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MDSilverado · 11-02-2009, 11:02 AM

This thread came just in time. I am gutting the entire interior of my newly purchased 77' Sovereign (rear twin bed). I check the floor pretty good before buying and found the subfloor to be plywood and to be in pretty good shape. The only rot is in the last 8" of the rear of the trailer. Knowing we had a rain storm coming I caulked up that rear outside of the trailer(lights, windows, ...) and was dismayed to find the area wet again yesterday. I hadn’t even thought of the water seeping in from the bumper. I will caulk that area good before the next rain.

Question # 1...if the subfloor in that rear is exposed to the bumper, when I replace the rear 8" of subfloor can I somehow slide the new piece in from the outside of the trailer under the base-rail?

Question # 2...I assume the horizontal trims that run around the back side of the trailer should NOT be caulked. Correct? The water should be allowed to flow under those? I assume at least one of those is hiding a seam between the upper and lower exterior skins AND the upper skin is lapped over the lower. Correct?

Thanks all...

2airishuman · 11-02-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDSilverado

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]This thread came just in time. I am gutting the entire interior of my newly purchased 77' Sovereign (rear twin bed)....

hi md'

there are MANY threads on partial subfloor or COMPLETE subfloor replacement...

many of those threads have great photos and how2tricks...

basically the replaced section go in from the INSIDE, typically fit into a channel

and in SOME cases the SHELL is take OFF to do floors.

once you've removed some of the rotted ply, FRAME RUST can be evaluated.

typically there are MULTIPLE issues to address

and like an iceberg, MOST of the hazards are BELOW the surface...
_______________

FINDING the water entry point is not always simple.

yes the outer doors or trim can leak, but so can the frame/shell connection or the ROOF or WINDOWS...

and the water migrates to the back end.
_______________

so spend a LOT of time reading the resto' threads focus on 70s units and the floor/rot threads for that era...

here is a recent/partial floor replacement with some really good photos...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...oor-54952.html

but there are 100s of similar stories in the big silver city...

cheers
2air'

Gkiesel · 11-02-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDSilverado

This thread came just in time. I am gutting the entire interior of my newly purchased 77' Sovereign (rear twin bed). I check the floor pretty good before buying and found the subfloor to be plywood and to be in pretty good shape. The only rot is in the last 8" of the rear of the trailer. Knowing we had a rain storm coming I caulked up that rear outside of the trailer(lights, windows, ...) and was dismayed to find the area wet again yesterday. I hadn’t even thought of the water seeping in from the bumper. I will caulk that area good before the next rain.

Question # 1...if the subfloor in that rear is exposed to the bumper, when I replace the rear 8" of subfloor can I somehow slide the new piece in from the outside of the trailer under the base-rail?

Question # 2...I assume the horizontal trims that run around the back side of the trailer should NOT be caulked. Correct? The water should be allowed to flow under those? I assume at least one of those is hiding a seam between the upper and lower exterior skins AND the upper skin is lapped over the lower. Correct?

Thanks all...

MD, The trim around the mid section of the trailer is really just cosmetic. I took mine off to make sure and found a couple of empty rivet holes from the factory. I used parbond to seal the top of that trim just to keep dirt from getting behind there. The bottom trim, rubrail, hides the seam between the shell and the banana wrap on the bottom. The upper skin is actually lapped under the banana wrap. Not good. So I removed all the trim and used a bead of vulkem where the two lapped. Then I replaced the trim and used parbond on the top of the trim to keep dirt from getting in there. Only the older, (60's and before), trailers lapped the shell over the banana wrap I believe. George.

MrRivet · 11-02-2009, 06:30 PM

I just replaced the trunk door seal on our 2004 28' International today and have been chasing a leak that is keeping the floor wet in this area. I have been resealing seams above this area thinking that was where the water was coming from. I did not even think about water coming in at the the horizontal seam at the bumper. Guess I will be resealing that area next. Does anyone have any suggestions on drying out the subfloor under the vinyl flooring?

Robbie R. · 11-02-2009, 06:55 PM

This is a shame.

In the above post I also spoke to soon. I found a small leak and mine is exactly where everyone elses is........bumper.

MrRivet, will your vinyl flooring come up easily ?

If not, you might want to consider taking it up any way and use a fan for a few days.

If you don''t it may not ever dry well.

I have plywood and mine does not seem too bad but was wet a few inches inside the storage area.

All because water is running in at the bumper.

I removed all carpet, opened my rear hatch and let a big fan blow for several days.

I plan to caulk the whole bumper seam area and then try to figure out how to cover my whole bumper since it runs all the way across the rear and is plastic covered that is degrading a bit.

I thought about that silver tread plate stuff but don't know if the make it in sheets that long..........and then there would be the problem of sealing under the edge of it.........and how to cut a curve like that.

I just found some rubberized coating that I may try to get to paint on the rear bumper. Comes in excella blue too......

http://www.ecosafetyproducts.com/Rub...-6010-100f.htm

Robbie R.

TankerIP · 11-04-2009, 06:21 PM

The trailer is all gutted and ready to be fixed. I'm glad we have gone this far. These Jackson Center guys really know what they are doing. Too bad I didn't stop this leak a few years back.

Emerson75 · 06-15-2010, 08:12 AM

What have others used to seal the top of the rub rail? I was thinking about using Parbond, rather than the heavier Vulkem. I've never used Parbond though so I'm not sure which would be the better choice.

Thanks,
Eric

Roadrunner · 06-15-2010, 08:34 AM

I would use Parbond on the rub rail. It has a tendency to be sucked into the joint space and will give you a finer bead. The Vulkem seems to be stiffer and leave a much larger bead. Like others, I would seal between the bumper and body with the Vulkem. Go slow with the Parbond as it is a mess! But does seem to hold up well.

Bob
TAC PA-5

Emerson75 · 06-15-2010, 08:38 AM

Thanks Bob!

Do I need to have anything on hand to help deal with the mess of the Parbond? Will I need anything to clean up areas that get touched, or is there decent "working time" where it can be just wiped off?

Bluto · 06-16-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerson77

Thanks Bob!

Do I need to have anything on hand to help deal with the mess of the Parbond? Will I need anything to clean up areas that get touched, or is there decent "working time" where it can be just wiped off?

Check this out:
Out Of Doors Mart has a video you can download off their site that answers all your questions about applying Parbond and type of clean up stuff needed.

Gkiesel · 06-16-2010, 07:39 PM

That's a good video. If you need anything from Out of Doors Mart contact Dan Brown. I've bought alot of stuff from them and he is really good people. George

Roadrunner · 06-16-2010, 08:31 PM

My own experience with Parbond is that it is very difficult to clean up...if you get too much Parbond on and try to wipe it off you have a mess and will leave residue on the trailer. I have started to use blue painters tape above the rub rail and apply several light applications rather than one big bead. Keep tip at about a 45 degree angle to the trailer. Slow and steady is the goal.

Bob
TAC PA-5

Emerson75 · 06-16-2010, 09:07 PM

Thanks to everyone for all the tips. I'm going to tackle the Parbond sealing around the rear rub rail, the rub rail just to the right of the door (the floor gets wet right inside the door when it rains hard), and around the fresh water inlet door in the next few days. I'll probably pickup a bottle of alcohol based cleaner for cleanup if needed.

Also, thanks for the tip on the ODM videos. I had not seen them before and they are quite helpful and informative.

Thanks again,
Eric

TankerIP · 06-17-2010, 06:24 AM

I'm still thinking about the leak I had at the rear bumper. I wish I had been able to see what the construction looked like behind the rub rail so I could understand how the water was getting in.
Some folks were telling me I had to take the rub rail off to see what was behind there. Sealing the rub rail will help, if you are sure that is the course of the water. Other folks cautioned that if I did too good a job I might find I was sealing water in that would normally have dripped out

About your door leak.... I had damaged floor right at the side of the door that I didn't know about. Turns out the Airstream guys decided it was caused by the way the frig was mounted. It needed to be tilted slightly so that water would drain out from the compartment instead of in. Water could collect in storm with the right kind of wind and eventually get in to the interior adjacent to the door. I thought that was unusual.

Bluto · 06-24-2010, 02:41 PM

I have been reading threads like these with great interest and want to prevent any water leaking in anywhere, but now especially at the rear bumper area.
Looking at the trailers that have had this problem I didn't notice any with the wrap around bumper that has the drawer in it. Since the wrap around bumper is a different design, is there also a problem with the way they are sealed too?
You guys that have the wrap around, do you see any problems with water around the bumper area getting inside the trailer?

2airishuman · 06-24-2010, 02:53 PM

the classics have a different bumper and plastic ledge above it.

but the subfloor, C channel, panel overlap, rub rail assembly and materials are the same as the other major models.

so the potential for water intrusion exists at the bumper.

in addition there are many threads on older classics that have have subfloor damage/replacement from water...

AT the rear bumper/storage door.
________

short of REMOVING the rub rail and inspecting,

there is no way to determine IF the assembly is correct or vulnerable to water intrusion.

water can/does POOL outside on the bumper ledge with rain or washing.

when that happens i try to remove the standing water as much as possible.

and AFTER rain or prolonged water exposure,

i inspect INSIDE the rear storage bay that extends under the bed along the floor/wall junction...

basically LOOKING and FEELING for water inside at the perimeter.

inspecting INSIDE for water will be different on rear dinette/lounge models but the concept is the same.

cheers
2air'

Bluto · 06-24-2010, 03:09 PM

Thanks 2Air. I'll do the same for now and just be vigilant to the 10th degree!

wbrownrr · 09-01-2010, 09:40 PM

Yikes! I'm digging into this to see if we have a problem.

TankerIP · 09-02-2010, 01:16 PM

Wayne: --- let us know what you see and what you find out. My problem on the '02 AS was that the bumper leak caused the installed carpet under my cabinets to get soaked. The carpet and foam just sat there for days/weeks rotting the floor with no way to dry out. I never saw it happening -- and probably neither did the previous owner.

I'm wondering what you are seeing back there.

nsteel · 09-02-2010, 11:25 PM

I have a leak somewhere and it may be the bumper area. Back a couple of years ago i tracked down the leak to the panoramic windows leaking. I sealed them up and it seemed like everything was dry. We are now about 4000 miles into a trip and a hard rain two nights ago and some items were wet under the storage seat. While poking around under the dinette table the floor now feels spongy. just after we bought it i noticed an area on the linoleum was darker and I just figured it was dirty. When I could never clean it today I found out it was mold/mildew under it all along against the wall. We won't be able to go to Jackson center until the end of the year after our trip> Should I just run a bead between the plastic bumper cover and the bottom of the molding? The molding top seams sealed OK but the water does pool up on top of the bumper and there are spaces under it and no sealer. I couldn't imagine that goes directly to the plywood on the floor? Am I understanding that correctly that it does? I wish we had a cross section drawing...