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glenamoy · 07-11-2010, 02:21 PM

My '07 Safari has a leak in the mitre joint in one of the panoramic windows in the rear. The window glass is surrounded by the usual frame in the form of a heavy aluminum strip, which bends around the curvy corners, but on the inside corners that strip has mitre joints. This is the part that failed, leading to huge floor rot. I bought that trailer new (it is just a few months out of warranty), and now the repair associate at our dealer (not the one where we purchased it) has shown us that it had leaked before purchase, and someone had tried (unsuccessfully, we now know) to seal it on the inside with sealant....so I had been sold a defective trailer. All this was hidden behind the curtains, in the part where the curtains are bunched up when pulled open (so not easily seen). We are seeking repair costs from A/S....that was a slipshod repair on a known defective window seal, and we should have been told about it at time of purchase. Even keeping the trailer under a roof, as we always have, the occasional rainstorm when on the road (or even the occasional wash) was enough to do a lot of damage.

The question for the forum is this. The mitre joint is a bad problem just waiting to happen on any trailer, we now know. I notice that the new 2010's on the lot all have aluminum welds across that mitre joint, eliminating the problem. Does anyone know when they factory started to make that change? Or did they just forget the weld on ours? It is worth checking on your own trailers if you have panoramic windows, BTW.

Thanks!

2airishuman · 07-11-2010, 03:18 PM

hi glen

1. it will take some time for owners WITH rear pano windows to report

on HOW WELL the pano windows/frames/sealant/gaskets...

hold up on the REAR of these streams.

with more vibration/movement/bouncing at the back

we MIGHT expect LEAKS to be more common on those windows, than FRONT panos.

2. the frame miter joints are NOT welded as i recall.

there is a TINY bead of SILVER SEALANT at those joints (acryl-r)

which WILL eventually need to be REDONE.

and probably sooner on the units with REAR panos (see #1)

3. are you SURE the 2010 have welding at those joints?

i suspect it's silver sealant (see #2)

4. sealant INSIDE at those joints AND all around the glass, is also very very common.

in fact they ALL have GRAYISH sealant on the inside of the panos...

sometimes it is applied VERY SLOPPY and looks like a REdo...

5. PROOF of past water leaking would be SIGNS of water intrusion, not a sloppy glop of sealant...

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenamoy

...We are seeking repair costs from A/S....that was a slipshod repair on a known defective window seal, and we should have been told about it at time of purchase...

6. yeah, well GOOD LUCK with that $ seeking...

they ALL have defects of some sort during production,

since each unit is UNIQUE and stuck together differently than the last 1 OR the next one...

and the 2 year warranty gives owners the TIME to find/provoke/fix or otherwise placate.
_________

7. looks like the unit also has a WET FLOOR PROBLEM and you are hoping some1 will pay for that too ?

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396...eak-56099.html
_________

while the TECH helping you with this may be sincere,

he/she also has a VESTED interest in the problem, blame, repair and payoff...
_________

post up some PHOTOS of the area

and we'll be better able to report if YOUR UNIT is...

any more slipshod than the rest of them...

cheers
2air'

ticki2 · 07-11-2010, 04:23 PM

One other thought , the sealant on the outside should be stoping the water , not the sealant on the inside . If the outside sealant fails but you don't see the leak because of inside sealant the water will go into the walls and who knows where , not a good thing .

glenamoy · 07-11-2010, 08:33 PM

Here is a 2010 mitre joint. Looks like aluminum welding to me. If anyone has any knowledge on when A/S started to do this, as opposed to using a sealant in a mitre crack (which looks quite a bit different) on their panoramic windows, I'd be grateful to hear it.

glenamoy · 07-11-2010, 08:37 PM

I guess I could be wrong on this, but it looks like a typical weld, with typical flow structures and all. I'd have to go back to poke it to see if it was sealant...but it doesn't at all look like the old sealant used on mine. All the panoramic windows on the 2010s I saw on the sales lot looked like this.

2airishuman · 07-11-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenamoy

Here is a 2010 mitre joint. Looks like aluminum welding to me...

certainly does LOOK like a weld. ((that's a front pano correct, not a rear??))

however the window framing is secured to the skin via the many rivets ALL around the perimeter...

right?

that joint is more about initial frame/glass matching than structural integrity after assembly.

my concern would be that over time these pano windows at the REAR will jiggle and loosen...

at either the frame/skin/glass junctions or someplace along the assembly.

and will NEED regular inspection and sealant, just like every other HOLE in the shell.

even at the FRONT they are known to occasionally or eventually leak.

and take heed of ticki2's point about sealing on the OUTSIDE to keep the INSIDEs dry.

cheers
2air'

on edit, how 'bout posting some PIX of your problem/leaky areas ???

maintguy62 · 07-23-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenamoy

Here is a 2010 mitre joint. Looks like aluminum welding to me. If anyone has any knowledge on when A/S started to do this, as opposed to using a sealant in a mitre crack (which looks quite a bit different) on their panoramic windows, I'd be grateful to hear it.

I recently started to remove my rug and found it wet in the front corner. I had left the trailer sit a few months with the windows open to keep it fresh inside. I noticed between the screen and glass is a C channel. The channel holds water (no drain holes) but where the bottom meets the sides there is no caulk. If the channel fills it will drain inside the wall. I also noticed with the outer windows closed (rock guards) the screen stays dry. The last drip I had noticed was on the inside of the screen which lead me to believe its the window frame or above. This is a 94 excella.

Gene · 07-23-2010, 10:01 PM

I have had repeated leaks front and rear. At the factory, they did extensive re-sealing on the rear panoramic window last fall and it hasn't leaked since. I don't think they did much on the front window (leaks come down under the window to the little table next to the front queen bed) and it started leaking again a month plus ago. I re-sealed the exterior around where the windows meet and above them and the leak got be be less, but didn't stop. But the other day, washing off parts of the Alaska Hwy off the exterior, a great deal of water hit that area and it didn't leak. Strange stuff goes on with windows.

Gene

dkottum · 07-23-2010, 11:28 PM

On our front pano windows, the window rock guard frame seals fit tight to the trailer along their bottom edge, but is open a bit at the top. This allows water to drain from above into the rock guard area, then (possibly) pool between the rock guard and the side pano window. A little water has seeped through the window frame on one side, but not much.

I'm thinking the rock guard must be refitted to be tight at the top, or open at the bottom. It is still under warranty.

Any others have this condition?

maintguy62 · 07-23-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I have had repeated leaks front and rear. At the factory, they did extensive re-sealing on the rear panoramic window last fall and it hasn't leaked since. I don't think they did much on the front window (leaks come down under the window to the little table next to the front queen bed) and it started leaking again a month plus ago. I re-sealed the exterior around where the windows meet and above them and the leak got be be less, but didn't stop. But the other day, washing off parts of the Alaska Hwy off the exterior, a great deal of water hit that area and it didn't leak. Strange stuff goes on with windows.

Gene

Gene I argee these windows look nice can be a real problem. The floor has no rot and is soild. I just noticed it this week. I did after this close the rock guard and it seems to have stopped. I'll look again in the am seen we just had a real heavy rain tonight.

maintguy62 · 07-25-2010, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I have had repeated leaks front and rear. At the factory, they did extensive re-sealing on the rear panoramic window last fall and it hasn't leaked since. I don't think they did much on the front window (leaks come down under the window to the little table next to the front queen bed) and it started leaking again a month plus ago. I re-sealed the exterior around where the windows meet and above them and the leak got be be less, but didn't stop. But the other day, washing off parts of the Alaska Hwy off the exterior, a great deal of water hit that area and it didn't leak. Strange stuff goes on with windows.

Gene

Gene I looked this am it was wet again in the front, so I looked at the sides also and noticed more minor leaks. I just rec. the kit for a dealer to seal the whole trailer. I'll start asap. I'm not sure of the prep work for this. The seams look tight and clean so should I just go over the old stuff? Do I try to remove old sealer or just the lose stuff?

Denis4x4 · 08-02-2010, 02:46 PM

I too have the same problem on my rear window. Caulked the quarter windows and no more leaks. I need to know if i should caulk the corners, the top of the hinge or what. The water pools up in the bottom of the frame and then comes through the screw holes.

Gene · 08-02-2010, 02:58 PM

We've a had a lot of rain since we came home 2 weeks ago and the mysterious front window leak has stopped—maybe it's all running down inside the wall so the floor can rot.

I just ordered the Acryl-r in the can with the applicator (cheaper from Airstream than Out of Doors Mart!). It'll put down a narrow bead for the hard to reach places where the front rock guards are and around places a tube style applicator can't easily reach. The screws for the rock guards go into the window with a large rubber washer to act as a shock absorber and spacer—that's a hard place to get sealant. I seal everything because who knows where it gets in?

At JC, they took out the rear center window inside cover out and put large gobs of sealant in spaces all around the window frame. That one hasn't leaked since. I might have to do that with the front window.

Gene

Bluto · 08-02-2010, 04:08 PM

Gene is this the same problem you had when you were in Alaska?
If so, did you remove all the sealant you applied on the window frame while on the road? Maybe your seal job was holding it's own?

Gene · 08-02-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluto

Gene is this the same problem you had when you were in Alaska?
If so, did you remove all the sealant you applied on the window frame while on the road? Maybe your seal job was holding it's own?

I haven't removed the black Sikaflex (still don't know why I have black except that maybe they sent the wrong one instead of grey) and am not looking forward to it. I have no idea why it stopped leaking. Could hotter temps cause the Sikaflex to expand or run slightly and seal a pinhole? I doubt it. Could the aluminum expand enough to close a pinhole? It may be we are now further from the magnetic poles or that rain evaporates quicker in this dry climate (do not ask me to explain this sentence as it is the product of an unhinged mind).

I haven't looked into how to remove the Sikaflex and am concerned I'll just create more leaks. The area cannot be seen unless you open the rock guards, so I don't care what it looks like. When I get the new sealer, I'll start another coat and eventually the black will be the filling in a sealant sandwich.

Gene

Bluto · 08-02-2010, 04:37 PM

Well, something happened, so you may not be so unhinged as you think.
Although, a leak of any kind can cause a person to go off the deep end and it might just be a matter of time. We'll have to keep a close eye on you.
Hope the combination (sandwich) does the trick!

whitsend · 08-02-2010, 09:24 PM

Gene - I was told just today by an AS tech that removing Sikaflex was a real serious pain, in that it makes one heck of an adheasive seal. Please do let us know how your experience turns out.

palmtreegirl · 08-26-2012, 04:55 PM

Gene, did you get this problem straightened out? I'm considering purchasing an 07 Safari SE LS FB 25'. The owner is bringing it from TX to OH for me to inspect and decide next week. He is positive I'll love it and purchase.

Gene · 08-26-2012, 05:17 PM

I never have removed the black Sikaflex, but the leak hasn't returned, and no one can see it, so all is well.

Palm', something may leak on the Safari you are interested in, and if it doesn't leak now, it will sometime, somewhere. Get out the garden hose and spray it down and look for leaks.

Check around the awning arm supports (4 of them) to see if they have been re-sealed. If they haven't, you may have a leak under the vinyl and/or carpet because they leak easily. Look for water tracks in the dust on the inner walls (fairly easy to see if you have the aluminum interior) including in the cabinets and behind drawers. Look for cracks in the skylight and around the fan housing. Walk around everywhere to check on soft spots in the floor.

Maybe someone near you will inspect the trailer so you won't be overwhelmed. This is the nicest guy in the world to bring the trailer to you, or he has reason to really, really want to get rid of it. Check it over thoroughly. Make sure he has a valid title and registration. If he said where he lives, Google him and the address and confirm it. Sorry to be so distrustful, but Airstreams do get stolen. Check his ID against the documents and run a check on the plate number when he arrives.

Gene

bunlacken · 04-08-2017, 07:27 AM

having purchased a 1986 limited last November (2016) and reading what about leak discussions I decided to completely re-calk the unit. I was happy with what I had done, replaced bad floor etc but always in the back of my mind water damage so I stopped at Foley RV just off rt10 in Missippi and had it pressure tested. they pressurize it and spray soapy water on seams and rivets ($150.00) we found 4 more spots that needed calking, so after 2 months out traveling had to use CAPTAIN TOLLEY'S Crack Cure Sealant on a few rivets but otherwise no leaks. I'm happy!