) on both sides. Thatís not workable. Thatís why it was leaking.



I tried to make it work, but ruined the butyl tape twice. Hereís why (see the diagram; the flange is the curved part). Thereís just such a big gap that thereís nothing to hold the butyl tape in. And thatís assuming you can get the window perfectly centered in the hole, which is very difficult. I mean if the window is only 1/8Ē (0.31cm) off, then one edge of the window will have only a 3/16Ē (0.48cm) overlap. If you try to slide the window while trying to center it, the tape gets all fouled up. And even if you could place it correctly, how can anyone guarantee that this window will never move when the whole RV is rocking and rolling and twisting and shifting on down the road? They canít. It doesnít have to move much to develop a leak. Itís hopeless. Itís wrong. Itís inexcusable. Nice going Airstream. Buy a ruler, hire a guy with a steady hand and do some quality control.



Hereís the bottom left of the window opening. The wood you see is wood that I had put in previously to better support the window. Thatís going to help with trying to fix this.

(By the way, these are Hehr windows. I know nothing much about them, and I know nothing about other manufacturerís windows. But it couldnít hurt to put a much wider flange on the frames to give a lot more surface for caulk. My windows only have a 3/4Ē (1.9cm) flange. I mean, why not make it bigger? That could do nothing more than help solve a big problem area for RVs and the extra cost would be negligible.)



The below diagram shows whatís in my mind at this point. More epoxy coated wood, filling the gap, giving more surface area for the caulk. That, I think, will solve the problem (of course, the 1.5 x 1.5 wood is not to scale). I hope I only need to do this on two of the four window edgesówhere I have my existing 1.5 x 1.5s.

Doing this will, though, shift the window up and to the right. I may, then, need to make a new, inner wall panel. Weíll see.



I talked to RV dealers before I bought this one and I asked several of them why RVs fall apart and lose their value so quickly. They all seemed to tell me the same thing: because RVs are always driving down the road and bouncing around.

Really? I canít imagine a boat manufacturer or dealer blaming the ocean for a boat falling apart.

Just a curiosity: does anyone know if Airstream actually built the Cutter Motorhome? Or did they outsource it and just slap their name on it?

And just for the hell of it: a picture of me. No rot. No rust. No leaks.

Well, maybe a little surface rust.



David
__________________
daa1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 10:47 AM   #35
Rivet Master
 
mayco's Avatar

 
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign , Illinois
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,181
Your tenacity is amazing. Youre going to end up with a fine rig, keep calm and carry on.
__________________
mayco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 11:23 AM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Gsmblue's Avatar
 
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Bend , Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 522
Enjoying following your adventure here! Keep it up!
__________________
http://britishairstream.blogspot.com
Mad Astrophysicist turned sales guy that works to fund his dirty snowbaording habbit, mwah-ha-ha . . .
Gsmblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 09:32 AM   #37
2 Rivet Member
 
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
Late Update - more to come

Hi all,

Itís been a while, and Iím just playing catchup here. Iím actually much further along than what Iím showing today.

This is what I did to make the window frame smaller. It doesnít look too pretty, but the wood is encapsulated in epoxy and it does what it was meant to do: made the opening smaller. Now thereís more surface area for the window frame to catch.



The window is in and fitting tight. I have confidence in it now.



By the way. I found what seem like a good way to put in the butyl tape when reinstalling the windows. I let it hang over the edge by a small amount. It lets me know I have actually grabbed the edge of the frame as I meant to.



And finally, the front passenger window goes in. Now all the windows are back.



The day after I reinstalled the front window, it rained, and the frame was dripping. It was coming in right in through the joint itself. For now, I just taped it on the outside. Iíll deal with it another day.


Two days later, we had a lot more rain, and water was now coming in through the bottom track. It was coming down both sides of the RV in a stream from the awning tracks, overflowing the tiny holes where the water should drain, and coming inside. I know the holes are clear on both sides because I had the tracks themselves out of the frame and cleaned everything weeks ago. The drain holes were simply being overwhelmed.

I have not looked at other window designs, but this is how my Hehr windows are designed (sort of):



And so Iím thinking, couldnít they be designed as in the following diagram? With this, even broken seals will mean nothing. The window simply canít leak. This design would eliminate both of these leaks.



Next I started on the rest of the floors, and it was music to my eyes.



No rot! No moisture!



Just a little in the far left of the bedroom.



Which was quickly and easily replaced.



I later noticed the overhead above the dash sagging. I guess I never looked at it closely enough before. And so down it came. Full of rot and rust.



And so I replaced the wood and cleaned the rust and painted the steel. The vinyl was still in good condition and it looks good now.



This is under the bed. That ridiculous wire is common in this motorhome. Just hanging around. That wire should be cut to size, secured, and hidden as much as possible. It is now.



A mouse nest under the boxes built to hide the wires. Now that, Airstream, is how you insulate!



Iím thinking about writing a movie entitled ďHack Job with a Drill BitĒ, inspired by Airstream.

This receptacle was loose. I took it out to find out why. What a way to cut a hole--just hack it out with a drill bit.



The couple of times I lay down on the bed, it felt strangely uncomfortable, but I couldnít figure out why. Hereís why. The bottom half of the bed is 3/4 of an inch higher than the top half. Itís fixed now.



Under that platform below is the pass-through storage area. Itís half inch plywood and has absolutely no insulation on it. I put in an inch and a half of foam on the face. The top has added plywood (it was really weak), but thereís really no way to insulate better without raising the height of the entire bed.



Then, unfortunately, I found more water damage and so tore it apart. There was mold that I killed by spraying pure bleach. But it was actually not that wet. The foam under seemed dry and strong. The line you see under the window is where Iím going to cover it with Masonite.



This is inside of the removed corner cabinet. As bad as this looks, it was easy to cut out and not really that wet (This was the same on both sides of the motorhome). This was leaking from the outside molding between the back, fiberglass cap and the fiberglass siding. I had fixed the caulking months ago.



The other side.



This dumb little picture is under a side closet. That spec of light is looking outside. Itís about ĺĒ in diameter. Itís where pipes for the water heater pass through. What it really is is a doorway for mice. Itís closed up now with spray foam.



This opening is under the bed. Itís either a passageway for cold and hot air to come in, or another door for mice. I havenít decided.



This is an improperly taped solder joint. The wire that was soldered on isnít being used, and was just sitting there with its ends also exposed. There are lots of unused wires just hanging around this motorhome. I guess they wire for all options even if they arenít installed? Or do they use the same wiring harness for all models of motorhomes? Donít know. In either case, so much of the wiring was a mess. It's fixed now.



This is the new wood I put on top of the pass-through storage box. The small L-shape on the left is just a night table of sorts I added on both sides. (Now that it's done, I realize I could have made them a little bigger. They're really useful. Pictures will come on the next update.)



In the corner is unpainted Masonite to line Ö



Ö the cabinets. And notice I painted the walls. I read somewhere that you can prime using Glidden's Gripper, the same stuff I used to glue foam. It seems to work really well. Only time will tell. And I really like it. It's such a clean look without all the patterns. I wound up painting all the walls in the entire coach except for the kitchen area. Maybe later.


And like I said, Iím much further along than this. Actually, I'm near completion. Iíll update soon.

Thanks for reading,
David
__________________
daa1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 11:59 AM   #38
Rivet Master
 
Keyair's Avatar

 
1984 34.5' Airstream 345
Foothill Ranch , California
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,507
Images: 1
Nice work!

My opinion on your window frame...
We have the same issue on Classic motorhomes. Water flows down off the roof onto the sideglass, and if the drains are blocked, the water overflows to the inside and rots the floors.

My suggestion is to drill thru from the drain holes on the outside into that inner channel to allow water to flow between the two.
__________________
Keyair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2016, 11:22 PM   #39
4 Rivet Member
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 355
Yes, it's amazing how a lot of RV things such as your windows are made. I can never be sure if it's scrimping on materials or just not understanding the job to be done. I'd like to add drains to the back window channel on my trailer. You will have a very good motor home when you are done I hope you get a lot of use from it!
__________________
ijustlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2016, 10:02 AM   #40
4 Rivet Member
 
israndy's Avatar

 
2005 39' Skydeck
Alameda , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 351
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 1
I am at the stage where I put new wood in over the floor. What did you do about those bolt head?



I was thinking I would just notch out the wood so it doesn't conflict with the old bolts as I cannot figure out how to remove them...

Oh and my tank is MUCH rustier after scraping it off. I'll have to do the navel jelly trick. I actually used rust reformer from Rust Oleum on the Onan generator that was my previously most rusty thing.

-Randy
__________________
2007 LTV Serenity beater 2005 Airstream SkyDeck
Also a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight, new 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible
And all electric: a 2012 Mitsubishi i-Miev and two 2007 Vectrix VX1 motorcycles, waiting in line for the Model ☰
israndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2016, 10:29 AM   #41
2 Rivet Member
 
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville , New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 25
bolts

Hi Randy,
I cut those bolts off using an angle grinder. A dremel would work too. Then I replaced them with bolts that were lower profile, which means almost any bolt other than what is in the picture. Then I only had to cut out a small piece of wood to get the wood to seat properly.
If I had just notched around the existing bolts, they would still be above floor level, and since I put down tile, it could have been a problem. If you are to put down carpeting or even a finished wood floor (which can also be ground out a little), you should have no problem just keeping the existing bolts and just notching out the wood. But you would need to have a really tight fit, meaning the wood would want to go under the bolt to support it since it is a structural bolt.
David
__________________
daa1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2016, 03:53 PM   #42
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar

 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,784
David

By now you maybe wondering why a few Classic motorhome owners have been watching your work. It's because we appreciate all the effort and know-how that you have expended to get your coach up to snuff. If you ever decide to buy and restore a vintage Classic motorhome or Argosy I know the boys would be very happy to have you in the club.

That being said, although you don't own a Classic, I'd, and others, would like meet and shake your hand. It is not often that you run into a man of your talents.

Always watching and learning.
Cheers
Tony
__________________

__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

ďItís a recession when your neighbor loses his job; itís a depression when you lose your own.Ē "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leaks, leaks, and more leaks da_lizard Leaks - Weatherstrips, Gaskets, Caulks & Sealants 15 04-11-2016 11:36 AM
Massive Fresh Water Leak 1976 Sovereign LHC007 Plumbing - Systems & Fixtures 8 07-09-2014 04:01 PM
Looking for Local Specialist for massive renovation - S.F. Bay Area NomadKitchen General Repair Forum 8 07-23-2009 07:13 AM
Leaks, Leaks and more leaks Jim in Pima Leaks - Weatherstrips, Gaskets, Caulks & Sealants 5 12-12-2007 11:23 AM
leaks leaks leaks Globie64 Leaks - Weatherstrips, Gaskets, Caulks & Sealants 10 12-31-2005 05:49 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.